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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:22 am 
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My friend takes one 8 mg suboxone film each morning. He's probably been doing this for about 2-3 months. He tried to stop cold turkey yesterday and claimed he had the worst withdrawals of his life. He has 30 left so I told him to take 4 mg this morning. What I need for him is a taper plan and how he can use the 30 he has to get off the subs in a way that reduces his withdrawals. Please help. I'm afraid he'll start taking hydro again if we can't get him off the subs in a reasonable manner. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:10 am 
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The best thing for him to do is a slow taper, getting him down to the lowest possible dose before he stops altogether. The higher dose he stops from, the worse he's going to feel. Does he have access to get more suboxone? 30 8 mg pills might not be enough to do a proper, slow taper to prevent him from suffering more than he needs to.

If he's on 8 mg a day, he might very well be able to go to 4 mg with no withdrawals. I went from 16 mg to 4 with no withdrawals. It's usually around 4 mg (the ceiling) that withdrawals start to kick in when dropping one's dose. From there down is where the taper should get slower.

If he really pushes it too quickly, he WILL suffer more than he needs to, in my personal opinion.

I hope this helps. I'm sure others will come along and give their two cents as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:45 am 
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WOW!! Did I hear that right? Did you say he tried to stop cold turkey yesterday and had the worst withdrawls of his life? Im pretty sure you have a major problem. He's lying to you. If he stopped yesterday, he's not going to feel any withdrawls for at LEAST three days! Thats a high dose and he's been on it for a couple of months, so he has a lot in his system. Seriously, I really don't want to hear anyone say that everyones experiance is different blah blah blah!!! We all know how long it takes for withdrawls from suboxone to kick in and kick your ass!
I just jumped off at 8 mill 12 days ago, and I didn't get any withdrawls for 4 days.... by day six I was wishing I would have tapered, even a little bit...but I stay vigilant with this nightmare....day 12 and still hurting...
Listen, your friend is not ready to let go of this thing....not yet....and God help him if he continues at this dose for much longer....This drug is much harder to come off of than hydros!! Hydros?? Why the hell would someone put a person on suboxone because of hydrocodone? Im sure Im going to get a lot of heat from a lot of people for saying this, but why trade one drug for a much powerful one? Bet he got high as fuck the first time he used the sub! I know Doctors are out there just writing scripts based on anyone saying they have an addiction and they don't want to withdrawl or they don't think they can stop using, but what the fuck are they thinking??? If anything, your friend probably could have started out at no more than 2 mil....
Your friend has a much bigger problem now...and he is already lying about it...I pray you can get through to him!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:01 am 
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It's not a matter of WHAT or HOW much drugs the person is taking as to whether they should go on suboxone or not. It's a matter of HOW FUCKED UP THEIR LIFE IS/WAS. And it's THEIR decision and THEIR LIFE. Did you not read the rules? Show respect for the decisions of others. How are you doing that by saying what you're saying? You are not respecting his decision to go on suboxone and it sounds like you're intentionally trying to make this person feel like crap about his treatment!

And yes, everyone is different. Some people have fast metabolism and some people don't maximize absorption. We get about 30% absorption by taking sub the way it's intended - sublingually and even less depending on how we take it. Like I said, I went from 16 mg to 4 mg and that was two weeks ago and I NEVER felt any withdrawals. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. And because YOU refuse to accept that you are accusing someone of lying to their significant other. Did you think about that and what you could be doing to their relationship?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:30 am 
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Your right! Of course we wouldn't want anyone to know that someone they really care about may be in serious trouble! And I fucking also Know that everyone is different and everyones life is different.........Let me re-phrase this as to not scare, offend, or hurt anyones feelings. Addiction ain't no picnic! It starts with denial! If you can recognize that early on and stay vigilant about it, things just may start turning around!!! I personally think....it is my OPINION....it is through my experiance, if you believe someone is feeding you a line of bullshit or basically just playing the denial game [ WE ALL DO], I believe you should call them out on it....get them thinking....let them know that you love them and let them know that you are not going to let them fall on thier face because of thier sick addict mind!!
People really take a lot out of text here! Someone has to be a voice of reason with an addict.....stay viglilant with him, don't give up on him, love him, but don't let his addict mind make the rules!! This monster is too big for any of us to handle ourselves!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:53 am 
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Hi skelly! I think that hatmaker gave you some great advice! I am sorry to hear that your friend is having a hard time right now. Thank you so much for being the friend that you are. Every addict needs support from someone. I don't know where I would have been without the support of my friends and family. You are doing the right thing. I have a question. Is there a reason that he/she wants off of the suboxone? Is it a possibility to just get them on a low maintenance dose? I personally take 16mg a day and I never got a buzz from suboxone. I too was on hydrocodone. They are a nasty drug. I was taking sooo much a day, that I was killing myself. I am so thankful that I was able to get on suboxone and turn my life around. Don't listen to everything you hear about suboxone being a horrible drug. Everyone has a different opinion on it. Some people who are uneducated about it say that we are just switching one addiction for the other. I can't get mad at them though. They are just ignorant to how the drug works.

You know your friend, we don't. If you think that is the case, than by all means, do what you have to. But there is a lot of bogus information out there on suboxone. Feel free to ask ANY question you have. Someone here with a lot of knowledge on the drug will jump in and answer it. This forum is here to support people. Ignore the ones that aren't giving you proper support. Please let us know if we can assist you in any way. Good luck to you and your friend.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:21 pm 
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Ok, I get it, Im at the wrong site....switching over to SUBSUX where you can Freely express your opinions about addiction and DRUGS!!!! I will gladly be called ignorant here by people who cannot grasp what true recovery is! It means on back on track!! Peace out and I pray for you all! Keep encouraging people to stay on your legal dope! I can't believe somebody would ask someone why they would want to get off drugs!!! If this friend of yours wants to get off this crap, KUDOS!!! Its time!! He doesn't want to be dependant on opiats anymore....its that simple. By the way, your Doctor is making a fortune off of your misery!!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Are you saying suboxone is not recovery?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:46 pm 
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Of course it's not. It's opiate replacement therapy. If not taken indefinitely, it can sometimes be a bridge to recovery. To each his own. Whatever works, whatever is necessary. But I believe anyone with any experience will tell you, recovery begins when you are drug-free. When you face life without taking ANY opioids or other drugs. If you're an advocate of maintenance, fine. But why keep challenging people on a thread that is titled "Stopping Suboxone?"


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:24 pm 
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First of all this was a matter requiring moderation because the post was not following rules and respecting the decisions of others, so I stepped in. Secondly, this is a pro-suboxone site and that includes considering suboxone therapy as being in remission. That includes not debating which is better - abstinence or suboxone. Re-read the rules above. Here, I'll post them for you right here:

Quote:
[align=center]Posting Rules

Please do not debate the 'Pros and Cons of Suboxone' --
this forum is for people who have made their choice whether
it be for Suboxone, for Methadone, or for meetings and no meds.

PLEASE Do not get into debating which is better!

Please show the respect for the decisions of others[/align]




Need I continue?

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Seriously?? Please tell me how I broke your rules??? I read the fucking rules and Im not an idiot! I wasn't debating any good god damn thing!! I was giving someone my honest advise on thier situation as I saw it! And I stand by it!Read your rules again! Just because you are pro suboxone for life or some shit, doesn't mean its right for everyone! Your just jumping my shit because I don't share the same opinion as you!! Suboxone can be a lifesaving tool!! For extreme short term....I thought that was what it was for!! 2 3 4 5 Years?? Its my opinion not yours!! You give yours and Ill give mine.....at least the poster who has the problem can here both sides of the street!! And quite frankly, I will credit them with enough inteligence to take all these opinions and form one for themselves!!!! What the hell? Are you afraid someone might actually get off this ride and lead a normal life without opiates??


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Are you the one who just answered my question about suboxone being recovery?

And you need to calm down.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:54 pm 
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Let me re-phrase...if you read my post carefully, you should be able to tell who I am addressing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:01 pm 
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And Skelly, Its my opinion that 30 subs is more than enough to do a succesful taper.....if he really wants it... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:07 pm 
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No, that was me. When you post the rules, do you actually read them? I said nothing about which was better, pros and cons, etc. You're the one doing that. At least you finally admitted you're pro-suboxone. Unfortunately, I think you're the one who is violating the rules.

I simply stated that no informed person, adiction medicine specialist, counsellor, etc. would consider someone to be in recovery who is still taking psychoactive drugs. If it makes you feel better to think you're in remission, so be it. You're still taking an OPIOID. You do you grasp that, right? You seem very threatened by people who have gotten off buprenorphine. Does it make you uncomfortable? The way you promote it on this site, one would think you work for the manufacturer. Just my personal observation.

But seriously, I think you should go back and read your own rules before you quote them to others.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:50 pm 
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Day 13....Im taking my youngest to the beach....only at about 60% but thats just going to get better....and Im going without having to put an opiate in my body...Am I gloating? Maybe, but damn I feel alive again!! :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Hi skelly! I hope you aren't turned off by the thread going off topic. I truly do like this site. We do get the occasional tiff on here unfortunately. I just pop some popcorn and get comfy! But other than that it is a great place to get support no matter what you or your friends decision is. I personally am on suboxone as I stated earlier, though I never said that it would be for life or just temporary. Right now I'm open to either. I have to take it for pain though too. Did your friend have issues with pain that led to the addiction? That is the only reason that I may consider taking this forever. I wish you both the best.

Akmasc, I apologize wholeheartedly if you thought that I was calling YOU ignorant. That was not my intention and I certainly didn't think you were ignorant. I simply stated "They are just ignorant to how the drug works". "That meant that people who have biased opinions on this dont understand or have knowledge of how the drugs work. I'm not even saying that you are one of these people. I was not referring to anything you said. I typically don't respond to confrontational people. You sound very very angry about something, though it isn't clear what. I know that you are in withdrawals right now and that you are having a hard time. Maybe that is the source of your anger. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope that your pain and suffering is short lived. Congratulations on your successfulness at stopping suboxone. Many aren't strong enough to. You should be proud of yourself. Best of luck!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Goinstrong...I have extensive experience with Suboxone, including the experience of tapering and quitting, and I don't agree with what you said. Does that make me biased or ignorant. Unless you're a psychopharmacologist, you have no knowledge beyond your own personal experience either. Sub helped me get off a large hydro habit, and I'm grateful for that. However, my sub Doc gave me an enormous amount of false information. I'm not very grateful for that. I tapered and jumped at a low dose, and the withdrawals from both were extremely severe. I just sometimes think with all the rosy pictures painted about this powerful narcotic, another viewpoint from someone who's actually been through it is warranted.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Skelly -

I'm going to have to apologize for everyone's behavior here on your thread. In the beginning I was forced to do my job and step in to remind people of the rules. Unfortunately, people don't like that and have continued to just want to fight and twist people's words around (no one said disagreement alone deemed anyone ignorant or biased). All that's being posted now are fighting words and that doesn't help you one bit.

If anyone wants to continue to post bullshit, I'll lock or delete this whole thread (after starting a new one for skelly) and warnings or banning will be the result.

IF ANYONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS POST, SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE ONLY. FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL RESULT IN A FORMAL WARNING.

Let this go.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject: question
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:38 pm 
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The poster Skelly asked the question:

Please Help! Need to quit!

not

Please Help! Need to decide.


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