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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:01 am 
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First off, let me start by saying I have never used drugs, rarely drank, and never smoked cigarettes even. I am however married to an addict. He explained to me all his adventures during college(heroin, opiates, weed, cocaine) when we met. Even confessed to smoking weed on occasion. We married after dating 4 years in 2008. 4 months later, I came home sick from work one day to find a bloody cotton ball in my toilet and 2 syringes on the back of the toilet(i would always leave before him come home after him) This was the beginning to finding all the truth about his drug use and how he was an addict when we met and abused daily(had no clue since I was never around it) After a rough 3 days of withdrawl he survived about 15 months clean, I got pregnant(planned) and everything was great. When my daughter was 2 months old, he started taking oxy to "control his anger", umm whatever! I however didnt find out until I overheard him telling his friend about scoring pills. I confronted him...he went through 4 days of crazy hell withdrawl only to relapse 3 months later and continue for 9 more months! This time I knew, I searched the whole house up and down for pills, etc..found nothing. We went on a beach trip for a week and on the way home he kept nodding out(said he was tired) I reached over to grab his hand which was near his pocket to feel pills..I ask he gets all crazy, accusing me of all kinds of stuff, not believing in him. However, I was right...not only was he using, he had started treatment. No he didnt tell me about it, he got caught and thought he would get clean without me knowing. Again, overheard him telling his WHOLE family about him going to treatment, confronted him. He confesses. Fast forward to now...I think he gets a high from them to be honest. He takes 2 1/2 strips a day and has for 4 months. It's like he is obsessed with taking them at a certain time, kinda brags in a happy way that its time for his script. Our realtionship SUCKS to say the least. He is emotionless, he is grumpy, an ass and very negative. He loses his temper with me and the kids too many times to count. SEX is non existent and he is always hanging/talking to his former addict friends. I know he is clean from opiates because he has to test at home and at group/individual sessions. Yesterday, a former supplier to him died..heart stopped. He was more concerned over this damn prostitute/dealer than his family. He stayed on the phone with numerous people talking about it for hours almost like she was his girlfriend, etc. I am soo upset over all of this and I am really ready to just pack my kids up and leave and to top it off I am washing clothes and find a crap load of weed floating all in my washer this morning. I am tired...Please HELP me understand and give me advice. I love him, but not his addiction.
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:49 am 
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Suboxone is a GREAT tool to lift the desire to use opioids. The one thing that Suboxone does not do in and of itself is change all the other behaviors that go along with active addiction. There is a saying in recovery communities that in order to stay clean one needs to "change everything," and one thing they are talking about old connections to active addict life, in his case it sounds like friends he is still hanging on to might be one of these issues. If it was I and my GF were in the same situation you described with your guy, I would have a conversation with them and simply be honest. I would say that I have been doing some research on opioid addiction, opioid replacement therapy and recovery and that many of the behaviors that you are showing are not conducive to an addict in recovery, but seem to be closer to someone still in active addiction. I would explain that the actual use of drugs is a small part of addiction, it's all the socially/morally inappropriate behaviors that really get us in the end in terms of us losing/destroying things...It's the drugs themselves or suicide that do us in in terms of us dying prematurely.

Suboxone is an opioid, albeit a partial-agonist. The only way I can foresee him 'getting high' off it alone is if he is not taking it as prescribed i.e. on a regular schedule or combining it with Alcohol, benzodiazepines or other prescription or illicit drugs. In order to get high off the Suboxone itself, he would have to go through Suboxone withdrawal for a few days then resume taking it to 'catch a buzz.' I don't hear you saying that is happening and I highly doubt that would be the case as not many addicts are going to be willing to put up with that. At the dose he is on, his receptors should be adequately saturated all the times and there should be no 'up and down' or highs and lows as with other opioids.

Is he involved in any other types of therapy be they Narcotics Anonymous meetings, SMART recovery, actual clinical therapy, Addiction Counseling or anything else. I don't believe that everyone needs counseling to go along with Suboxone treatment as the drugs manufacturer does, but it sounds like in this case having a professional who can sit down with him face to face with both him and you (if he's receptive to that) could be beneficial.

All the best,
Travis

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:25 pm 
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HI ,,,, glad you found us. Im gonna put up some links for you,
with more information on how suboxone "works"

But just like Travis said, its definitely NOT a 'cure-all'............. An addict still needs to do many other things to clean up the mess they've (usually) made.
I saw an addiction therapist for about six months, Im still in marrige counseling, I go to suboxone support groups, ETC.

The only thing you can really do is either support him, and try to help. you probably have already learned you cant do it for him, LOL

OR, like you said, pack up the kids and leave. I know it sounds like a terrible option, but to tell you the absolute truth I didnt get my 'shit together' until my husband forbid me from seeing my son, and staying in the house until I was ready to 'do something' about myself. Well, it still took me a couple days, but hey,,, he had been dealing with my miserable ass for ten years.
So, Im not sure what my point was there, Im just saying sometimes it takes something VERY dramatic to get us to really 'see' ourselves. Addicts get REALLY good at lying/decieving/all that stuff, and after awhile, I think you start to even believe your own bullshit.

I wish you the very best in whatever you decide.
Please do read up on suboxone, and how its used, how it really is a good tool, it is pretty abuse proof compared to anything else. In my opinion anyways.
have you thought about any AL-ANON type programs for family member/spouses of addicts?? I know theres alot out there, and even some resources online. It might help you to know your not alone in your struggles.
heres those links.................

http://suboxonetalkzone.com/ceilings/ (explains how buprenorphine doesnt provide 'euphoria')

http://suboxonetalkzone.com/why-do-some ... enorphine/ (how long people should be on suboxone)

http://suboxonetalkzone.com/clean-enough-2/ (making suboxone "work")


well, I hope I helped. Please dont hesitate to ask anymore questions if you have them.
I really do wish you (and the kids) the best.

and sometimes, not often, but SOMETIMES, we DO get our 'shit' together, and stay on the wagon.
i'll have 17 months, on suboxone Friday.

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anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:57 am 
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You are not alone because as addicts we usually leave a trail of human carnage in our wakes and the people we hurt the most are the people who are closest to us.

The situation you are in is almost the same that my now ex-girlfriend and I went through; however, my addiction never let me save up enough money to buy a ring, let alone pay for a wedding. Yet, while I read your story all I could do was hear her voice as if she was writing it, so I though I might try to shed some light from the other side for you.

We were together for just over 5 years and almost from the very beginning I was using pills. For 5 years, 4 ½ of which we lived together, I hid this horrible secret from her by any means necessary. Lying was something I was already good at, but by the time the end came I was so good sometimes I even fooled myself into believing it. Lies were made up to backup other lies and the lies before that, and each lie added to the anxiety and stress I felt as I continually chased that illusive high that was as good as the my first. Lying became such a natural process that sometimes I would lie when there was no reason to lie; however, once you tell a lie you can’t let anyone know it’s a lie because then they will suspect you’re possibly lying about other things, which at this point would lead to self-destruction.

There comes a point in every addict’s life when everything they do is centered on using and at this point the addictive brain goes into survival mode, which means do whatever necessary to continue using no matter who you hurt. I personally thought that my lies were protecting the one person I loved more than anything on this earth and the only person I was hurting by using was me, but that couldn’t have been farther from the truth. I realize now that this self-centered thought process was my addiction doing everything it could to survive by rationalizing even the most ridiculous and irrational thoughts and behaviors.

The longer we remain addicted, the more this self-centered addictive thinking becomes the only way we know how to live, the more difficult it becomes to changes this way of thinking when we finally decide that we have had enough; however, without some sort of recovery program geared toward changing the way we think, an addict is more likely to return to doing what they do best, being an addict.

This is where suboxone (subs), when used in the correct manner, can help tremendously. For many people on subs it helps to keep away withdrawal symptoms, reduce, if not eliminate, cravings, as well as block the effects of opioids that an addict is seeking, giving them the opportunity to work on their recovery. Subs do not equal recovery; however, subs combined with a recovery program that includes, but not limited to: intensive outpatient programs, one-on-one therapy/counseling, group therapy, NA/AA, relapse prevention therapy, couples therapy, physical fitness/wellbeing, spiritual renewal, etc., can help an addict break the cycle of addiction by allowing them to not only find helpful and productive ways of coping with the stress and anxiety of everyday life, not to mention the void left by their addiction, as well as develop a strong, loving, and reliable support system. I personally believe that the more tools you have in your toolbox, the more likely you are going to have the right one when a problem arises, and in the case of addiction knowledge of your self, your disease, and your options are your tools.

For some people though subs are seen as a magic cure for addiction, and they go about their lives as best they can, but they don’t really fix any of the problems or issues that caused them to use in the first place. They not only still hang out with the same people at the same places as well as continue the same self-centered thinking that got them in this mess in the first place, but think because they have stopped using their drug of choice that they are somehow able to control their use of other drugs. Cross addiction is real, and filling the void left by your DOC with something else is only starting the cycle of addiction in motion once again. Don’t get me wrong, there are some people out there who are able to make this approach work for them, but from what I have learned the odds are greatly stacked against them.

The best advice I can give you is to sit him down and ask him what his recovery plan is. Do you know that he goes to group/individual sessions for sure? Ask if you could go come to an individual session, or if he could allow you to talk with his treating physician or psychiatrist as well as his counselors. Try to become involved but beware that there is a fine line between supportive and enabling, which is why seeing a counselor or therapist by yourself might help. Also try to understand that old habits die hard but one thing I have learned about change is that you have to recognize what needs to be changed in order to change it, so maybe talk to him about how you feel (couples therapy may help).

Overall, it is important that you do what is best for you and your kids. I know that I am going to get jumped on about this cause I can’t site my source, but children who grow up in homes where active addiction is prevalent are more likely to become addicts themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:04 am 
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12step2-24 wrote:
Overall, it is important that you do what is best for you and your kids. I know that I am going to get jumped on about this cause I can’t site my source, but children who grow up in homes where active addiction is prevalent are more likely to become addicts themselves.


http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2 ... ction.html Link to some facts....I agree wholeheartedly that cchildren who grow up in an environment where a parent or both parents are in active addiction, are more likely to become addicts themselves.

[font=Comic Sans MS]Hello there, I read this post a few times yesterday and then again this morning to see what others had to say. I really do feel for you and your situation. You've already gotten some great feedback from some great members. I only would like to add my OPINION.

I personally think that judging from the sound of your post alone, that you should leave. Those kids are the most important thing in my opinion only. They deserve to grow up in a house/home that is free of active addiction. The steps that your partner needs to take to correct his life, are numerous. And he needs to focus on that. It doesn't sound to me like he is. He is still hanging around with people who are in active addiction, and wasting his time on mourning their problems. I'm not saying that a death isn't a sad thing, but really, why is he so upset over this? How personal was this relationship to him? Or was it just a connection that he is moruning. I don't want to sound like an asshole, but you have got to look out for those children and yourself. You three are the most important people right now.

When one parent drops the ball and stops doing what they are responsible to do for their children, the other parent has to pick up the slack. Fair? No. Necessary? Yes. I had to do it. My son's father is an addict. Besides that, he is a selfish, ignorant, passive aggressive, manipulating piece of garbage. And that's aside from the addiction. Even if he wasn't an addict, he would still be the other things. He is looking for someone to mooch off of, and when he realized that I was no longer going to enable him, give him money, pay ALL the bills, while he sat on his high as a kite ass, he moved on. He tried for a few weeks to convince me to help him out, or front him money, or whatever, and when I didn't, he said he wasn't interested in hearing about his son anymore. He was only using him as a means to mainpulate me into feeling sorry for him. When that didn't work anymore, he moved on. And I am so much happier for it.

I guess what I am trying to say, is you have to look out for them. They cannot do it for themselves. If they could, I can almost guarantee that they would rather be in a home with a happy healthy parent, then the one they are in. Do you have any family that can help you out? Maybe put a roof over your heads until you can do it yourself?

I'm not saying that this is what you have to do in order to make him get better. That may not even be enough. I lost custody of my daughters, and I STILL didn't get clean. Everyone's bottom is different. But you DO NOT have to hang out and wait for him to reach his, and possibly drag you and the kids down with him. It's only a matter of time before someone reports you and the childrens living situation to Department of Children and Youth, or whatever its called where you live. I had it done. It is not fun, and they are not playing around. They will take those kids if they think that they are in danger. And living with an actively using addict puts them in danger. I'm not trying to scare you, just make you aware of just how serious this can get.

If you need anything, or want to talk to someone who has been in your shoes, Feel free to PM me anytime you would like. I will do anything I can to help you and your children. I really do care, and want nothing but the best for all of you. Good luck to you, and I hope that you are able to find some answers. [/font]

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:18 pm 
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12step2-24 wrote:
You are not alone because as addicts we usually leave a trail of human carnage in our wakes and the people we hurt the most are the people who are closest to us.

The situation you are in is almost the same that my now ex-girlfriend and I went through; however, my addiction never let me save up enough money to buy a ring, let alone pay for a wedding. Yet, while I read your story all I could do was hear her voice as if she was writing it, so I though I might try to shed some light from the other side for you.

We were together for just over 5 years and almost from the very beginning I was using pills. For 5 years, 4 ½ of which we lived together, I hid this horrible secret from her by any means necessary. Lying was something I was already good at, but by the time the end came I was so good sometimes I even fooled myself into believing it. Lies were made up to backup other lies and the lies before that, and each lie added to the anxiety and stress I felt as I continually chased that illusive high that was as good as the my first. Lying became such a natural process that sometimes I would lie when there was no reason to lie; however, once you tell a lie you can’t let anyone know it’s a lie because then they will suspect you’re possibly lying about other things, which at this point would lead to self-destruction.

There comes a point in every addict’s life when everything they do is centered on using and at this point the addictive brain goes into survival mode, which means do whatever necessary to continue using no matter who you hurt. I personally thought that my lies were protecting the one person I loved more than anything on this earth and the only person I was hurting by using was me, but that couldn’t have been farther from the truth. I realize now that this self-centered thought process was my addiction doing everything it could to survive by rationalizing even the most ridiculous and irrational thoughts and behaviors.

The longer we remain addicted, the more this self-centered addictive thinking becomes the only way we know how to live, the more difficult it becomes to changes this way of thinking when we finally decide that we have had enough; however, without some sort of recovery program geared toward changing the way we think, an addict is more likely to return to doing what they do best, being an addict.

This is where suboxone (subs), when used in the correct manner, can help tremendously. For many people on subs it helps to keep away withdrawal symptoms, reduce, if not eliminate, cravings, as well as block the effects of opioids that an addict is seeking, giving them the opportunity to work on their recovery. Subs do not equal recovery; however, subs combined with a recovery program that includes, but not limited to: intensive outpatient programs, one-on-one therapy/counseling, group therapy, NA/AA, relapse prevention therapy, couples therapy, physical fitness/wellbeing, spiritual renewal, etc., can help an addict break the cycle of addiction by allowing them to not only find helpful and productive ways of coping with the stress and anxiety of everyday life, not to mention the void left by their addiction, as well as develop a strong, loving, and reliable support system. I personally believe that the more tools you have in your toolbox, the more likely you are going to have the right one when a problem arises, and in the case of addiction knowledge of your self, your disease, and your options are your tools.

For some people though subs are seen as a magic cure for addiction, and they go about their lives as best they can, but they don’t really fix any of the problems or issues that caused them to use in the first place. They not only still hang out with the same people at the same places as well as continue the same self-centered thinking that got them in this mess in the first place, but think because they have stopped using their drug of choice that they are somehow able to control their use of other drugs. Cross addiction is real, and filling the void left by your DOC with something else is only starting the cycle of addiction in motion once again. Don’t get me wrong, there are some people out there who are able to make this approach work for them, but from what I have learned the odds are greatly stacked against them.

The best advice I can give you is to sit him down and ask him what his recovery plan is. Do you know that he goes to group/individual sessions for sure? Ask if you could go come to an individual session, or if he could allow you to talk with his treating physician or psychiatrist as well as his counselors. Try to become involved but beware that there is a fine line between supportive and enabling, which is why seeing a counselor or therapist by yourself might help. Also try to understand that old habits die hard but one thing I have learned about change is that you have to recognize what needs to be changed in order to change it, so maybe talk to him about how you feel (couples therapy may help).

Overall, it is important that you do what is best for you and your kids. I know that I am going to get jumped on about this cause I can’t site my source, but children who grow up in homes where active addiction is prevalent are more likely to become addicts themselves.


Word. To everything you said and the bolded.

My mom died when I was three from a heroin overdose, she was only 21. My father used to decorate our christmas trees with empty pill bottles when I was a kid. I didn't realize it at the time but I have pictures of myself as a child happily opening christmas presents in front of a tree with orange perscription bottles hanging all over it. Clearly I was affected. I ended up with needles in my arm by age 20 even though I swore I would never touch the stuff that killed my mom.

The cycle repeats.


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