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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Ok, here's the back story.

I am 26/male, been clean almost 4 years (and on Suboxone the whole time). To provide a good idea of what the drug has done for me here are a couple simple descriptions.

I went from sleeping outside, begging for money everyday just to get Methadone so I wouldn't get sick, to living in the same house now for 4 years, sleeping in a bed, and doing normal things like watching TV before I go to sleep, brushing my teeth, doing push ups -- "normal."

I went from having no direction in life, no car, no job, no future, to earning a 2 year college degree with a 4 year one on the way, to having a nice car.

I went from having no one in my life, no friends, no family...didn't do normal things like take trips, have family get-togethers, etc, to going to Disney World, taking trips, laughing and BBQing with friends and family, mowing the lawn, cleaning my house, jumping on the trampoline with my nephew.

Ok, so to the non-addict someone might read that and be like "uh, those are just normal things." Yea, they are...but when are you in the throws of addiction, those things don't happen...and when I finally got clean, those simple things I got back were the best of all. And, i'm sure all my addict friends can relate.

Ok, so here is the anger. Please, bare with me. I have never been so angry and I know it sounds stupid but it makes me want to cry.

I read this article: http://www.pressherald.com/news/maine-a ... 06-17.html

It's about Suboxone being smuggled into prisons. Ok, so it's being smuggled. I imagine its because there are lots of addicts in the prisons who want to be able to avoid withdrawal, but that is not the issue. It's the other things the article mentioned that are the issue.

1) "Gives an intense high similar to heroin" -- ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!??!!?!?!?!?!! IT DOES NOT, NOT NOT NOT NOT. Unless you are opiate naive, Suboxone does NOT make you high like oxycodone, or vicodin, or morphine. And even then, it is NOT intense like heroin. NO WAY

2) "It's definitely the drug of choice now in Maine" Oh my gosh, seriously!!!!!!!!! More like the DRUG OF LAST RESORT. I doubt, doubt, doubt, I KNOW it is not the drug of choice! RIGHT?!?!?!!

3) "The drug is a growing presence because it can be relatively easily obtained from a doctor." WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT??!?!?!?!?!?!!?!??!?! More like it's one of the hardest drugs to obtain because not all doctors can prescribe it AND there is a limit.

It's like, did the reporter here talk to ANY REAL SUBOXONE DOCTOR!??!?!!??!?!?!?!?!?! Obviously not. I am in the process of trying to get a hold of The Associated Press. But guess what, as I was online finding a reputable website for PROOF that it doesn't make you high like heroin, I found more JUNK, like this, from an actual RECOVERY WEBSITE:

"Higher levels of the drug lead to more stimulation. Suboxone is typically given in small to medium doses so the patient does not experience an extreme high but rather a mild euphoria that helps ameliorate the craving for stronger drugs. However, if you take large doses of buprenorphine, you greatly increase the high the drug gives and are at risk of becoming addicted to it."

This is not true!!! If anything, high doses increase the antagonist effect and it does not make you high!

I am just so angry. These people are giving a bad name for Suboxone, this amazing drug, that SHOULD NOT, AND DOES NOT DESERVE to be looked at like Methadone does. I saw a twitter post of someone saying "going to babysit a bunch of Suboxone nodding-out zombies." WHAT?!?!!? AM I MISSING SOMETHING?!!?!?!!?!!?!?!!?!?!?!

Ok, I know it looks like I am very angry. I just really had to vent. I am not crazy, I am just really pissed off. I am going to start a blog or something being an advocate for Suboxone, teaching the TRUTH about it. GOSH, it's not fair! I want to be a speaker, going around, talking about this miracle drug that gave me my life back. As I'm sure so many can relate...the change is dynamic, incredible, and almost unbelievable!

P.S. I wrote this fast, so sorry for the punctuation and spelling errors.


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 Post subject: Ok, ok
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:56 pm 
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I did see this, which is better, but that other story has to be corrected.

"Buprenorphine, even though it is an opioid, is relatively weaker than other drugs, like heroin. Even when taken in high doses, buprenorphine does not produce the same effect as other illicit drugs. Therefore, Suboxone is less likely to be abused but still helps treat a patient suffering from opiate withdrawal."

I need some good information that disputes those three points I made in the previous post; time to go search through all the stuff I already have on Suboxone. In fact, I am going to always have this information at hand, from reputable sources, highlighted, ready to go and teach someone the truth at a moments notice.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:35 pm 
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Hey man I understand your angry but all those points you made that make u angry are true and do happen

For example number one people who are in jail are opiate naive, they don't have the means to use every day. And if u give a opiate naive person suboxone its going to get you high as fuck. Because itsp is much stronger than most opiates, and will produce a very strong high.

Yes suboxone is the DOC for many people becauseits a legal high once you find a suboxone Dr and when taken in small doses it will produce the effect like a short acting opiate. Also you are considered clean while on suboxone so you can continue your addiction but to t the people around you think u r clean. Also many people who get drug tested regularly prefer suboxone because it does not show up on your average drug test.

And yes suboxone is a very huge growing presence and is finding its way to da streets more and more now a days.

So this article is spot on with alot of its point's.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:45 am 
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Maleko
I consider myself clean, even though Im on suboxone. I do NOT get high, Ive never caught a 'high' from suboxone. Just relief. Oh yea, and all those (wonderful) "normal" things you talked about in your post, suboxone has helped me enjoy those things as well.
Like you, Ive come a hell ofa long way!!!!!
Nice, isnt it???

It makes me angry too, how one article here or there, can totally misrepresent what suboxone IS FOR ME.
Like the girl on "teen mom"
gimmie a break!!!!!

uggh.
Anyways, Im with ya.
Thats actually ONE of the reasons I started my blog. So my family/friends can see that suboxone treatment isnt the "easy way out" for me,
it doesnt get me high ,,,,
and BECUZ of that fact, Its still hard to NOT go get high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Theres no shame in venting, thats 'recovery' my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:20 am 
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maleko wrote:

1) "Gives an intense high similar to heroin" -- ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!??!!?!?!?!?!! IT DOES NOT, NOT NOT NOT NOT. Unless you are opiate naive, Suboxone does NOT make you high like oxycodone, or vicodin, or morphine. And even then, it is NOT intense like heroin. NO WAY


From what I've heard, in prison the main way to take buprenorphine is IV. Given that the inmates are for the most part not using regularly, and have close to opioid-naive, a shot of even a couple of mg's of buprenorphine might provide a high comparable to using heroin.

Quote:
2) "It's definitely the drug of choice now in Maine" Oh my gosh, seriously!!!!!!!!! More like the DRUG OF LAST RESORT. I doubt, doubt, doubt, I KNOW it is not the drug of choice! RIGHT?!?!?!!


I think they were talking about Maine prisons, though I could be wrong.

Overall the article is pretty weak. In my country though, Suboxone IS the opioid of choice within jails. It's easier to smuggle, and there are many inmates who are actually prescribed Suboxone while in jail. If they can't protect themselves, they're in for deep trouble. People also make a LOT of money selling their Sub in jails. It's pretty common for people to get Hep C from injecting Suboxone in jail, because they have one or two syringes shared among a whole pod / unit, often filed down on the concrete floor to keep it working.

I don't know why they're smuggling in Suboxone over something like heroin though. Maybe it's harder to detect?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:31 am 
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I think I read an article way back that said sub was easier to make into some kind of paste that can be used to color pictures (like from the kids) and apply to the back of stamps. Something about how the tablets are made. I think that's why it's being smuggled in so much - because of the ease of it compared to other drugs that prisons are already familiar with how to detect.

(Oh and as for most people in prison being opiate-naive, I doubt that MOST are like that.)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:01 pm 
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I didn't actually say they were opioid naive, rather most people who use occasionally have near opioid-naive tolerances. But in jail, despite all this talk about smuggling in Sub, there's not enough of a regular supply for people to use on a daily basis, so they're not exactly tolerant. From what I've heard, even here where some people get prescribed Sub and methadone and on-sell it, people who use in jail only get to use it occasionally, hence their tolerances are low enough for them to get high, esp if they IV or smoke it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:29 am 
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tearj3rker wrote:
I didn't actually say they were opioid naive, rather most people who use occasionally have near opioid-naive tolerances. But in jail, despite all this talk about smuggling in Sub, there's not enough of a regular supply for people to use on a daily basis, so they're not exactly tolerant. From what I've heard, even here where some people get prescribed Sub and methadone and on-sell it, people who use in jail only get to use it occasionally, hence their tolerances are low enough for them to get high, esp if they IV or smoke it.


Um, I actually wasn't even responding to you, TJ. In fact, I hadn't even noticed that you said anything about it at all.

Bboy said that "people in jail are opiate-naive", as though it were across the board. I was just saying that a lot of people going into jail are addicts with lots of tolerance. That's all.

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 Post subject: Hmm
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Hey guys,

My irritation and anger has subsided over the past couple days; I appreciate your posts in response. Yes, if you IV Suboxone it can make you high. I would just think that heroin or hydromorphone would make you more high. But, like you said, it's probably because at the moment, Suboxone is easy to smuggle in. Nevertheless, it gives Suboxone a bad name. I want this drug to become MORE accepted and seen for what it REALLY IS to so many people. My goodness, I thought my life was OVER. I thought I was destined to be a drug addict, and this medication saved my life in ways I never, EVER, EVER thought possible. I am just so thankful for it, and so when I read stuff like this it really pisses me off.

At the very LEAST, I wish these articles would kind of "shift" the way they explain things. Even if every thing in that article is true, it could be presented in a different context to show that, ok-these things are happening, but it's PRISON. And, more often then not, this medication has saved so many people's lives. I want this medication to be seen in the same light as, say...vaccines. They eliminate diseases, problems, people dying, etc. So does Suboxone. It transforms losers into winners! I am going to look into a getting a side job for Suboxone advocate, or educator, or something. I don't know.

One thing I know is this, at the end of my addiction (like many people who are at the end of their rope), I was taking methadone. About 100 MG a day. And let me tell you, Suboxone is completely different. With methadone, I had my drug, I had my high, and I did nothing with my life. Suboxone just takes away all desires for illicit substances, including alcohol, and allows me to live my life as if I have never even done drugs, and that is amazing - as I'm sure many of you can relate.

Thanks for the replies


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 Post subject: Re: hmmm
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:35 pm 
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Well said Maleko, I like it.

-Gb


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:18 pm 
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Yea I guess what I meant by people in jail being opiate naive was being focused on people in prison not jail there's a big difference.

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 Post subject: chalk and cheese
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Hi,.Going back quite a few years a mate took part in bup trials to determine it's effects on "x" addicts. It was administered via injection, 70% of the chosen group, thought they were given heroin,,,Heroin on discovery was praised as a cure for morphine/opium addiction.
But apart from the pro and cons, fact's etc,, Maleko, your idea to raise public awareness is something well worth pursuing, go for it! I wish the world would change the angle of reality towards narcotics, and look at the issue on a more broader scale, cause prohabition laws really create more problems, than the use of the substance does itself, way more.
cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Maleko I see were your coming from but trust me suboxone is not a godsend. Wait till you try and get off suboxone, its a great drug but I truly believe whether it be suboxone or methadone that it should not be prorate as this great medical cure. Sure we get off our Doc and get are life's back together and that's a great thing but we are still chained to these medications and without them we cannot continue that active life. There has to be a better way to help opiate addicts without the ball and chain that come along with opiate replacement drugs. One thing I was interested in learning more about is were they induce a long sleep why the drug is rid off and you don't have to del with the worst part of withdrawal. If anyone knows more about this please contact me and help me learn more about this form treatment.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Quote:
One thing I was interested in learning more about is were they induce a long sleep why the drug is rid off and you don't have to del with the worst part of withdrawal.


Could you re-phrase or break these up into separate questions, because I can't understand what you're asking.

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Last edited by hatmaker510 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Something like only 5% of addicts who detox stay clean. Getting thru withdrawal is not the hard part. I can just as easily say trust me suboxone is a godsend because for me it was and continues to be. Not selling my possessions for a fix in 3 years. Plus I have tapered down and that too has been pretty easy. Sorry you had a bad reaction to sub bb, but for many of us it is a solution when there was not one before

-gb

Bboy42287 wrote:
Maleko I see were your coming from but trust me suboxone is not a godsend. Wait till you try and get off suboxone, its a great drug but I truly believe whether it be suboxone or methadone that it should not be prorate as this great medical cure. Sure we get off our Doc and get are life's back together and that's a great thing but we are still chained to these medications and without them we cannot continue that active life. There has to be a better way to help opiate addicts without the ball and chain that come along with opiate replacement drugs. One thing I was interested in learning more about is were they induce a long sleep why the drug is rid off and you don't have to del with the worst part of withdrawal. If anyone knows more about this please contact me and help me learn more about this form treatment.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:43 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
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One thing I was interested in learning more about is were they induce a long sleep why the drug is rid off and you don't have to del with the worst part of withdrawal.


Could you re-phrase or break these up into separate questions, because I can't understand what you're asking.


I believe he's asking about a treatment that allows the patient to be put in a sleep state during the bad part of withdrawal. I've never heard of such a thing, but it is something I've thought of.


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 Post subject: rapid detox?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:00 pm 
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Knocking out durring acute w/d, was done back in the late 1970s, a pal who after devouring the lions share of a 1/4 pound of white tiger with-in a month, mannnn,,,,,! was he a farking mess, ended up tied down to a hospital bed knocked out for over a week. He said nurses recon he was thrashing like crazy, also he did'nt remember much of his two week stay, but he looked bloody terrible, and was still very uncomfortable, compared to us {we went cold turkey} when he came home.
I don't know what the go is these day's but there are clinics that offer that sort of treatment and the method may be a little less extreme. But also you'd have to do a narcan test to get methadone treatment in those days. So it was a pretty cruel set up for people seeking help,,, thing's have changed a little.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:57 pm 
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Sorry hat, yea I was reading about this Dr/medical center that does this form of opiate addiction treatment. Basically what it was about is they induce you in a deep sleep why you quit taking opiates so you don't have to feel or be awake for the worst parts of WD. And I'm wondering if anyone has heard/knows anything about it. And they are doing it up to date now not just in the 70s.



Glenn bee yes its a solution but its a short term one, unless you plan on being on methadone/suboxone for ever. This includes myself even if I'm on it for pain too. Without it I cannot continue to live a happy sober life and that's what I'm getting at in a sense we are still chained to a opiate. But there has to be a better way is all I'm saying.

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