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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:53 am 
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Hello, I have a situation I was on chemo for about a little over a year in that time I was taking up to 8 vicodin a day anyway I got really scared that I could't stop and my body wouldn't be able to handle withdraws so a therapist gave me the # of a sub doctor and I went to see him and was all upset about my situation and he put me on 12mgs for the past 3 months anyway during that time I could haardly stay awake and had sever muscle aches I told him and he said that the sub would have nothing to do with that but I told him I was just going to stop taking it that I could handle it now and he said well you'll have to go down a 1/4 for a wk and then go back up for a wk and so on I was shocked that would take forever so I came home and did some research on suboxone and FREAKED OUT!!!!! oh my God my dose is so high and I've been on it too long so I paniced and dropped my dose from 12mg to 2mg which I did 15days ago I've had horrible anxietybut not sure if it's from that or finding out all the info and for the 1st week I cried uncontrolably and the depression was soooo bad that I was put on an antidepressant. anyway now here I am and I don't know what to do I really don't want to up my dose but I know this has a 1/2 life which I have a really hard time understanding I just really want my life back I spent the last year fighting cancer and I just don't know how much more fighting I have left in me. PLEASE somebody help! I need a hero!
GOd Bless


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:14 am 
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I'm sorry I forgot to mention that I've tried numerous times to get ahold of this doctor leaving detailed messages with no replies except for once when his janitor called me and I explained the situation to him and he said he would have him call me and that was 7 days ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:37 am 
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Hi jac....glad you found us here :)
First of all...calm down :) You're ok....you really are. You are in withdrawals...which if I'm reading right, it's only been 15 days since you dropped down from 12 mgs to 2 mgs. No wonder you are miserable! Here's some good news....from everything I know, you are about half-way through the cycle. If you can hang on another 2-3 weeks, your body is going to adjust to that 2 mgs. From 2 mgs on down though, you should go much slower to temper further withdrawal.
The thing about Sub is when you decide to taper down, anything below 6 mgs/day needs to be done very slowly. It's going to work, it's just that it's a slow process. You went down to 2 mg overnight and your body/brain had no time to adjust.

You could also raise your dose back up to 6 mgs/day (3/4 of an 8 mg tab) and stop these awful withdrawals. Then, as you taper down...DO skip days...do 4mg one day and 6 mgs the next for 2 weeks to drop down to an average of 5 mgs/day over a 2 week period. Do this with lower and lower doses as you drop. Then when you finally jump from a very low dose, you should do much better.

As it was explained to me from romeo here on the board (and I think you'll feel better knowing what's going on since your doctor is not communicating...find a new one!):

Our receptors were very happy being filled with Sub every day. When you took it away, they started screaming and your brain was saying....Whoa! I've not had to fill those by myself for a very long time! It has to practice filling them again...the good news being that anywhere from 4-15 days, your brain will rid itself of any receptors not being used and you will begin to feel better. You made too many receptors mad at once! You need to make just a few mad at a time to minimize withdrawal.

The good news is you DO get through this...you are not going crazy and you are not dying...just feelin' kind of like it :) The bad news (if you wish to take it that way) is that you may need to up your dose of Sub a little just to keep from freaking so many receptors out at one time. Wean yourself off slower. The point of this being...it is not a race to the finish...it is simply a race to win.

We're here to help.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:35 pm 
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Hi there!! Oh wow did I feel your pain and misery when I read your story. I totally 100% agree with Clear Aqua, you threw your body into total meltdown mode by going down so quickly. First let me just say, YAY and congratulations to you for fighting cancer! That's awesome and I wish you so much continued success with that.
It sounds like your anxiety and depression has a hold on you right now, so I just want you to know that this is not permanent! It will pass, but your body has to have time to adjust. Also 3 months is not a long time to be on Subs especially after being on Vicodin, so please don't beat yourself up. It was not a bad way to go to get you off of the vicodin. There are a few options you have right now, and I don't want to overload you, as I don't want to upset you more or add to your anxiety. Just know that you do have options, and they can and will help you to feel better, and get off slower so that you can minimize any of the symptoms you are feeling right now. You've been down from the higher dose for 2 weeks, so I'd say you are half way there, but you may need to up your dose even if it's every other day to help ease these symptoms. Everyone is definitely different though, and many have completely different symptoms at different levels. I definitely suggest reserching a better doctor in your area, my doctor has been detrimental to my well being. This is a fantastic place to be, as many places on the internet can give false information and be very scary. You found a good place with a lot of people with great information and great stories they are open to share that will help you. Just try to relax and know that it's going to be just fine. This is all temporary and will pass. Just hang in there, and try to slow down your thoughts, as I see that they are racing and you are in panic mode. Excersize is very helpful for alot of the body symptoms and also helps your mood.
If you need anything at all I and many others in this group are here for you! You'll see quickly that everyone here can feel what you are going through and will have alot of helpful information for you!
Big giant hugs!! I promise you out of all else it is going to be OK!!!

_________________
We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned,
so as to have the life that is waiting for us.
The old skin has to be shed before the new one can come.
- Joseph Campbell


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Hi jac! Welcome to the forum.

I hope your fight with cancer is going well. I wish you nothing but the best!!

ClearAqua and Rainbow already gave you some great advice, I would just reiterate that 3 months on sub really isn't that long. You don't sound like you were addicted to the Vicodin? Maybe dependent on them?

Honest to God, I don't think you'll have a terrible time coming off of Suboxone. A taper is the key to coming off of Suboxone with the least amount of discomfort. I agree with Aqua and Rain too, you may want to up your dose just a llittle bit so you're not suffering so badly. What you should do is stabilize at a given dose then drop that dose by 10%. Stabilize means wait at a given dose until your wd symptoms have cleared up, I'm not trying to be patronizing, I just want to make sure you understand what we're saying.

Listen, give yourself a little break, up your dose a little and stabilize and please, please come back and talk to us, we can help get you through this.

Sending lots of love and good thoughts your way!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:05 am 
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Thank you SO MUCH for getting back with me, for the last couple of days I was on even a little less then a 2mgs so I did what you said and put my dose up to 2mg now when I take it I almost feel like a little high feeling (which I hate!!) and tired. shoud I just try to go to 1.5mgs for awhile? Do you think I could be over this by the beginning of summer? like i said my whole last summer was spent indoors fighting the cancer and I just want so bad to be able to enjoy this summer and life. I really need a hero to get me thru this I hope you guys are it PLEASE I'm praying so hard that I can get thru this.
Thanks again and God Bless


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:14 am 
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jac,

You're going to get through this!! I was on Suboxone for 3 years, not 3 months and I just passed my 10 month anniversary off of Suboxone. If I can do it, you surely can!!

I wish you wouldn't set a date for coming off of sub, you have to taper, you have to listen to your body and go from there. Setting a date can sometimes introduce more anxiety into the situation than needs be. Be patient, taper down in 10% decrements (or as close to it as you can get), stabilize, rinse and repeat.

From 2mg, I would try to go to 1.75mg. If you have the films, you can do that fairly easily. If you have the pills, it's more tricky. Do you use the films or pills?

Keep praying and stop worrying, you're gonna be just fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:36 am 
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Hi J,

I have been where you are... they are right, your in wd. I dont agree that you have to go up to 6mgs though. I bet you can get by with about 1mg or less. Then sit there till you feel somewhat normal then begin a very slow wean. I did this a few times. They are right that you can get off this drug with more ease if you take it slower. The sub docs that I have encountered know little about gett off sub since their plan is to have you as a client for life. There are Many sites out there that know how to get off sub and what comfort meds are needed to help.

Things like Clonidine, Motrin, magnesium for RLS and some type of sleep aid. I have been ct from dope all my life. Mainly H/Dilies then meth and sub. The anxiety seems to go hand and hand with detox... Hang in there. Not a cake walk for sure.

My major problems with getting off sub was staying clean. I did a strong program but was just not ready for the cravings. Didnt have to deal with them for so long that when it came time that I had to... I had no practice. This is where a good support system is a must.. for me, even with that I just didnt make it. Not saying that sub is the answer for it has its own problems for sure. It seems at this site not many have those problems but dont feel like your alone. many out there that deals/dealt with the same stuff.

I know when I got down to the lower doses I got high as a kite. The good thing is that it didnt last all day. Maybe for a few hours. The tireness, well.. that I didnt find a answer too. Excerise will pay off big time, eating right and try not to isolate.

I feel ya... been there, done that and still wearing that I am addicted tee shirt. Only one way thru it and that is not to take it anymore. Not saying to just stop ct.. why suffer anymore then ness. I hate that a sub doc put you on such a big dose for such a mininal habit.. but that is the trend of the good ole USA. Take a pill for what ails ya.

Keep asking for help, do your own research on sub and weaning. Be carefull of Doc's that just want to give ya another pill. We all have to pay for our choices but hopefully not die from them.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:47 pm 
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I agree with the first few posters - you went down too much and far too quickly. You went from comfortably above the ceiling to too far below it. (The ceiling is generally accepted to be at or around 4 mg). You might be able to go up to 4 mg to suppress your withdrawals. If that does it, then I would stay there for 1-2 weeks, then like another poster said, lower your dose one day, say 2 mg, then the next day 4 mg again, then 2 mg, then 4 again. You probably won't even feel that drop and you'll then be at 3 mg and it will likely be absolutely painless. I also agree with Romeo when he said not to set a date to be off them. Be flexible. The slower and lower you go so the least amount of discomfort you have tapering means the less w/d symptoms you will have when you make the final "jump" - both acute and post-acute w/d's.

Three months is NOT a long time to be on suboxone. Not at all. Take a deep breath and try to stop freaking out. The way you are panicking is just going to make the withdrawals you are feeling that much worse. Give yourself time to taper off. Suboxone is not an evil drug and regretting being on it now does you no good, even if it wasn't the best idea for you. All you can do now is taper off the very best way you can. Don't regret past decisions. Instead live for today and make plans for today and tomorrow.

I hope this helps. Please take care. You'll be okay.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:59 pm 
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Hi Romeo, I was put on the 8mg pills :( I also don't know if I mentioned too that I seen a doctor after this who deals with suboxone who also doesn't really know what to do (my luck) and she put me on an antidepressant because the day I went a whole day wtihout taking suboxoneI felt suicidal it was the most awful feeling I've ever felt in my life becasue a year ago I was fighting so hard to live and now myself going in the opposite direction. Thank you again for everything I really hope this will work. God Bless

Hi Birdie, Thank you too for responding, how much of the suboxone are you on and when did you start your treatment? I also think the suboxone is a good thing for the right people I've read that it's saved alot of lives I just wish that there were better caring doctors out there who also knew more about this drug I felt when I went into this last doctor I knew more then her and more discouraging is that the 2 doctors in my area have never gotten anyone off of it. God be with us!


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