It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:44 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:46 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:30 pm
Posts: 7
My wife has been on methadone for many years as I've been on suboxone. We just moved to a new place where there are no methadone clinics that will take her because we both take xanax (That we're trying to get off of). She's decided to switch to subs and I've decided to help her. I have A LOT of extra subs. I'm prescribed 8/2 strips (Far more than I use and plenty for both of us).

She was prescribed 50mg methadone. Since we've been here she got it down to 40, then 30, then 20, then 15. It's my intention to induce her. Her last dose of methadone was almost 4 day ago. I have a large bottle of vicodin. Ever since she stopped her methadone I've been giving her vicodin and cylcobenzaprine (A muscle relaxer) to ease her symptoms while the methadone leaves her body. My reasoning is that once the methadone leaves her body, transitioning from hydrocodone to suboxone will be far easier.

My dilemma is: After how much time of taking hydrocodone should she be cut off? I'm not sure how long it will take for the methadone to leave her. I hear varying reports on the Internet from 48 hours to 2 weeks. Once she stops taking the hydro I can follow the COWS scale and induce her at a small dose of sub but I'd rather the methadone be gone before beginning that step. I'm trying to make it as painless for her as possible. I've gone through pwd before and don't want her to.

Any advice (Besides telling us to go to a doctor) is welcome and greatly appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:48 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
Hi Shivers,

What you are asking is illegal and is what gives Suboxone a bad name. Yes, your intentions are very good and I know you mean no harm and only to help your wife. So please don't take this the wrong way.

Your tapering down to 20 mgs is a smart move. Using Vicodin sounds good but we still can't endorse it for obvious reasons. And even if going to a doctor was a viable option for you, they would require you both to be off of the Xanax. How do you get it from your doctor if you're on Suboxone? Some do prescribe it but most do not. That's not my call anyway, it's your business.

My suggestion is to read up on posts in the Methadone section and look for transitioning to Suboxone. Considering I've not been in your shoes I'm not qualified to give you an answer. Maybe one of our resident doctors will chime in with the right information.

I do wish you luck on getting off the Xanax so you can both just use Suboxone for your recovery tool. It is just that your method is not the recommended way so let's hope we can get you on the right path to recovery.

If you can't find what you're looking for I will try to find it for you and post it here.

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:19 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:30 pm
Posts: 7
rule62 wrote:
Hi Shivers,

What you are asking is illegal and is what gives Suboxone a bad name. Yes, your intentions are very good and I know you mean no harm and only to help your wife. So please don't take this the wrong way.

Your tapering down to 20 mgs is a smart move. Using Vicodin sounds good but we still can't endorse it for obvious reasons. And even if going to a doctor was a viable option for you, they would require you both to be off of the Xanax. How do you get it from your doctor if you're on Suboxone? Some do prescribe it but most do not. That's not my call anyway, it's your business.

My suggestion is to read up on posts in the Methadone section and look for transitioning to Suboxone. Considering I've not been in your shoes I'm not qualified to give you an answer. Maybe one of our resident doctors will chime in with the right information.

I do wish you luck on getting off the Xanax so you can both just use Suboxone for your recovery tool. It is just that your method is not the recommended way so let's hope we can get you on the right path to recovery.

If you can't find what you're looking for I will try to find it for you and post it here.

rule


I really don't see that anything I'm doing is giving suboxone a bad name. It's helping someone who needs it. As for xanax, both her previous methadone clinic and my current one (As well as my previous three clinics) have no problem with patients trying to get off of benzos. The methadone clinic where we're at now does. Our xanax dosage is very low now as our clinics have always pressured us to taper off; however, the final leap off of benzos is very difficult and even dangerous. No advice regarding that is required though. We have to get off of one thing at a time.

She could go to my suboxone clinic for induction but as I said, I get prescribed a lot more than I need (I tapered myself down long ago) and the clinic I go to is akin to a price gouging drug dealer. I pay the same amount of money there no matter how much they prescribe me. Giving sub a bad name would be selling my stack of strips to people which is something I do not do.

I've read though quite a few number of threads here and found many people doing things similar to what I have her doing. I suppose I could have lied and said I was the one inducing. It doesn't immediately occur to me to lie about everything. Anyway, I'm not asking anyone to tell me what to do. Surely it isn't illegal or in bad conscience for people to tell me what they'd do if it were them taking the meds, what similar things they have done, or for a doctor to tell me what he'd recommend for a patient in similar circumstance.

What I'm not clear on is the time it takes for methadone to leave the body. There's a big difference between 2 days and 2 weeks. I know I can safely transition her. I just can't have her going though the pain of doing it too soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:17 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 132
Shivers,

I have never been on methadone. My DOC was hydrocodone and I only stopped about 10 hours prior to induction. I was concerned that I was not in enough withdrawal but watery eyes and elevated blood pressure indicated enough withdrawal. I was instructed to take 4 mg and report back to the doctors office in 2 hours. When I returned I had no symptoms of withdrawal remaining and felt 100 % normal. I understand that it takes longer to stabilize with the recent use of methadone. Good luck. I also suggest that your wife be treated by a doctor. I can see so many possible problems otherwise. Jean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:31 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2300
Location: Tennessee
Hey Shivers I truly respect u looking out for ur partner and the fact that ur trying to do anything possible to keep her out of pw is understood. The switch from methadone to suboxone is probably the trickiest but ppl do do it successfully.

I know u have a stockpile but I really think u should get ur partner to go to ur clinic. That way she's safely treated without any guessing plus she'll have a legal script, see what I'm saying? And u may need that stockpile someday for urself..... anything could happen.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:44 am 
Offline
One Month or More
One Month or More

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:49 am
Posts: 34
Can liquid taper work for Xanax? I know it's not sublingual, but as a method of reducing dosage?

Hey Shivers don't let any responses here get under your skin. Keep posting. It'll help. And good luck, I agree your goal is noble.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:35 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
Hey shivers, yet another country heard from :D (me)

I'm not going to tell you to see a doctor because it seems you've firmly ruled that out. Ocourse that's the best advice, to see one, but to tell you the truth, there's so much good information out there...and here...if you take the time to look for it. Induction procedures vary from doctor to doctor in the specifics. If your wife makes sure she's good and sick, she'll very likely do fine.

I've read at least 4 days off Methadone. That's 96 hours I believe. All to the good, you've got your wife tapered down to 20 mg.s (well you wife did the work, so I should say your wife tapered herself down. :D

On short acting opiates they usually say 12 tp 24 hours. Or mild to moderate WD. That always kind of got to me because there's a pretty big difference between the two, and I greatly prefer the mild option it should go without saying, but better to be safe and get yourself pretty sick first.

As you know switching from Methadone to subs can be difficult. But people do it often. I've seen 3 or 4 it seems to me in the ten or so weeks I've been on the forum. And they did fine, sometimes after a rocky week or two.

Wishing you and your wife the best.

Godfrey

P.S> Somehow missed the xanax on first reading of your post. Way to of my depth there. I'm pretty sure
Dr. Junig says the danger of a benzo and sub combination is greatly exaggerated. But I'm just some anonymous forum rat pretending to know something. So if were me, I'd research that thoroughly first.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:10 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
Hey Shivers,

Glad you didn't take my answer the wrong way. Remember, I'm a moderator and can only give legal and time proven recovery advice. We try to mirror what our owner of this site would say.

No, you're not giving Suboxone a bad name by keeping it between the two of you. And yes, many have done exactly what you have done, so no, it's not a bad thing. Totally understandable. If the situation was reversed I'd probably do the same thing.

Smart move with the Xanax. You know more about it so deal with that demon when the time is right.

Were you able to find threads about Methadone to Suboxone in that section or not? Just ask, and I'll dig around for you and post the link here to make it easier. We want you both to be successful in the transition and also to become regular members. If you can both manage to switch over then your knowledge will be highly regarded here for others in your shoes. First, we need to get you both on Suboxone and in recovery mode. That is what this forum is for. Recovery.

Let us know what you find out.

r

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:42 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:30 pm
Posts: 7
Thank for the comments.

Alright, I think it's close to induction time. I had her on Vicodin and Cyclobenzaprine for almost 6 days. She stopped taking the Vicodin at 3:30AM yesterday morning. It's now 8:30PM the next day. She's no longer experiencing severe withdrawal from Methadone but is very uncomfortable, has cramping, racing thoughts, anxiety, yawns, etc.

I don't want to give her subs too soon. I'm wondering if 24 hours should be enough time off of Vicodin regardless of where she's at on the COWS scale at 3:30AM. 5-6 days of Vicodin isn't that long.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:48 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
Hey shivers, glad to see you back. I'm not a doctor. But I think most would tell you to trust COWS rather than time. Well into moderate to be safer. Have you tallied her current score?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:12 pm 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:01 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Mid-Atlantic
what are you both taking the xanax for?
my doctor is set against anyone taking benzos with subs. I don't know what he bases that on.
Could you take another medication for anxiety? maybe Lexapro?

good luck. how is it going?

_________________
Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:27 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:30 pm
Posts: 7
It's been over 24 hours now. Not sure if I should do it yet. Her symptoms appear to be to the same degree that they've been since she stopped taking Vicodin (Mild to moderate). You never hear of anyone waiting longer than 24 hours for Vicodin though. She's scoring 18 on the COWS scale.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:43 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
Probably OK. Of course you have to use your own judgment. I waited 31 hours, but not as sick as your wife.
I did have a couple hours PW. Then it took a few days to get past the RLS etc...

Best wishes,
G.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:07 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:30 pm
Posts: 7
godfrey wrote:
Probably OK. Of course you have to use your own judgment. I waited 31 hours, but not as sick as your wife.
I did have a couple hours PW. Then it took a few days to get past the RLS etc...

Best wishes,
G.


Thanks. Judging by the wd she's experienced over the past 24 hours, I decided to induce her. I gave her 1MG and waited a bit. No difference. Then, about 2MG around 17 mins ago. Trying to cover her receptors.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:19 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:30 pm
Posts: 7
I've now increased her initial dosage to 8mg total, the largest piece of strip she's taken yet. Will report back how she feels soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:34 am 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:01 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Shivers wrote:
I've now increased her initial dosage to 8mg total, the largest piece of strip she's taken yet. Will report back how she feels soon.

tell her we're all rooting for her! she's almost there!
remember warm baths and showers help and immodium and even some chocolate. climb under an electric blanket and watch a funny movie with her.

_________________
Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:24 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
Hey Shivers,

Don't leave us in suspense! There are a lot of people rooting for you guys as SisterM says.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:29 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2300
Location: Tennessee
Even if someone experiences pw, they just keep dosing their prescribed dose of suboxone and the pw will eventually go away. Some ppl don't understand that and go bk to using, but the buprenorphine will take over and they'll be feeling better as time passes.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:47 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:34 pm
Posts: 614
jennjenn wrote:
Even if someone experiences pw, they just keep dosing their prescribed dose of suboxone and the pw will eventually go away. Some ppl don't understand that and go bk to using, but the buprenorphine will take over and they'll be feeling better as time passes.


Exactly right. I just want to add that if you're trying to do things right and waiting an appropriate amount of
time, the PW shouldn't be all that hellish...and you're obviously doing that. I was very afraid of it....as many are....because I thought it was always....almost by definition....the most extreme WD possible. I'd say I went....on a scale from 1 to 10...from a discomfort level of 5 to maybe 7-8. It was bad, but I wasn't in agony or anything like that. The things that happened to me in the space of a couple minutes were much increased heart rate, sudden attack of runs, and major (and I mean major) restless legs. I dealt with it by pacing around the house because sitting still was impossible, even for a second or two.

I wasn't even sure I was in PW because it wasn't the agony I'd imagined, but now I realize I was. The sudden increase in intensity was classic.

After about 2 hours I was suddenly about 50 percent better. Then better each day. BY 4th day I was very good shape. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:40 pm 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:01 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Mid-Atlantic
godfrey wrote:
Hey Shivers,

Don't leave us in suspense! There are a lot of people rooting for you guys as SisterM says.

right? no updates? grrr hope it is going ok.

_________________
Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group