It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:01 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:12 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:39 am
Posts: 6
Hi Everyone,

I need some help big time!!! I have been on 24mg for a little over a year ... which I've just recently learned is way too much and now I've gotta deal with dosing down from a much higher dose than I really need to be at! Anyway, Ive hurt my arm. It's been about 3 weeks and the pain is getting excruciating!!! I went to the Dr. he tried a cortisone injection, didn't work and I started Physical Therapy today.

The pain is just about unbearable and I called the Dr. and they called in a 4 day supply of Vicodin 7.5mg. I know if I choose o take these I need to wait about 36 hrs. or they won't even help. I won't get sick but they also wont have any effect? First off, is that the correct information?

And secondly, if I took those for a few days to help with this pain and got right back on Suboxone ... do you think I could start out at a much lower dose? Like 8mg ... 1 pill a day and then gradually dose down from that 1 pill?

Like I said .... HUGE pain and the Suboxone is not managing it and I honestly do need a pain med short term and I want to get off of Suboxone.

PLEASE HELP ME ... I AM NOT GONNA GO PICK UP THAT RX FOR VICODIN AND I'M GONNA KEEP CHECKING BACK FOR REPLIES!!! THIS IS NOT ABOUT ADDICTION ... IT'S ABOUT HORRIBLE PAIN!!!

THANK YOU SO VERY, VERY MUCH!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:14 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:38 am
Posts: 63
HI TakingItAllBack sorry you are dealing with this and unfortunately last month I was in the same situation. The only difference is that I was 12mg of suboxone and I can tell you that 7.5mg of vicodin is not going to do anything for your pain even if you wait 10days!!!! To get any pain relief I had to take 60mg of OC and 20mg of norcos(10/325) 3X's/day(barely helped). Is the Dr. that is prescribing you the pain meds the same as your sub Dr? If the Dr. knows that you are on suboxone then he should k now that you need a heavy dose of narcotics to ease any pain! If the Dr. is not your sub Dr. then you should explain to him the situation and see if he can help you out in any way. I know this is not the answers you were looking for just be honest with my own personal experience. Sorry ans I wish you the best of luck


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:52 pm 
Also, if you click on the little picture of the computer at the bottom of Joseph's post, it will take you to his profile where you can find his other posts and get to the thread he started when he was in the same situation. You will find a lot of answers there, but what Joseph said above pretty much sums it up.
In regards to your last question, I was off of subs for 2 weeks when I had to take pain meds, and I WAS able to start on a lower dose when I went back on the Subs. I don't know if you can go from 24 to 8mg, but you can start up cautioulsy and use only enough to stay out of withdrawals and prevents cravings. You should probably work with your doctor on that, but I think you will be able to level out at less than 24mg/day.
Good luck.
Lilly


Top
  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:51 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:39 am
Posts: 6
I hope I'm replying to your comments in the right place!!! lol Have to try and find the humor in things :) No, the 2 Dr.s are not one in the same, unfortunately! My Sub Dr. told me it was fine to take the Vicodin and told me to take them together so I would not go 3 days with no Sub and by the time I could take the Vicodin that it may work I wouldn't wanna take lots of it to ease any discomfort I was having from not being on the Sub. After reading a bunch of stuff, I was thinking to myself, this Vicodin isn't gonna help with the pain at all, especially taking it with Sub!!!

Geeze, this is horrible. I am suffering for about 3 weeks now and the PT I started today and have to go to 3 times a week is really hurting!!! I guess my best bet is to not take the Vicodin, if it isn't gonna work, why take it and just try to get off of Sub. as I'm afraid I'm gonna need surgery maybe. I don't think the Ortho Dr. would prescribe heavy doses of narcotics, he only called in 4 days worth! And honestly, kinda embarrassed to ask! My sub Dr. say you can safely go down 1/4 to 1/2 every 7 days ... Honestly Sub hasn't been my friend for awhile. On 24mg I have had major edema in my legs and nod on constantly everywhere ... even driving!!! So, I'm just gonna have to get off of it.

Thank you both so much for your advice and I will read all the post you mentioned. I'd like to write back when I can and hopefully you'll be here to listen and reply!!! Thanks Again


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:58 pm 
Taking....Joseph and Lilly speak the truth based on the best reference you'll get really.....their own experience in very similar situations! So, a four day supply of 7.5 Vicodin...maybe they'll be giving you probably max of #40 tabs. Quite honestly (not recommended of course) you could take 10 of those all at once tomorrow and not feel a thing, no pain relief and certainly no 'high.' You've been on a very high dose of Suboxone for a long time and I just don't see any way 7.5 Vicodin will touch your tolerance or the blockade effect of buprenorphine. I agree with Joseph, it would probably take much more like a week off bupe to receive any effect from the Vicodin.
I'm sorry you're in such a quandry and you're in pain. That is one of the things I do NOT like about Suboxone....we are really pretty much screwed when we find ourselves in an acute pain situation. Further, it seems like it's nearly impossible to have a Subox doctor who is not only knowledgeable about how much drug it takes to break through Suboxone, much less willing to prescribe it! Joseph and Lilly are right....if you hope to get any pain relief your Subox doctor and the doctor treating your injury (if they are not one and the same) are going to have to be fully aware of your predicament. Ideally, you would be advised to stop your Suboxone immediately and be given a script for Dilaudid or a high dose of oxycodone (not percocet) which is available in doses like 30mg or more without the acetaminophen factor to complicate things! Aside from that the only thing that would probably give you any true relief would be IV Fentanyl or something along that line and I realize that is probably highly unlikely unless you were in the hospital!
So that leaves you with a couple of things to consider. If your Vicodin prescriber is not aware of your Suboxone use, that will probably have to change so the proper drug and dose can be prescribed. OR you can think about whether there is any way to tolerate this pain and go through the PT and have it get better using NSAIDS for a while and hope for enough improvement to avoid agonist pain meds altogether. In either case....when the injury is better, you should be able to taper that 24mg/day of Suboxone readily, pretty quickly and with little problems at all.
If your initial question hasn't been directly enough answered....Yes, you're right. You could quit your Sub at any time and take the Vicodin pretty much at any point and have no fear of it making you sick. It just isn't going to do you any good, I'm sorry to say. As far as when all this has resolved....I agree with Lilly. You should be able to just go right back onto the Suboxone at a lower dose (probably even as little as 8mg/day in a single dose) and do just fine.
Again, sorry you're going through this. Let us know what you decide to do or if your doctor(s) formulate a better plan for you, because it sounds like they need to. I'm not a doctor or an expert, but hope we've helped a little bit. Keep us posted.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:07 pm 
Hey...sorry I guess I was posting at the very same time you were Taking. Sounds like you do understand your predicament pretty well. You clarified that you are working with two different doctors but I'm still not clear if your ortho knows about the Sub. I'm guessing 'no' because of the lame dose and quantity of pain med he/she prescribed. I'm afraid, embarassing as it may be, that you'll have to come clean with the ortho. Otherwise there is just no way he/she can take good care of you pain-management-wise, if that makes sense. If you're looking at a likely surgery...it may indeed be best to stop the Sub and switch to full agonists while going through PT and awaiting surgery. That way, by the time surgery is needed, you'll be somewhere near ready in terms of all the Suboxone being cleared out of your system and having your surgery and post op pain issues much easier to manage. However, your opiate tolerance is incredibly high and that is not going to change any too quickly. So I think you're going to have to apprise your ortho of your high tolerance regardless. Hang in there....hope you're able to find some relief with the physical therapy and definitely try NSAIDS and heat and/or cold therapy, or even some of the more unconventional methods such as acupuncture, massage, and meditation/visualization and the like for pain relief.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:29 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:39 am
Posts: 6
Oh My Gosh ... Thank you all so much for replying and helping ... It means the world!!! I was totally upfront with my Ortho Dr. about the Sub. so, yea, guess he's not knowledgeable or doesn't wanna do it, either way I feel so screwed!!! I just get the feeling from him that he isn't gonna be ok with prescribing large doses of narcotics. I think I have 1 of 2 choices ... stop taking Sub for a few days and take the Vicodin then go back on Sub. but a lower dose or just muster everything I have and get thru this pain and also taper a 1/4 to 1/2 every a7 days ... do you think the info I got on the taper sounds right? I'll keep going along with that and in case I do have to have surgery I'll be steps closer to being Sub. free, I guess? Yea, this is such a bad position to be in and like I said, bad reactions to Sub. always in a fog and major edema in my legs ... last bout I had to wrap with layers upon layers of bandages and foam for over a month!!! That's all it could have been and I've heard and seen that happen to people. So, as it stands now, I think I'm leaning toward a rather speedy decrease. I mean I'm on too high a dose of Sub so the initial decrease should be pretty easy because I don't think I probably need that much. What do y'all think? Again, thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I'll keep writing if you'll keep listening :) Also, I called and talked to my Sub Dr. I think I wrote that, she is the one that said to take both at the same time. I've been honest with everyone and can honestly say this isn't about using .... it's about horrible pain!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:18 pm 
Again...sure sorry for your situation! As far as the decreasing of the Suboxone. My experience and many others that I have read/heard about...was that dropping from 24mg, immediately to 16mg for a few days even, then right on down to 12 for a few days or a week, then on down to 8mg/day will likely cause you no distress whatsoever. Myself and many others have found ourselves to feel actually significantly better with coming on down to 8 or 12mg/day, especially given the fact that you've had some side effects with your 24mg/day dosing. I felt nothing but better with dropping quickly down to 8mg/day....no w/d symptoms, no anxiety, no nothing....just better. So in my opinion, you can quit stressing about these drops in dose. If you'll read all over Suboxdoc's blog here, I think you'll find the information from the expert to back up my claims. It's all because of the 'ceiling effect' of buprenophine. Anything you may feel in the way of w/d will likely by more psychological than anything else. A good gauge for you (as it is for me) may be that if you feel like you're in w/d, take a quick look at the size of your pupils. If they are pinned (tiny) your opiate receptors are good and saturated. In opiate withdrawal, the pupils become quite large. So that might help you if you're feeling like you're questioning any symptoms you might be feeling. I can't help but think that regardless of what you do in terms of getting through this acute pain situation you're in, you're bound to feel better if you can lower your Suboxone dose in the near future.
Again, I'm just speaking from what I've learned from Dr Junig's writings and the writings of other members here and my own experiences. By all means, keep posting. Hey there is a section here where Hatmaker shared some acute pain management options which you might want to take a look at and print off for your doctors so they'll have a better understanding of your situation. I can't remember exactly where she placed that, but I bet she wouldn't mind a PM asking her where it is if you have trouble finding it. Hang in there!


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:25 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi takingitallback,

Under the "Links" section there is a post about treating acute pain in bupe/methadone patients. Follow the link and read that paper - it's a pretty easy read and you'll gain a much deeper understanding of the ways to treat your pain. You can even take the paper (from NIH, a reputable source) with you when you see your doctor. You'll see that some doctors DO use full agonists WITH suboxone to treat acute pain.

I just wanted to throw that out there. I hope it helps. Good luck.. Oh, and welcome to the forum. Please keep us posted on how you're doing.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:04 pm 
That's exactly the article I referred you to Takingitallback. Thanks for reminding us where it is located Hatmaker. It 's a great reference!


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:11 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 10:38 pm
Posts: 181
Location: Cleveland suburb
Sorry for your pain. I've been in similar situations over the years and like someone said before that's the one thing that sucks about suboxone. I kinda look at it as a "risk reward" type of thing, if that makes sense. Everyones replies have been correct from my experience. First off your tolerance is huge now, I doubt any amount of hydro will do anything to make you more comfortable even if you waited a week. From what I've read and from many I've talked to the 36 hour thing is more for people on a low dose and want to iv heroin or get high. Secondly 24 mg is a huge dose IMO. I started at 24, which was the norm at the time, and was always in a complete fog. I changed docs at about 18 months and he dropped
me to 16 over a month. I did not feel any discomfort lowering and felt so much better at 16. It wasn't until around 8 to 6 mg's that I started to feel the effects a little. Great advice on the pupils, I've always used my eyes to gauge where I was at (to know if it was mental or physical). Like I said before I've gone through it a few times (never as much pain as your in) and it will all work out in the end. I'm still amazed how well
OTC pain meds work, at least to take the edge off. You'll get through this. Hang in there. Keep posting, there is great advise on this forum from some very informed people.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:51 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
In April I had surgery and needed pain meds for a few days. I was given regular ole vicodin (5's) - HA, not even 7.5's, much less the 10's. I think she gave me 30 of them and I took them all in less than 3 days. That tells you how many pills I took. Taking that many DID help my pain. Of course I didn't feel any sort of high, but my pain was addressed by the vicodin. I also have pain from a heel spur and the meds even helped that - for the first time in months I didn't even feel it.

Now that said, I must add that I tapered my sub dose from 24 mg down to about 6 or 8 mg before the surgery and my surgical pain wasn't that bad. But I wanted to share that it IS possible for pain meds in higher doses to address acute pain.

If you haven't had the chance to look up that paper, here's the link to it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... s17732.pdf

Good luck and please let us know how you're doing.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:36 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:39 am
Posts: 6
Hi There ... Me Again,

Ok, day 2 of down from 24 to 16 and doing just fine in regards to that, but my pain is off the chart!!! I made an appt. with my Primary Care physician for tomorrow. I have a pretty good relationship with him and I'm going to try and explain this whole situation to him. He is aware I'm on Suboxone but honestly, I don't know how knowledgeable he is about this sorta thing. To get it straight, I need to tell him the Sub is bound to the same receptors a pain med would bind to and so the pain med cannot work because of that and that I need something strong enough to knock the Sub off those receptors and benefit from a pain med. And, it's gotta be something very strong. I don't know what to suggest ... Never took anything but lots and lots of hydrocodone. I will try to find that paper you suggested I bring if you think that would help. I'm assuming it explains all of this? Anyway, tomorrow is PT at 9, Primary Care Doctor at 11 and Ortho Dr. at 3:30 ... Geeze!!! Just took a shower and I'm in tears from pain, so I'm making this short, extending my arm out to type is brutal.

If anyone can suggest anything toward this PC appt. tomorrow, it would truly be appreciated. I AM so hopeful, tho, about this decrease and getting to lower doses and not feeling so foggy and having huge legs and feet ... that makes me happy that I've finally committed to dosing down :) and I have y'all to thank for the continued support and information. BIG THANKS!!!

If anyone has time please write me back tonite or in the AM before 10 or so. Thanks in advance. I may not write back tonite because like I said, I need to try and keep my arm as still as possible! Thanks Guys and Girls

Have a nice evening!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:36 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:20 pm
Posts: 635
I don't have much to add except some experience. I have Hepatitis C and consequently, I have to have a liver biopsy once every few years, my most recently one was about a year ago. Usually, they do these while you are awake, but they put you in "The Twilight Zone" with some Fentanyl. Now then, the first attempt at my biopsy was unsuccessful because the Fentanyl had NO effect at all and I could feel everything the doctor was doing and just could not sit still while he tried to shove a needle the size of a ball point pen between two of my ribs to collect a chunk of my liver :shock:

Keep in mind that Fentanyl is 100 times more potent than morphine and on 6mg of suboxone it did absolutely nothing to me and they gave me extra because they knew I was on suboxone, and on top of that, I did not take any suboxone for 48 full hours prior to the procedure.

They ended up having to put me under in order to do the procedure


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:30 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:39 am
Posts: 6
Hello, it me again,

Once again, thanks to everyone! This is the latest ... My experience with the Ortho Dr. was horrible!!! I don't really feel like getting into the play by play of it right now but this is basically what happened ... He took my hand, moved my arm above my head, I screamed, he kept going, I screamed more and then started sobbing. He felt like it shouldn't hurt that bad. Then he started in on the Suboxone. He said why was he asked to call in a RX for a narcotic to a drug addict and if I'm on Sub to not take narcotics then why am I asking for them. Remember, he called in the RX a day before. He wanted my Sub Dr. name and number which I said I'd be happy to give him as I gave her his name and number. And I talked to my Sub Dr. and she said she did not have a problem with me taking the Vicodin because of the pain. So, this Dr. called her and she wrote me and email and said he would not prescribe anymore of it and that because I'm a drug addict my pain tolerance is very low and doesn't match the diagnosis of which he isn't even sure yet! She said he was not disrespectful about it when he called her but he was to me!!! The main thing here is I really want to get off Suboxone. Like I said earlier, it leaves me in a constant fog and I have constant edema of the legs and feet!!! So, here's the latest progress on that and I really wanted everyone's opinion. I am down to 1 a day. Before last Thurs. I was taking 2 a day from an immediate jump from 3. Granted I do have the Vicodin but have been taking very little. For instance, I've not had one since 3:30 AM this morning and am doing ok. Do you think, I'm on day 4 of 1 a day, that I'm gonna make it? Wouldn't I be feeling the signs of WD by day 4? I mean I'm thinkin that the Vicodin doesn't have the ability to bind that much to the receptors, so I don't think it's because of that? Also, I am being very careful with the Vicodin, just so you know. I have someone keeping it for me and giving it to me. The goal here is to not be taking anything. The pain is still really bad, but honestly I feel like this is gonna continue to be a problem being on Sub and trying to get treated. I think it has a huge stigma and that's too bad!!! Please, any input anyone can share would be greatly appreciated. I guess what my big question is ... if I'm on day 4 and not feeling any discomfort, do ya think I can make it thru a dose down that big and be ok? Thanks Everyone. I hope you all have had a nice weekend. I feel a little weak, I must admit but I'm gonna go take a shower ... must shower! haha Look forward to your opinons. And, please don't think I'm gonna get hooked back on the Vicodin, if you read everything prior if you forgot ... this is only temporary. Oh, but is that true that because I took a lot of opioids but haven't had one of a year and a half that my pain tolerance is low? Ok, that's it for now, cuz typing definitely hurts the arm!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:10 pm 
Oh geez.....I'm sorry you were treated so poorly by that ortho. What a jerk! I get the conflict they may have with prescribing opiates to an addict. I even get the hesitancy even moreso with someone on a hefty dose of Suboxone. But the lack of compassion for your situation and the lack of them trying to work with you despite your openness about everything, really is appalling. Sadly, the stigma is strong among healthcare professionals, with very few exceptions. They have the mindset that we are "drug seekers" and that is that. And it's too bad....shameful.
As far as your tolerance to pain being low....well, that's certainly presumptuous of that doctor to make that judgment! How the heck does he know how much pain you're in? It is a VERY subjective thing and I know for a fact that doctors, nurses, etc are taught that "pain is what the patient says it is." PERIOD. Not what we think it should be....not what we personally think we could tolerate...none of that. Now, I will say that I do believe in the phenomenon that the opiate addict does have a 'hyper'sensitivity to painful stimuli, especialy in the beginning stages of getting off the drugs. Regardless, though, you have an injury which is painful, so even if your pain tolerance is low, you're entitled to receiving some pain relief.
As far as how you are feeling with your drastic Suboxone dose reduction. I'm not surprised at all. At 8mg a day, even down from 24mg a day, you are still at a relatively high dose of Suboxone and most people will experience no withdrawal symptoms with getting down to the 8mg. The other thing to keep in mind is that, in my understanding, the doses sort of 'stack' on top of each other because of the long half-life of the drug. Even after several days on 8mg/day, your body still hasn't fully experienced that drop in dose because you still have some 'left over' (if you will) from your previously higher doses. Honestly I would not expect that Vicodin to touch your pain with the amount of Sub you have been on. Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I think you'll get more relief with NSAIDS than you will from that little bit of Vicodin.
I understand your frustration with all of this. It's a tough spot to be in. And one of the reasons I tried to get my dose of Suboxone down as quickly as possible. If you are really sure that it's time for you to get off Suboxone, I must tell you that it probably won't be as easy as you'd like. It certainly hasn't been for me. I got down to about 4 mg with little to no difficulty and then it was little harder getting to 2mg, then 1mg.....but at 1mg the going really has gotten tougher. I've been on Sub for one year and I expect, at this point, to need another 3 months to get from 1mg to zero, in order to get off of it reasonably comfortably. I understand the pain situation you're in puts a wrench in things. But depending on what diagnosis is made on your arm and what the plan is with that (surgery, PT, or whatever) I think will determine what you'll have to do in terms of your Suboxone. Either taking a break off of it for pain meds for a while, then going back on it to do a proper taper and ultimately get off of it. In any case, I can see your dilemma and I'm sorry for you. No easy answer here. Stay strong and don't let the way you were treated make you feel bad.....from what I can see, you have done nothing wrong!


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:30 am 
That ortho sound like an *sshole! Every story I read here about addicts being mistreated by medical "professionals" just gets me more and more pissed off. *end of rant*

Having been in a similar situation as you, IMHO I don't think tapering off of Sub permanently is the answer. If I were you I would not take ANY sub while you are on the vicodon, double up your doses and take them with ibuprofen, and then go back on a LOWER dose of sub when the vikes are gone. I don't think an addict in pain is in a good place to decide to stop sub treatment.
Also, 24mg is a VERY high dose. I think you'll find that if you stay on a lower dose your side effects will diminish.
Good Luck,
Lilly


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:46 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
No one, addict or otherwise should ever have to suffer untreated pain...NO ONE! That's beyond shameful and utterly unacceptable. Have you considered filing a complaint with the licensing agency in your state? Just a thought - I know it's easier said than done, because we don't want to bring attention to ourselves and our addiction, but that doctor needs to know how wrong his behavior and attitude are.

Ok, now that I'm off my soapbox, I wanted to bring up one more point. I read in a very good paper that an addict who receives legitimate treatment for acute pain is NOT at a higher risk of relapse. In fact, it's quite the opposite - it's the addict with UNTREATED pain that is at the higher risk of relapse. I believe it's in that NIH paper I posted under "Links" about treating acute pain in bupe and methadone patients. If you're going to keep that ortho and not try to get a new one, maybe consider printing out that paper (including the 7 pages of references) and giving it to your ortho - especially if you ever need treatment from him again. What's the worst he can do, toss it in the trash? He's already treating you like garbage, but maybe, just maybe, he'll actually read it and learn something.

Good luck.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Sub or not ot Sub
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:09 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 53
Thanks all, a lot of good things said here.

I certainly fall in the category of eligible for pain meds. New to opiates I was on a dilaudid pca for a long time,
and that got me started. Lotsa inpatient & surgeries. Recovering paraplegic.

Despite numerous attemps to avoid opiates once discharged, I did cave in, first to some Oxycodone, and then it went to the
scary stuff including Oxymorphone and about 6-10 of those 30 mg Oxy-Irs. I was in a serious dependence
issue, and terrified of the withdrawl and OD horror stories when I started sub.

I'm 40 some odd days free of the Oxy, and have made two attempts to jump from sub at very low, almost
liquid doses. Made it 13 days before the insomnia took me to the edge...and I caved it.

Fact of the matter is a small dose of sub (2mg or less) helps me out a lot, little as I like its cost or availability.
I don't see myself ever being able to take opiate pills without abusing them one way or another.

I've been doing a lot of the daily excercise (walking, light jogging), attending 12 step meetings and avoiding
alcohol like the plague- which is easy while I'm on sub= no desire whatsoever.

So with my 7 pills left, it looks like I need to make an appt. with my unhappy pain doc and have a little talk
about maintenance. I've already seen how hard they are to come off of, and it ain't pretty. If he doesn't
want to treat me anymore, I'll be forced to have my psych refer me to his partner for sub, after 8 years
with him. I'm not proud of taking it, but it's working (and so it should, some darn potent stuff even .1mg)

But IMHO, it seems to keep me from making more self destructive choices. I don't want to be one of those
people who ends up on a rip-roaring bender after going off the sub.

I keep it pretty quiet and have been to some online NA meetings, but the f2f group here meets ay 9pm.
Where I can pull aside an opiate addict or two with a lot more experience than I have....

So that's my 2 cents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:29 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Runner, my situation was similar to yours. I have chronic pain that needs to be treated and once I started sub I realized I can never go back to using full agonists (except for any acute circumstances that arise). So I'm staying on sub for the chronic pain relief it provides and to keep me on the straight and narrow. Between the sub and a muscle relaxer my pain is manageable. I hope if maintenance is what you want and need that you find the right doctor and that it works out for you. I'm rooting for you!

And yes, we have meetings twice a week in our chat room; Mondays at 9 pm and Thursdays at 2 pm (eastern time). We first always discuss any crisis the members might have then on to the topic - this week's is "coping skills". Hope to see you there.

Hat

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group