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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Givemehope, I know exactly what you mean about taking an extra .25mg knowing it won't help, but psychologically it helps. But only sets back your progress.

I have researched clonodine and from what I read is that is hasn't been researched much in pregnant women. I find it best to do my own research first then ask either my addictions dr or OB. Especially in regards to the situation we are in, most physicians are quessing and\or havent been through these types of situations much before-so they have little experience to go on. This is what I found when I asked both doctors (after researching it, and pretty much resigning to the idea that taking clonodine want a good idea): my OB thought I was talking about klonopin and when I said "no, it's a BP medication that helps with w\d symptoms" he told me to ask my sub dr. And my sub doctor obviously knows clonodine can help with the symptoms, but knew little on how it would affect the baby. So decided to just stick it out without the help. What little I was able to find about it in pregnant women kinda scared me from taking it.
Same thing with something to help me sleep, I could see it making it worse at night; ill still need to get up every other hour to pee and ill be even more exhausted and sleepy, and won't be able to go back to sleep despite my exhaustion.

Regarding other kids, ive got slightly older kids, who for the most part are super self sufficient so that has been a big plus for me. It would be so hard to do this with a toddler, I dont envy you that. I also have a very supportive husband who helps out a TON when hes home, as well as a wonderful mother who will help at a moments notice if/and when I need it. I'm very lucky!

As for dealing with the w/d symptoms; I haven't taken any medications at all. I guess ive felt a little guilty, I figure he's getting this subutex that is not needed so I've tried really hard not to subject him to anything else if at all possible. I think ive taken tylenol 3 times in almost 9 months. I'm using other ways to help minimize the symptoms, like baths (tons and tons of baths, during the day and at night when the RLS is out of control), exercise-even just a walk around the block helped myanxiety, RLS, and sweats (but even a walk around the block is hard and almost impossible for me now), keeping busy and getting to work no matter how much I didn't want to. It is so hard to get going when you don't feel good, but it was always worse if I stayed home, a lot of the time I took more than I should have. Another thing that I am just finding out, take your dose or doses at the same time each day, no matter how bad you want to take it early, it will screw you up in the days to come. Talking about your cravings and hurdles help too. One thing I've found is that I CANNOT handle the severe rls at night and will fail everytime if the rls is severe and in my arms and legs. So I must take a dose at night around 7 or preferably later although thats sometimes very hard to wait that long if ive been dealing with the wd symptoms all day. Relief keeps calling my name. But we all must remember that the pain means we are slowly getting better.
Hang in there givemehope. How far along are you and what dose are you at? How are you dealing with the symptoms?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:30 pm 
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1234km: I'm 21 weeks and I've been at 1 mg for 4 days. It was pretty easy to get to 1 mg this time and I was feeling confident. I started to feel the drop this morning. Then I found out I'd have my step kids all day and that caused me to break down and take .25 mg. I promise I'm not an evil step mother and I treat them very well. But they're seriously out of control. I talked to my husband this evening about switching to every other weekend due to their behavior and me having problems with dealing with pregnancy and a toddler. It didn't go over well at all.

You really are lucky to have that support. No one knows what's I'm going through and I have no help or relief from anyone. I feel so hopeless on days like today.

I really admire your resolve to not take anything else during this. I've read the risks about clonidine use, but I feel like if I don't have any comfort meds then I won't be successful. Life is hard enough without wd symptoms and the ones that high blood pressure cause get to me the worst and cause me to fail every time (ie sweating, chills, anxiety, insomnia, and especially RLS). Hopefully this doctor will sympathize with me. As much as I hate to take a bunch of meds, I'm afraid it's the only way I'll do this. I'm such a wimp with the RLS so I totally know how you feel there.

I've considered telling my OB what's going on just in case they've drug tested me and found the sub without my knowledge. However, I'm terrified that they wouldn't believe that I was off before he was born and then keep him anyway. My cousin said they refused to listen to her about weening down really low (1 mg) and started her baby on methadone anyway. And she's a nurse there.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:45 pm 
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Hi everyone...just giving an update and I hope it will give some comfort to you all:
I'm into my 3rd day completely off my subutex. This. Is. Hard. But I'm doing it! In the last month and half or so I've dropped from 2mg to .5mg and in the last couple weeks I think I was able to drop down to maybe .2-5mg....but I think I need to explain how my last opiate dr. Appointment went a couple weeks ago. I told him how in the previous month I dropped from 2mg to .5mg, there were times I'd feel withdrawals but over all I was feeling optimistic because it wasn't nearly as bad as when I first went down to 2mg. He then told me that I should continue doing what worked for me...however..."physiologically, the body does not register effects of anything less than 2mg." WHOA. I don't necessarily believe this because in the last couple weeks I tried to take none at all and I just couldn't, so I'd take the smallest piece I could, I'm thinking about .25mg but I was kind of guessing. Gi veMeHope I think this is why you are feeling so bad, and don't give up! This jump to 1mg is a big one and I think it's one that your body is reacting to more than other ones. But dont give up! Your body WILL adjust and you will get through this if you force yourself! You CAN! Just because you dont have the same kind of support as others right now does not mean you dont have the abilities, you CAN get through this.
Maybe it was because on the 22nd I realized it was exactly 6 months after my first doctor's appointment at the opiate clinic and 6 months exactly from the first day I stopped using heroin. But I decided to really try not taking any subutex at all, even though I was "trying" before this day I knew...would be tough but I was going to do it. It is HARD. But at the same time its DOABLE. Mentally...it takes more strength to try not to focus on what my body is going through. Not easy. Time goes by sooo slow, it feels like I have a fever flu you know: the fever-ish feeling and sweating, the ache in your muscles, the fast heart beat, the constipation and slight diarrhea...but...its possible if you believe it is. Maybe because the last couple weeks I've kindof been psyching myself up too. The last two days have also been sunny which I took as a decision that it was now or never; I live in Michigan and the weather is starting to SUCK and it makes it impossible it seems to get through w/d...especially because I don't have a car and I have to walk to work. I just had a "its now or never moment I'm down to .25 its not going to get any easier than this when I'm walking through rain or snow." Forcing myself to go to work is also helpful for me because it forces me to do something besides be at home feeling miserable. It sucks, but time passes by slower at home. The first night after making it through the first day wasn't soo bad, I was able to cuddle up on the couch and eat and read a book as if I were recovering from a normal flu. However it was restless sleep....I kept moving from the bed to couch and back. The nest morning i felt the same as the day before, not better, not worse. What's kept me going is that, I didn't want to have to go through that first day again and that's what's motivating me right now. If I try to take some I'm just going to go through this again. You can't avoid the w/d in order to get better, you can only try to taper as low as you can until you have the "flu," (telling myself I have the flu right now is also helping me right now...). Last night however SUCKED. very painful and the RLS was terrible! Today I'm feeling the same but as its the 3rd day...I definitely can't go back now. I have basically no support, my house is disgusting with dirty dishes and trash everywhere I just don't have it in me to do anything at home...and thats part of my motivation that hopefully this will be the last day of the "flu" I HOPE but I've also prepared myself (I hope) that it might go on another 4th day...but either way I will be through this eventually and able to clean my house without needing to take subutex in the morning to do it. Soon I will be able to live without it.
This morning feeling desperate and after reading something about the detoxification properties of apple cider vinegar I drank a shot of it and a bunch of water. Now, maybe 2-3 hours later I think I might feel a little less sick though not exactly but that could just be because I've flushed through some of the water. Either way water is good for flushing and I dont think it hurt though I needed to sit and lay down after it. Not sure if that was from the vinegar or just the w/d I was already feeling.
I wish you all love hope and prayers for getting through this. A day at a time. ...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Quick update: I found a wonderful psych dr who gave me a prescription for subutex. I still plan on tapering completely off I'm the next 3 weeks. But now my butt is covered legally.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Secret addict--thank you soooo much for the encouragement! I didn't realize how important it was to have someone rooting you on until you don't have it.
And you are doing so so so good! It's people like you that I'm so thankful for and look up to. The only time that I've ever went through and completed detox withdrawals was in a hospital. I was so drugged up and was free of any responsibility, so it was easy. This time, at home and in secrecy is soooo hard.
Have you taken any comfort meds?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:27 pm 
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Givemehope this is very good news! Good for you!
Secretaddict, great job on sticking to your jump. I am having such a hard time! I tried to jump on saturday but had way too much trouble trying to sleep. The restlessness in my arms was unimaginable. So I took a little to take the edge off that night, but then took a whole .25mg all at once on sunday. I think I was just so sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. So by taking it all at once instead of half and half 12 hours apart, I set myself up for the next couple days of worse withdrawals. Stupid. I knew it too, but at the time just needed to feel better fast. And it didnt help much anyways, it really was not worth the last few days. Since sunday ive been taking .06mg at a time, as little as possible. At most ill take it twice a day, for sure saving one dose for late night right before bed.
This is my attempt at jumping again. Which isnt going so well. But it HAS to be done and I cannot take ANYTHING ELSE after friday because that'll give me just over 2 weeks to get completely off.
Im already so disappointed in myself that im not done yet and that ive cut it so close. But man! Its not easy with double the symptoms, ive got withdrawals on one hand, then last weeks pregnancy symptoms on the other. And the two just accentuate each other.
Givemehope don't male the same mistake I did by waiting until the last minute. Try to be completely done by like before the last month.
So that's where im at. About .06mg x2 daily, not taking the second dose if possible and after friday I wont be taking anything.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 11:14 am 
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Thinking of you today, 1234km. I hope you're doing well on your day 2. Post if you get time :)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:55 am 
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Ok so my doctor gave me the 2 mg subutex pills. (I've been having to use the 8 mg films.) How in the world are you all accurately cutting these down? I used a straight blade and I can't even cut them in half properly.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:53 pm 
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End of day 3 of jump, finishing 72 hours completely off subutex. The first 48 hours were the worst. The first night without anything (hours 24-30) was pretty bad due to restless arms and the muscle jumping. I didnt sleep much. The second day has, also so far been the worst, but not so bad that id give up. Surprisingly, last night was ok for sleep. My arms and legs were sore, but nothing that kept me up all night like the night before. Today really has been ok, other than the non stop sneezing. I thought for sure day 3 and 4 would be the worst.....so im still waiting for the other shoe to drop. I did read somewhere that the half life is less when you are on such a little dose as I was, maybe thats why.
I got rid of everthing I had left on saturday which ended up being a good thing because I'm sure I would have taken something sunday night because I was so scared to relive the night before. But it was a good thing I didn't have a choice because the night was totally doable.
GiveMehope, I tried the liquid method, but didnt prefer it. What I did was crush the pill, separate the powder into fours, which is .5mg each and then separate those piles as needed. (Leaving on a glass or mirror, make sure to put up and out of the way. It really doesnt look good) Then id scoop the powder into a bent business card and let it slide under my tounge. It disappears immediately, but I still wait 15 minutes before eating or drinking anything. It worked well for me. Alwsys dose at home tho, it could be very hard to explain if you were pulled over.
Ill update tomorrow if I can regarding my night tonight. Theres a slight possibility this baby could be on his way....ive been having contractions off and on all day.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:49 am 
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Well the baby came today, via c section. Having a little trouble getting my pain under control and I'm also discouraged because 72 hours with nothing and now they are pumping me full of meds, was it all for nothing? Hopefully not.
Babe is doing great, hes perfect. Ill update soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:22 am 
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Congratulations 1234! Very exciting to hear that you and baby are doing well! Hope your pain gets under control soon. Looking forward to updates when you're feeling up to it!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:46 am 
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Pain is under control. I was afraid at first it was due to the subutex and maybe it was, but after that first 12 hours right after the surgery we were able to control the pain just fine, with minimal meds. So even if it was the subutex, I was at such a low dose that 3 days without was long enough to get proper pain Control.
Baby is doing good, still crossing fingers there won't be any wothdrawal symptoms, but im very hopeful since I was almost 4 days without any. In my opinion, if baby was going to have any symptoms, he would have been showing them as soon as he was born.
I'm doing good, taking as little meds as i can, trying to be honest with myself about my physical pain vs psychological wanting of the pain med. Not easy folks, but since my OB knows my history he helps too.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:14 am 
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Congratulations 1234km! I'm glad pain is under control now.
Yay for you! Baby is here! And you were able to get down to nothing beforehand! :)
Are they keeping him for the full 5 day observation period?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:57 am 
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With a csection Im staying in the hospital for almost 5 days as it is, but no not specifically holding him for observation. But im not sure what the post-partum staff know. Obviously my OB knows about the subutex and I decided to tell my anesthesiologist about the situation, but ive left it at that and I dont know what was passed on in report about me.
Maybe you guys can tell me otherwise, but since is been off of the subutex for almost 4 days, at such a low dose before jumping and feeling pretty much thru the w/d's.....I didnt feel like I needed to tell everyone that I was previously taking it. And baby hadnt had any for 72 hours prior to coming out and now its been 5 days, I just assumed if he was to have any issues with w/d we'd have seen them from birth.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:34 pm 
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In my humble opinion, I think you are absolutely right in not telling everyone there about the subutex. Even before you jumped, you were down very very low. And I think, as you said, if he were going to have problems, they would've already appeared. No need to cause the nurses to feel like they have to over-analyze every little thing he does. I saw babies in withdrawal when I had my daughter, and it was very obvious. I fully believe that he is/will be perfectly fine.
I hope that you have a speedy healing. And please keep us posted! :)
I'm going to step down to .75 mg on Friday. I wanted to do it earlier, but I took around 1.25-1.5 over the weekend. So I want to make sure I have a solid 4-5 days at 1 mg before I step down.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:24 pm 
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I'm having a bad day and don't have anyone to talk to about it. So, anyone looking for encouragement, don't read this post for today.

Monday-Wednesday I was feeling good. I was excited about getting off sub and not having to hide it and depend on it. However, I was also feeling positive about life in general.
Today has been so hard on me and I don't know why. I just woke up extremely depressed and hating every aspect of my life. I took my second .5 mg early. I usually save it for evening. It did help calm me down, but now I'm stressing about it wearing off before bedtime and my step kids will be here this evening. (Which always makes for a stressful and miserable time.) it's days like today that I feel so discouraged about quitting. I feel like I'm not happy enough to do it. But I have to. And that builds the anxiety. Yuck. I want today to be over.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:44 pm 
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About 45 minutes ago, after his kids walked in the door and the oldest immediately knocked my toddler down, I caved and took am extra .75 mg.
I feel so much better mentally, for now. But after 4 days straight at a level 1 mg, I've messed it up again. How the hell am I going to do this? How can one want something so badly and be completely consumed with obtaining it, yet also be seemingly incapable of getting there when left to one's own devices? And I KNOW how critical this is and how badly my life will suck if I don't do this soon.
I wish God would have mercy on me and not let me have these bad days till I can get through this tunnel.
I am completely emotionally incapable of dealing with stress and/or discontent. When other people can get through bad days suffering nothing but a foul mood; I'm like a complete idiot freak. I literally break down and can't function or focus on anything else.
I hope I can go back and delete this post when I'm on the upswing of my emotional pendulum.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Hey there, can I just say that I really relate to ur stress and feeling like without ur medicine u can't face the major stress. I'm the same exact way. I have no words to help but wanted u to know that I know how that feels. Sometimes I wonder how did I handle so much stuff before active addiction but now I fall apart emotionally so dang easy. And taking my sub really does make me feel better for a bit. Now that could all be in my head but it is what it is. But I do think ur very brave & shouldn't beat urself up for taking the .75 ur only human. Down to 1mg is so awesome. I don't think I could do what ur doing so no worries, a lot of ppl feel like u do....and ur brave enough to taper anyway!!! Keep going girl :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Jenn-thank you so much. It's just nice to sometimes have someone say "Yes, you're right. This does suck. And sub does make it better." Validation is a wonderful thing. :)
Are you trying to get off sub?
My shit storm of a day yesterday has lingered and stunk up today too. Sometimes I think I might be bi-polar. If so, my Axis work up is getting pretty impressive lol.
It's funny you mentioned that you wonder how you dealt with so much stuff before active addiction. I was thinking the same thing last night and realized that I've never dealt well with it. Since I was 16 I've self-medicated with something wether it be prescribed or not. That realization made me feel better for a while, thinking addiction isn't/hasn't messed up my coping abilities. But then I panicked and thought, "I'll never be able to not take meds."
I'm being honest with myself in saying that I'll go right back to sub after the baby is born. It works for me. BUT I do need off before the end of November.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:02 pm 
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1234km-- How are you and baby boy?

I've been feeling better mentally the last couple days. I was going to delete my last 2 horribly negative posts; however I think I'll leave them as a little reminder to myself. A reminder to NEVER get pregnant again lol.

Planning on going to .75 mg this week. I keep arguing with myself to just get it over with and jump now since I'm already at 1/4 of where I was when jumping last time. Tapering is really hard to do for me. But I'm a baby during withdrawals so I'm going to make it to at least .5 mg before jumping. My goal is to be off by November 30th. Hope everyone is doing well today! :)


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