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 Post subject: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:51 am 
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Hey everyone i am new here and just wanted to know why i feel the way i do? I have watched dr J's videos and read posts on here that say the half life of bupe is 36 hours and withdrawal shouldn't start to begin until 3 or 4 days. However,When i get up in the morning i am all cramped up and find myself on the toilet as well as extremely sleepy. Watery eyes yawning non stop and my body aches everywhere. I do not understand. I am on 8 mg a day also so shouldn't i be above the ceiling effect anyways? I'm so confused and wish i could understand why everyone else can go days without withdrawals and i have to feel them every morning..


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:03 am 
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Hi Jennabug, so sorry to hear that you are going through this! I don't know if you have posted your story. If so, I don't think I have read it. Could you tell us a little about your relationship with suboxone...when you started? Also, what was your drug of choice and how much before you went to subs? Thank you! I know you will get lots of positive feedback very soon. This is a great place for support and advice!


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Hey jennabug welcome :)

First of all, that sucks to hear about the withdrawal. Something isn't right, we just got to figure out what's causing this and fix it so u can feel better immediately like ur supposed to. How long have u been taking sub and do u have a Dr or getting it off the st? Another question is what were u taking before sub? Sometimes switching from methadone to suboxone can be tricky and there's a waiting period to make sure u don't go into precipitated withdrawal. If u weren't taking methadone then what were u taking and how much? And final question I promise lol, how are u taking ur sub, are u making sure ur getting the absorption process right? Sorry to ask so many questions, but the more we know the better we can narrow it down and try to help ya.

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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:13 pm 
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Thank you both so much for replying. Here's my story...I was addicted to opiate painkillers. It all started about 7 years ago when i had a surgery for an umbilical hernia and was put on painkillers. I started to abuse them and get them off the street and spiraled out of control. Eventually i was up to 4 perk 30's a day and then started with the oc 40's on top of that. And also took vicoden and tramadol pretty much whatever opiate pain pills i could get my hands on. I did this for about 3 years. I finally got tired and went to a clinic for some help. When i went in, i was already taking a quarter of a sub (2 mg) off the street. They informed that they couldn't help me if i was on such a low dose of suboxone that i didn't need to be on a clinic!! I was furious! I agreed to their dose which was 8 mg a day and as time went on, i ended up relapsing twice and they upped my dose to 16 mg a day to be taken all at once in the morning. I eventually left that clinic because they required me to go there every single day to dose (since their also a methadone clinic) and that was very hard for me to do especially since i don't have a car. I am now at a much better doctors office that i see once a month as well as counseling. I have been clean (on suboxone) for 4 years now at 8 mg a day. I dose in the mornings. I am also on gabapentin which is also a whole other issue for me cause when the doc put me on it, they said it was "non addictive" which isn't true! I then ended up hooked on those while on suboxone treatment and currently I'm down to 4 a day from taking bottles full of it. I am grateful for suboxone and i feel like it saved me from going down an even worse path than i was already on. I am a mother of 4 beautiful children, i am currently seeking part time employment and i also see a psychiatrist and counseling. I suffer from ptsd, depression, anxiety, and insomnia which i am on medications for as well. Thank you for reading and replying. I hope i covered everything.


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:36 pm 
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Hi Jenna, thank you for sharing your story! I was told that tramadol was not addictive! Turned out to be my drug of choice. It was so easy to get on line and I was getting the same effect that I enjoyed from oxys, percs, roxys and so much cheaper! So, you take 2 8mg strips in the am? I am sorry if I got that wrong! I wish there was a way to reread your post while writing my response. I apologize if I don't have your story straight. But maybe you could ask the Dr. to write the script for 4mg strips and start by cutting one out? I just went from 8mgs to 6mgs and asked my doc to switch to 2mgs strips, still prescribing 8mgs in case I could not do it. Just a suggestion. Enjoy your evening!


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:50 pm 
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Hi Jenna, I am so sorry, I did confuse your story with someone else. So you are saying that 8mgs does not hold you 24 hours? How do you feel after you dose? I have heard many people say that they feel like they wake up in withdrawl and about 20 minutes after they dose, they are fine. People have complained from their bones hurting to feeling depressed. It happens to me sometimes. I usually wake up at about 6 am and can feel kind of blah. I will take my first dose and go back to sleep for an hour. I get up at 7 feeling fine. I take 2 mgs three times a day. I do that because of the pain I have. I don't know if this will be helpful, but check out the side effects forum. You might find some helpful information there. Good luck and keep posting!


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:11 pm 
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Lol that's okay. Yes i take 8 mg in the am and honestly i feel like crap before dosing. I wake up feeling miserable, achy, watery eyes, crampy stomach, headaches..and when i take my sub, I'm fine. I just don't get it when dr J talked about the half life and ceiling effect why am i the exception to the rule? I dunno..but thank you for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:29 pm 
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Hey jenna,
Im not sure the half life is a problem here. You have been stable on Sub for 4 years at 8mgs, correct?

Now with all these other meds your taking it could be a mixture that has you feeling poorly in the mornings. There are more than one type of halflife with suboxone. I was watching another oldie but goodie video from Dr Junigs talkzone and it explains the halflives. I cant give you an explanation here, but check out the Bupe Videos and look for Halflife.

You sound to me like your doing very well except for the morning issue. I do know that our blood levels change over a 24 hour period, but no where near of a drop to produce real WD simptoms. Im leaning toward other factors from here.

sorry i couldnt be more helpful jenna

Razor


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:15 am 
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Hey razor..actually you've been very helpful because i have read lots of your posts on here and they have helped me tremendously!!..well i used to take 16 mgs 4 yrs ago when i 1st started out and then i dropped to 12 mgs stayed at that dose for almost 2 yrs. I started taking just the 8 mgs in the mornings about 7 months ago. I am not on anybnew medications.. But with every dose i have ever been on, i have always felt crappy in the mornings until i dosed..i always thought that it was normal and that everyone who's on sub feels that way until i found this website and started researching. So now I'm just all confused..i am going to try to search for that video though cause i don't think i saw that one..again thank you for your help.


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:10 am 
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I know this goes against what is usually suggested here, but I would cut your dose in half and take the 2nd half 12 hours after the first. Also when you dose, make sure you're getting the maximum absorption. Rinse your mouth with water if it's dry. Keep your dose under your tongue without swallowing (if possible) for 15 min. Then don't eat, drink or smoke for another 15-30 min after.
Or you could try Dr. J's "painting" method, which you can find by searching his blog. Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:29 am 
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Also how long has it been since u stopped the gabbatin (sp?)? Does it make u feel bad or sick like when u stop taking it, could that have anything to do with feeling like u do? And make sure ur absorption is good. I sure hope u figure this out, especially since u have been fine on the other doses. Good luck!!

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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:58 am 
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Actually i have never been fine. I have always no matter what dose i was on, felt yukky in the mornings until i dosed..like i said, i thought it was normal and that everyone felt this way until i saw these videos.


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:32 pm 
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I'm with you Jenna, I always feel a little blah when I first wake up and I dont like it! I have always been one of those people who opens my eyes in the morning and is thankful for another day and ready to go! Now, uggh, I feel blah! It is not like depression, dark but more like ok, another day...does that make sense? Anyway, I was not sure if this was a side effect of suboxone or just life with menopause. As I decrease the amount of suboxone that I am taking it has gotten a little better. And it really only lasts until about 30 minutes after I take my morning dosage. Thanks for listening! Hope you are having a wonderful day!


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:31 pm 
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Oh I thought u were talking about withdrawal type symptoms in the morning. I'm the exact same way as far as just not feeling great in the morning. I can't remember a time that I've woken up feeling good at all. Granted I've never been that person who wakes up like a chopper bird lol my bf is, not me though. If that's what u guys are talking about then yes, me too. It's like a drugged down no energy to even walk through the house feeling. And mentally it's just not what I'd describe as happy, it's just a "I'm here" type of feeling. I feel much better and like myself after I dose. That could be mental on my part, who knows. I just always assumed that's part of not being a morning person but it's worse than that imo. Sorry if I misunderstood what u were talking about Jenna. I'm sure glad we aren't all waking up in the same house every morning lol :)

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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:00 pm 
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I meant chipper bird lol not chopper....auto correct made it sound like a bird that flies around with chopper wings like a helicopter, which would actually work in my scenario I was trying to explain. Have a wonderful day!!

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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:17 pm 
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If you have always felt this way on Buprenorphine, you aways will till dose time.
For me, early on, meaning the first few weeks i was rarin to go but over time (a year) i would
feel a bit tired in the morning.
However, my hobbies and my work plus staying up later than i should caused this.

I cant blame it in the bupe today. Age and work, eating dinner to late etc..
This is after dose cutting and learning dr js Painting of the dry mouth way of dosing .. :o


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:25 pm 
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Lol...i figured that's what you meant anyway.i hate the auto correct..lol...yessss!!! That's exactly how i feel!! Just like you guys described..so basicly even when i was in 16 mg..12..mg..and now the 8 mg, the feeling when i wake up every single morning for the past 4 yrs has been the same. .crappy..it feels like I'm dragging my body out of bed with a huge crane..watery eyes, sleepy, body aches, headaches, Ect...and my best friend who isn't on any program but she has been on suboxone for 3 yrs and all she takes is 2 mgs in the am and 2 in pm and she feels exactly the same as me every morning until we dose..i figured it was normal but like i said, after watching the videos on the ceiling effect & half lives, I'm just confused as to why i and others feel this way...thank you for responding.. i already love this forum!! Hope you all are having a great day as well!!


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Razor when you say you have always felt that way, do you mean while on bupe or just always in your life?


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 Post subject: Re: please help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:35 pm 
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Sometimes i feel like the reason i feel that way, is because when i was using perks, i always took one in the am to get that energy..if that's the case, then I'm basically still doing my normal addiction behavior/habits which isn't good and also means it's mostly mental..however, when i find myself crampy and then I'm on the toilet, then that's not mental...i just wish i could wake up feeling normal, drink my coffee, and get my day started without the 1st thought i have being to take my suboxone before i feel worse..imo, that's still addict behavior because I'm thinking about it, craving it, and basically chasing it just like i did with the perks with the only difference being that it's prescribed to me. Does this make sense? Dr j's video gave me that little bit of hope that i needed thinking that i don't have to be sick the minute i wake up cause bupe is still there...the way I'm thinking is, say today i took my 8 mg in the am, tomorrow morning (24 hrs) i should still have that 8 mgs in my system because it hasn't even been 36 hrs yet..so then i wake up and take 8 mg again so now i have 16 mgs in my body within the 24 hours..12 more hours go by, and now i have 8 mg in my system cause half of it has gone (36 hour half life)..so i should be well over that ceiling effect as well as some still in my blood which is why i shouldn't wake up having withdrawals..hope that makes some sense...


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