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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:55 am 
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I've been getting lots of helpful advice and have been writing all sorts of people...thank you one and all. I keep digging deeper and deeper so now I'll just throw this out here and see how many tapering advice stories I can come up with. I want to hear it all, the good, the bad and the ugly. Please! Especially trying to find out how long between drops and how slow. She is 6 days in... freshly new..... and has went from 12 to 10 to 8 and holding....I think thats a pretty good start, on the low side and she feels good so far. She says she feel normal. Not high, not depressed...so bring on those stories. Thankyou!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Hey Momofteenaddict, how are things going?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:38 pm 
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Things seem to be going good, I just wrote a long reply in Very Interested. My girl is just finished week two and has dropped to 2 mg without any trouble. Now I plan to slow down her drops and take it real easy. She is in counseling and is OK with it after the first initial scare. She plans to hang in there. I know the going may get tough now as we drop slowly and eventually I plan to use the water taper method. I am gonna drop her nice, slow and easy and see how her body takes it. I am very encouraged that she has dropped so easily and so quickly and I HOPE the rest of her drop does just as well. I have explained to her in great detail and in ways that she can understand just what might take place as she gets below the 2 mg mark. She has her plan set in order and has shit canned many friends and seems still to be very very determined. So i am keeping my fingers crossed and praying like crazy. I'll keep you posted. Thankyou!! Linda


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:58 pm 
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Thanks Bob,
How would you suggest I taper her now that I have her down to 2? Any and all advice is needed and welcome.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:44 pm 
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First alternate 1mg one day and 2mg the next for a few days, then when she feels ok with that go to 1mg every day. That worked better for me than just going from 2 straight to 1.

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:47 pm 
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Which ever way you choose to go about it I know in my experience nothing has ever made me want to use more than withdrawals. I would really suggest going as slow as humanly possible I haven't met anyone who had success with a fast taper. You might use Diary's water taper method where you dissolve a 8mg tablet 10ml of water so that every ml will contain .8mg of bupe I think that's the way she's doing it might check to be sure and if you haven't checked out her blog yet there's a link on the Suboxtalkzone main page where there's more detailed info on tapering. Have you talked to your daughter about getting a schedule of daily meetings for her to go to for one of the 12-step programs during the tapering process and after? I know from my experiences trying to stay clean before I started Sub it took daily meetings, many hours of service work, and remaining willing to do anything in order to stay clean 24/7 and even after all of that there were days I still wanted to use so bad it physically hurt. I wish you guys much success :) I hope you're prepared for all the change that needs to occur in order to stay clean without Sub.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:34 am 
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yeah I sure hope she is prepared also for what it is gonna take. yes I have talked and talked to her about it and have explained it in detail in terms that she can understand. I do have her in drug counseling and he and I have talked also and I have told him her weak areas. I feel she underestimates it but she listens carefully when I tell her that it will take a long time for her brain to rewire. She says she is through with all opiates forever and ever, and of course I want to believe it. But it remains to be seen, we will see how she does when I drop her low low and slow. It could be that she will have to stay on the sub longer and will she have terrible cravings and withdraw?? We will see. I tell myself that perhaps her short term heavy use may make it easier for her to walk away but she sure did like her drugs. I am still gonna take its low and probably will use the water taper method because it will be a low dose and I can buy some more time. She would throw them away and jump right now but NO WAY am I gonna allow that. When and if she gets bad I believe she will go to meetings as well as her counseling because she is determined to not let this drug consume her young life. So, for now I am watching and waiting and praying. Thanks guys I would be lost without all this support.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:47 pm 
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I think I haven't taken the correct dosages of Suboxone. Ive been on pain killers for about 10yrs but for the last yr it has gotten out of control. I was taking 300-400mg of Roxi's a day and was just like everyone else on here...."SICK OF IT"!!!! I took 4mgs of the Suboxone twice a day for about 1 week and then did half that for probably 2 days, then 2 more days just at night. Its been 2 1/2 weeks clean now but I'm having some serious anxiety/depression (pretty bad most days then not) and I can't take it anymore. After reading some on this thread I really thing I didn't use the Suboxone properly. How bout this. LOL for the first 3 days (which are the hardest) I just took the pill and swallowed it with some water.... didn't know ya had to let it dissolve under your tongue. Weird thing is I didn't feel any major side effects like cold turkey. Except for the depression mainly and some cold sweats. SOOOOOO my main question is whats up with this depression? Do I start the Suboxone again if so.. how long, how much, the proper way to taperer.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:50 pm 
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I think I haven't taken the correct dosages of Suboxone. Ive been on pain killers for about 10yrs but for the last yr it has gotten out of control. I was taking 300-400mg of Roxi's a day and was just like everyone else on here...."SICK OF IT"!!!! I took 4mgs of the Suboxone twice a day for about 1 week and then did half that for probably 2 days, then 2 more days just at night. Its been 2 1/2 weeks clean now but I'm having some serious anxiety/depression (pretty bad most days then not) and I can't take it anymore. After reading some on this thread I really thing I didn't use the Suboxone properly. How bout this. LOL for the first 3 days (which are the hardest) I just took the pill and swallowed it with some water.... didn't know ya had to let it dissolve under your tongue. Weird thing is I didn't feel any major side effects like cold turkey. Except for the depression mainly and some cold sweats. SOOOOOO my main question is whats up with this depression? Do I start the Suboxone again if so.. how long, how much, the proper way to taperer.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:01 am 
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Depression and anxiety can be a lingering side-effect of opiate abuse. It's called PAWS, or post-acute withdrawal syndrome. Basically the lingering crappy feeling that you have after the worst of the withdrawal sickness has passed.

If you think you might return to abusing painkillers, then Suboxone might be a good option for you. You can take it for a while and during that time you can learn new coping skills and figure out why you became addicted and how to not go there again. Suboxone's a tool, but you have to do the other work too.

You could also try to treat your depression and anxiety in other ways. There are medications, therapy, exercise, meditation - whatever works. I will say that for me, Sub was a great antidepressant. I took it for almost 2 years and just finished my taper 2 weeks ago. So far, I haven't felt the soul-killing depression that drove me back to the pills so many times before. So I think the time on Sub was time well spent - though I was in therapy and working on my recovery in other ways the whole time.

Most importantly, don't leave your depression untreated - it's a huge relapse trigger, as well as a miserable way to be. There's no reason you should have to feel so bad when there's all kinds of help out there.

Thanks for sharing your story, welcome to the forum, and let us know how it goes.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:54 pm 
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Diary of a Quitter... Thanks for your reply. I started taking 4mg once a day of SUB the day after posting on this form and the depression and anxiety went away immediately! Yesterday I started my tapering (2mg once a day) and so far so good. I'll do the 2mg for a week and a half the go down to 1mg for the same amount of time and see how it goes. Its been almost one mth clean and it feel awesome!!!!! I don't really have any urges to do pain killers. And hows this for will power...... I've had over 8,000mg of Oxi in my possession this whole time.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:07 pm 
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SWIM was worried that something could happen to his beloved 9 year old dog and that he wouldnt have the money he needed for an operation or whatever for her thanks to the hundreds of dollars that he had spent in almost a year on subutex at 4mg twice a day. His heart couldn't stand the thought and so he thought about tapering and worked out a plan to follow but then for some reason SWIM decided that he wanted the thrill of an abrupt stop. SWIM wanted to feel it all so he just stopped the subutex flat. But before stopping opiods for good SWIM decided that he wanted to have a little party of one for a few days first. SWIM took morphine sulphate by IM injection for two days. The vials stated a strength of 4mg per ml and he would do 3 to 4 ml at a time whenever he felt he wanted more he took more. Then for two days SWIM administered oxycodone (pure - no apap) 5mg tablets crushed and snorted - (SWIM thinks that the stupidist thing in the world is to ever shoot pills). SWIM followed normal dosing guidelines of 5mg every 4 to 6 hours for two days. Then SWIM threw everything away so he wouldnt be tempted and went to sleep. SWIM had once stopped heroin cold turkey years ago after using for a year and he knew the hell that he would soon find himself in so he wanted to catch some zzzzzs while he still could. SWIM woke up after 4 hours and felt great. After 30 days, SWIM says there has not been any withdrawal at all except for a slightly runny nose that is somewhat normal for SWIM due to allergies and the incredible back pain has returned which is what caused SWIM to get addicted to morphine in the first place. This just totally amazes SWIM and he says that he is certainly not advising anyone to do what he did but somehow he feels that the jumping off on to two completely different short-half-life angonists tricked SWIM's brain into thinking he had no physical dependency on opiates.

Has anyone else experienced this very strange phenomonon? Also so far SWIM has had no depression, anxiety, or dark moods. SWIM does worry about the long term though because on subutex he felt better than he ever had in his life which leads him to believe that his CNS does not produce enough serotonin or whatever. We'll see and I will keep posting the long term results SWIM has experienced. So hang in there....it doesnt have to be all bad!

Denny


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Response To kevinClean

When I first started on Suboxone I was OK withdrawal wise but I did have headaches and terrible depression so I checked out different sites and found out that naloxone sensitive individuals can experience both depression and headaches that can be severe. Also, and I know this sounds like a joke, I am sort of a health nut, and I didn't want all of the artificial coloring and flavoring that they put into suboxone so I asked my doctor to switch me to subutex. He at first he said he wouldnt do it and so I told him I would find a different doctor so he switched me. I am kind of a con artist which is how I got a different doctor to let me self treat my chronic back pain with injectable morphine sulfate which is about as easy to get as weapons grade plutonium.

Anyway, the subutex was a million times better than the suboxone - no headaches or depression. The down side is that it is a lot more expensive where I live - about $8 per 8mg pill as opposed to $6 per 8/2mg pill. But oh well who is counting at this point. Right?

Good luck kC


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 Post subject: Response to Daydreamer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:45 pm 
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Thank for sharing your story.

I loved the part when you said, " I am kind of a con artist which is how I got a different doctor to let me self treat my chronic back pain with injectable morphine sulfate which is about as easy to get as weapons grade plutonium". It made me laugh. Of corse not the fact that you were on morp or your back pain but the reference was awesome.

These friggin Doctors are all about the $$$$$. Of corse he would change your meds where you threatened to spend your hard earned money elsewhere. I'm happy to here the subutex is working well for you and I hope you make it through.........


I'm actually doing pretty good on the Suboxone now. I'm down to 2mgs a day with now headaches or depression and hope to be completely finished in at the most 2 weeks. I've been clean for 1 mth and 1 day so far and it feels awesome. I embrace my leg pain....... much better then that feeling of guilt and the, what the fuck am I doing with my life feeling every morning. Also don't have to worry about my eyes constantly closing around my friends. They thought I was the most tired person in the world.

.


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