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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:50 am 
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GiveMeHope wrote:

Also butterflying--you mentioned there being things to make jumping from sub more comfortable. What are your personal thoughts on that?

Good morning GiveMeHope,
SO sorry to read that your 18 mo old has been sick. :( I think this is true: "A mother is only ever as happy as her least happy child." Hope you are BOTH feeling well today and you can get back on your taper plan successfully.

The things that made me more comfortable I learned right here on this forum. I believe they are all safe suggestions during pregnancy, but check with your dr., especially about any and all "comfort" meds you consider taking.

1. Hot baths and showers (not too hot, and no hot tubs for you of course until after the baby is born)
2..Clonodine (blood pressure med- I monitored my bp and it was high during wdls which adds to that "creepy crawly kicky" feeling. This med does not eliminate it totally, but gives quite a bit of relief-it is non-addicting. Check with your dr!)
3. Uplifting music (I STILL practically live with my headphones in)
4. Exercise- very hard to get started when you are dragging, but I always got some relief after doing "something", even just a slow bike ride.
5. Get outside in the sunshine
6. Don't isolate in a dark room- get up and moving!
7. Post post post post- let it out! During my first weeks I posted lengthy "journal type" entries daily, sometime multiple times a day. This was very therapeutic for me.

Some people get "the sweats", but I did not. I think this is because I was already doing quite a bit of cardio daily during my taper and "forced" the sweat out. Later I read that sauna also helps force this 'detox sweat" out, but again, NOT for pregnant women. I started going to the sauna about a week into my jump, and I think that helped me as well. If you can work up a sweat doing light cardio you may avoid the "detox sweats" like I did.

Lastly, I would say try to keep a sense of humor....it helps me to laugh at myself and try to find the funny in even the darkest situations; laughing is another one of those wonderful "natural" endorphin producers!
I laughed when I read about the sight of your husband's face pissing you off - I HOPE you were at least "half" joking! lol
Good luck- keep posting!
BF

PS. Stock up on some nutritional drinks (organic, vegetable based worked best for me) - my stomach was very very sensitive after my jump and putting almost anything in it made me feel pretty badly for about a week. I guess I escaped most of the "bathroom' issues though because I was barely eating!! Do NOT eat anything difficult to digest- keep it bland. Trainer ate some kind of Chinese food early on and I had Caesar Salad on day 4 and we laugh about it now, but we suffered then! lol

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Wildwoman; Just so you know my background I am a RN case manager for the postpartum unit and the NICU.
Any given week I have between 2-5 women in various stages of addiction/clean, on legal (perscribed) or street (unperscribed) Suboxone, Subutex, Methadone.
For your babies sake don't try to wean off too fast or just to "get off so I don't have to deal with the NICU".
This is the honest to God's truth, we nurses don't care where you are on your journey, what we do care about is that your baby does not suffer. Any woman that comes to our department and is on a program , is not looked at with anything other than compassion and the understanding that she is doing the best thing for her baby. Most of us are Mom's too, we understand wanting to take your baby home but we also know that what is most important is that the baby is safe and painfree.
The babies suffering is what the postpartum nurses and the NICU nurses care about. At least we know you are trying and being the best Mom you can be.
The baby tells us what is happening with it, we watch and score the babies behaviors and symptoms it's not arbitrary. Believe me the NICU nurses don't want to keep a baby any longer than necessary. They have more than enough to do and celebrate a baby going home to its Mom, so we wouldn't send a suffering baby home just because "it doesn't look like it's withdrawing. When you see babies day after day you can tell the difference between "colic", "fussiness", "baby tremors" that are "normal" and more serious symptoms.
Ask a NICU nurse for the NAS scoring form and see how many things we need to look at. Colic and formula intolerance don't give a baby those symptoms.
You know what withdrawl feels like, so go slow and give your baby a chance to adjust to coming down also. Remember what you feel, the baby feels.
If you are using "street" drugs talk to your OB.
We have established weaning programs for women and yes, their babies had to stay in the NICU a while but not as long as a baby who is born already in withdrawl because the OB and the nurses weren't given all the information they needed about things affecting the baby. They go to the NICU because they can be watched more closely and it's the safest environment for them when they are having a bad day. It's quiet and dark and their pain can be relieved quickly.
It's all about the baby.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Hi spinlady,

I just wanted to welcome you to our forum and thank you for your well thought out post to our original poster. It's great to have an enlightened, educated health professional especially one who deals with this hands on on a regular basis. I hope you'll stick around here and share your knowledge and experience on this subject with others who come here in dire need of an answer to their questions/concerns,advice or just some good old support. As you know, pregnant women/moms with addiction issues are some of the most stigmatized, and often most fearful, groups in society, at times even looked down upon by fellow addicts. Your input here can help to change that, and give at least some comfort to them. Again welcome, and thank you for posting.

Elizabeth
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Your welcome Liz anything I can do to help.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:32 am 
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Im 30 weeks pregnant and am now at 1mg of subutex. I started my pregnancy at about 16mg. Tapering from 16 to about 2 wasn't bad at all. My decrease from 2 to 1.5 was not too bad either. There was one day that I was thinking I might not be able to do it, but I was able to get through it and felt much better on day 5. Day 4 of my decrease was the worst, with days 1-3 not being too bad at all. I had some sleeplessness, waking up early, needing baths more often to help with achiness, yawning.....but nothing too unbearable. So today is my first day on 1mg, taking .5 at around 11pm and then again 12 hours later. If the w/d's are like my last decrease I can totally do this.
My plan is to decrease to a really little dose before jumping. I am getting the 2mg tabs and am cutting them into quarters right now, but as soon as I decrease to .8mg, I will be using the liquid method that this site talks so much about. My plan is to do about a week at each dose decrease, or atleast until I feel better. I waited too long and now I am in kind of a time crunch.

Taper plan is as follows:
1mg - 1 week
.8mg - 1 week
.6mg - 1 week
.4mg - 1 week
.2mg - 1 week
.1mg - 1 week

then i will have about 3 weeks completely off before I deliver. And If i need to go one more week at .1mg and take it only every other day, i think that will be ok too. That is my plan going forward and I will post my updates, because for me reading about others updates and progress has been so helpful.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:47 am 
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Yes, give me hope, secret addict and wildwoman,1234km, how are you ladies doing? Please update us as soon as you're able to. Look forward to hearing from you soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:22 pm 
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1234km
I was just wondering if you are doing this wean on your own or are you following the advice of your OB? Seems a rather quick wean to me. We have many women coming in on 1mg and find it really doesn't cause much of an issue. You want to feel OK and be able to care for your baby.
Please always remember that your baby is withdrawing also so don't go too fast.Truthfully I'd rather have my baby observed for 5-7 days than worry about a rebound reaction. It's all about the baby


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:53 pm 
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Both my addictions dr and my OB are supportive of whatever decision I make. I will slow down if I become too uncomfortable. And if I cant get off it completely before I deliver, then so be it. Im taking it one day at a time, but that is my taper plan if everything goes well. I've been at 2mg for quite some time now.
So you think roughly 10 weeks is not long enough to get off of 1mg?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:01 pm 
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I meant to say id been at 2mg for sometime now, so I was very stable at that dose before I started decreasing more. Now im at day 2 of 1mg. Also, it only took me 5 days instead of my planned 7 to get from 2 to 1.5mg. But I will let my body tell me whether or not im going too fast or not.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:41 am 
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Seems as tho you have a good plan. Initally I thought you were just doing this on your own without anyone (medical) to help monitor you. I always worry about "I'll just get off fast then I'll be OK" plans. I think you'll do fine as you are aware that the plan may change. Best of luck to both of you!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:37 pm 
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So a quick update on whats going on with me.

I have been at 1mg for 3 going on 4 days now (.5 mg in am and .5mg in pm), I am expecting tomorrow (day 4) and saturday to be the worst.....2 more days until I level out hopefully. Today I took an extra .1mg because I was feeling cramping in my lower pelvic area and after seeing the dr. he said that the baby was really low and that I was pretty thinned. He said that everything was ok, but I was just scared and was feeling the w/d some and figured it wouldn't hurt too much to take a rescue dose. It really didn't help I don't think, so hopefully it wont set me back too far.

So depending on how I feel on Sunday, I will either stay at 1mg for a couple more days, giving myself a break, or I'm hoping I can continue my taper schedule to .8mg. I cant imagine it being too hard to go from 1mg to .8mg. Time will tell and we shall see. I will update my progress. Going to .8mg will also be the first time that I will be doing only liquid doses. The liquid isn't my favorite, its hard to keep in my mouth for so long and I also wonder about how its mixing and if its well mixed. I will take .4mg in the am and .4mg in the evening.

Good luck to you other ladies.... and please update your statuses when you get a chance.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:30 am 
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Quick update:

W/d's have been very manageable, especially since my rough night a couple days ago when I took an extra .2mg. I was afraid I set my self back and I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak, but I hope I'm wrong.
Tomorrow will start .8mg, .4 in the morning and .4 in the evening (12 hours later). It will also start the beginning of my liquid only taper due to the dose size. I'm very nervous about this, for a couple of reasons. Psychologically because I won't have a pill under my tongue, I also wonder about the efficiency of the liquid and how it's mixed, and also I hate to keep it in my mouth for 10-20 minutes. I've got a 10 and 7 year old that always seem to need to speak with me as soon as I plop that in my mouth.
Anyways, I am dealing With cravings too. Thoughts like, it'd be nice to just feel good for one day, etc. but I know what that might do to my taper and how many days it's could possibly set me back. When I have thoughts as those, the one day at a time slogan (or even one hour at a time) works very well.

Hope you other ladies are doing well. Will update in a couple of days.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:48 pm 
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So glad to hear things are going good for you!! :D
quick update for me:
I was getting quite concerned because I was getting to be going on a month while staying on 2mg...and this seems to be my trouble spot. The last time I tapered down from 2mg to 1 mg as quickly as I'd been tapering the whole time; I was going through quite a bit discomfort and I messed up when me and my baby's father broke up and had to start all over, tapering back down from 8 mg. So, the past couple months it was very easy to taper down from 8mg to 2 mg but I could definitely feel my body struggling with the 2mg. My doctor advised his normal safe advice: take it slow and my whole treatment program I kindof resented his lack of faith in my conviction and desires to get through this as fast as I could...but I knew at 2mg this time maybe it would just take a while despite my mental determination for my body to stabilize...but after almost a month I was starting to worry I'd never feel comfortable until one morning I realized it had been almost two hours after my normal dosing time and I still hadn't felt the "ills" that I normally did in the morning! :) so for the last 4 days I've been at 1mg. I'm going to keep taking it a little slow...I guess I'm just going to see how it goes...I don't know if I'll stay at this 1mg for another week or the rest of the month, but I'm feelin a llittle more confident that I'll get there and soon enough at least. I'm at 16 weeks and 4 days but I'm hoping this will be over before the 3rd trimester starts.
How's everyone else doing?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:02 am 
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I'm so glad you ladies are doing well! It's so encouraging to be able to read about other mothers and their progress with this!

I've not been doing as well. I've been stuck at 2 mg for a while now. (Since my daughter was sick.) Mentally, I haven't been doing well at all which makes it that much harder to taper down. (Even though I HAVE to unless I want CPS sitting at the dinner table every night.) I think it's really starting to get to me with how stuck I am. There is literally not one single doctor in this crappy area that will even consider prescribing me sub. Even when I told them that I want off and that I need a legal prescription for the inevitable placental drug test. "Methadone is the gold standard in treating opiate dependency during pregnancy." It's all I hear. I want to scream and tell them how ignorant they are to suggest I go from a low dose, partial agonist to a full agonist which causes worse withdrawals. Then I would test positive for TWO drugs and still no script for the sub use.

Sorry for the negative ranting. I'm just stuck in a vicious cycle. I need to dig deep and find my inner super being. Any time now super woman...any time.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:04 am 
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And ladies, please don't stop posting! I need it!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Update for me:
Im on my 3rd day at .75mgs. I had to re adjust how I was doing it, the liquid taper wasn't my favorite. So I've been cutting a 2mg pill into 1/8ths and I'm currently taking it 3x daily. (.25mg x3) Starting in a few days I will take away one of those 1/8th's, then about a week later do it again.
Hopefully it works out ok for me. So far the W/D's are bareable, but I am getting tired of them. I find myself craving enough to make me feel good. I know what that would do though and I'm not going to set myself back, in fact I can't set myself back if I want to be off before I deliver and ive done so well so far.....I don't want this all to be for nothing.
Interesting thing my OB doc told me, I was talking to him about me tapering telling him how slowly I was doing it so not to be in typo much pain/discomfort and he told me i could speed it up if i wanted, that pain the mother experiences doesn't mean the baby experiences it. In fact it was his opinion that the baby does not feel the pain a mother feels. Now I am taking his opinion with a grain of salt..... because what if the baby is in fact sub dependent, then he would feel what im feeling. I just thought what he said was interesting. Food for thought.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:09 am 
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I'm back down to 1 mg. 21 weeks. :)
Plan on getting to .5 before jumping again.

I'm realizing that I did exactly what every program I was in warned me against doing. I traded one addiction for another. It just wasn't noticeable because of how easy and convenient and long lasting suboxone is. But I find myself grieving in the way I grieved when I gave up my DOC 2 years ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:02 am 
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Came across this thread this evening and just saw the update.

Just wanted to say good job! I didn't have to deal with sub w/d while pregnant but I am a mama, and I've successfully been off sub for a year. I know this is tough. But you can do it. I hope and pray for you and your family. Keep us posted!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:23 am 
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Update on me:
35 weeks along and I'm stable at .375mg. I'm starting .25 tomorrow. I've found that I must take it at the same times each day, morning and night, or I start to feel withdrawal symptoms. I will only stay at .25 for about 4 days, then .125 for 4 days, then skip days. I'm not sure if I've said this, but I've found that crushing the pill up and putting it into even piles has been a good way for me to accurately dose. And then I just put the powder into a business card and let it slide under my tounge. It dissolves almost immediately. It's worked good for me.
Hopefully you others are doing well'


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:06 pm 
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(Hey 1234km I saw your message in the other thread too.) You are doing so good! I know those end of pregnancy pains are making it harder, but you're in that home stretch! I wish I was where you are. Oh and boy do I ever relate to your triggers. I just took an extra .25 mg because of a trigger and I'm really mad at myself for it. I know it won't do anything in the way of calming my nerves. This sounds mean, but my step kids are my trigger. The oldest one is very high needs and defiant and we have them half the time. I was expecting to have today off but just got a call that I have to get them from school. It literally makes me panic and hate my life knowing I'll have to deal with those 2, who won't mind at all, torment my toddler, and make unreasonable messes.

Have you asked your doctor about clonidine? I have an apt with a regular doctor on Friday and I'm going to ask for it. I'm just wondering if they'll give it to pregnant women? How are you dealing with your other symptoms? Do you have any kids? Mine and his are definitely making this physical and mental battle so hard.


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