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 Post subject: Pissed OFF!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:58 pm 
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I have a family doctor who I will call Dr. F whom I have seen for years, now. He doesn't accept insurance, and although I have insurance, I prefer to see him and spend the $70 than go to another doctor. I have developed a relationship with this doctor over the years and I trust him and I like him. Finding a doctor that you genuinely like and trust is a hard thing to come by in these days and ages and I am fortunate enough to make a good salary that I can choose to see him as opposed to someone who is in my Avmed plan. Don't get me wrong... I'm not entirely stupid... I HAVE gone to other doctors to see if I liked them and to see if there was potential to develop the same kind of repoire as I have with Dr. F, but in the last six years that I have had this health insurance, I have not found a doctor I like as much as I do Dr. F.

He's a family practitioner and not some quack who doles out pain meds like candy unlike a LOT of the places down here. He's a damn good doctor and spends a good 15-20 minutes with me each time I go in. I get my anti-depressants from him as well as the occasional sleeping pill. He also prescribes me 90 Percocets a month and has for YEARS for my herniated disks. Never in the years that I have seen him that he has prescribed me those Percocets have I EVER asked for something stronger or for anymore than 90 pills a month. Besides, 90 Percocets wouldn't last me two days with my addiction. That's NOTHING! My DOC is Roxicets by the mouthful. 45 Percocets in one day would merely stave off the cravings and give me MAJOR tummy issues. So, believe me when I tell you, I do NOT see him for those 90 measly Percs.

Well, he recently hired another doctor (not an MD... what's it called? DO?) and three visits ago, I saw her instead of Dr. F. We'll call this new doctor Dr D. Well, I went in and she reviews my chart and history and this starts in on the amount of Percs I'm taking. Image I told her that I didn't take them every day (I didn't... I used them when I ran out of Roxi's) but sometimes the pain was so bad that I took more than my allotted three per day. I got the addiction lecture, blah blah blah. I decided then and there that I did not want to see Dr. D again. If I'm going to pay $70 a month to see a doctor, I'm going to see the doctor I LIKE. Again, the whole reason I forgo someone else on my insurance plan is so I can see Dr. F, not Dr Question everything that Dr. F has done for me over the years.

Today I went in to get my refills and talk to Dr. F about the new anti-depressant he put me on last month. When I checked in, I specifically told the girls at the desk that I wanted to see Dr. F. I have told them this the last three times I have been in there because I do not like Dr D and I'm paying them and they work for me so I get to see who I want to see so there.

While sitting in the waiting room, Dr. D comes out the magic door to call my name. As I followed her down the hall to the exam rooms, I reckon she sees the note that says "Seeing Dr F". She kinda waved me in the room all bitchy like, flings my chart in the holder on the door, and with the shittiest attitude in the world says, "He'll be in momentarily." I'm thinking, "Fuck you very much, jealous bitch."

So, I see Dr. F and he's pleased with my progress on the anti-depressants, takes me off the Temazepam (seriously.... I might as well popped a Pez it was so ineffective) and put me on Clonazepam. He then, as always, starts telling me dirty jokes. I am a LOUD person.... so naturally, I have a LOUD laugh. So there we were, patient and doctor, behind closed doors, roaring with laughter for about 20 minutes.

Dr. F then escorts me to the check out and tells me he'll see me next month and to take care and blah blah blah. Well, Dr. D was standing behind the counter about ten feet away, whisper-talking to one of the employees. I didn't hear the entire conversation, but I got "she" out of it and "addict" out of it. At that time, the employee and Dr. BitchAssHo look at me. Dr. D then walks towards me to go to her office and turns around to the employee and says, "BIG TIME!" Also, she has NO FUCKING CLUE what an addict is. Please. Three Percs a day does not equal a "BIG TIME" addict. Clueless, dumbass, shitty little bitch ass ho with no clue whatsoever. PAH-FUCKING-LEASE!

Anyway, I. WAS. ASTOUNDED! I KNOW she said something to the effect of "That woman is an addict" to the employee and and then added the punch of "BIG TIME" for extra effect. I wanted to fucking punch her. This woman has seen me ONE TIME. She is not at all familiar with my medical history nor does she know me in any way, shape or form.

Additionally, she does NOT know the meaning of addiction. Three Percocets a day does not equal addiction.

I am going to write a letter to Dr F and tell him what she said and I thought it was unprofessional, demeaning. I intend to write her a letter telling her how unprofessional and unethical her actions were uncalled for. I will tell her that as a professional, she should know better than that and her behavior was, at the very least, vile.

I am going to send this letter to her anonymously because again, I do not want to jeopardize my doctor/patient relationship. I'm going to tell her that she needs to go grow up and act like the adult she is. Otherwise, I will report her to the AMA.

I'm going to doctor this letter up a little.... or a LOT before I send it. Then I'll post it again here and I hope you will give me your opinions on it.

Again, I'm so pissed off I am mad as a hornet. Here I am "clean" and she has the audacity to call me an addict. Will you all be perfectly honest with me and tell me how it sounds or if I should do it or not?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Oh yeah.... For the record.... My mother has serious osteoarthritis and takes the Percs for her back. My hubby takes them here and there for his occasional bouts when working around the house. I have NO INTENTIONS of EVER taking another one and I have made it perfectly clear that I do not want to know where they are. And like I said, 45 in a day would do me no good anyway. I really didn't even want them, but Dr. F just refilled my scripts and I didn't think about it.

So...... Opinions? Suggestions? Help? Cookies?


This is an important announcement. I did not proof this post before posting, so if there are posting errors, don't push the postman.

Thankyouverymuch.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:17 pm 
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I am totally confused here. It may be me as I've said before I'm far from perfect and sometimes miss the obvious. I read your post twice, but I'm still missing something. I have to be.

I thought that you were on Suboxone, because you are addicted to opiates - in other words you are an addict. Is that not correct, or do I have this all goofed up? If I do have it correct:

1. Why would you be seeing a doctor for percocet?
2. Why would you be upset for your doctor thinking that you are an addict if you admit that you are addicted to opiates?

Honestly, although I can be sarcastic at times, I assure you I am not trying to be sarcastic here. I'm honestly confused. And concered. Actually lots of both.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:53 pm 
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I'm sorry but I have to agree with everything that don said. I won't repeat what he said, but I think they are good questions and something for you to think about.

PS - Wouldn't a copy of the letter to Dr. D be pretty obvious that it was you? (If you decide to send it....I wouldn't). Besides the fact that it should be the responsibility of Dr. F to deal with his employee. He may just discuss it with her without showing her the letter. And again - IF you decide to write the letter - I would wait until you cool off. The best letter, and one that will get the best response, is not full of anger, but rather should be made up of reasonable, rational points.

Just my take.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:05 pm 
Has that doc ever heard of HIPAA laws? I mean for her to see your chart and act as your doctor, even for one visit, and then whisper about your medical issues to someone in the front office is a violation of federal law, not to mention extremely rude and unprofessional. So, in that regard, a calm, professionally worded letter would be in order.

But I'm wondering, if you like Dr. F enough to pay cash to see him, why wouldn't you feel comfortable sharing with him that you are in addiction treatment? And why would you let him give you percocets (even though I know you are correct that they would not "do" anything for you?)

Also, Clonazapam (or anything else ending in "pam") is contrindicated for Suboxone patients...another good reason for Dr. F to know what medication you are on.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Libra,

I would really think twice about writing the letter and I agree if you do decide to write it wait a few days untill you calm down a little. I would however talk with Dr. D next time you see him/her. I agree with you as far as being pissed off I would be to, i'm glad you held it together while you were there :)

As far as filling a script for percs from one Dr. and Suboxone from another, I have to urge you to be very careful. Computers now and days are amazing, there was a post the other day where someone got opiates from a surgery and didn't tell their sub dr. and got shut off and another one where someone went to the ER/ED and the Dr. already knew they were on subs from the computers. I would hate to see you get shut off :oops:

Also I have to mention giving your percs to someone else can also be dangerous what if something happened to them, or they got caught with them and blamed you, or they get addicted? Just a thought I can't say I haven't done the same thing but did want to mention it.

I am very sorry for the way you were treated today that really sucks, think about it for a day or two, and then make a decion about how you want to handle it??? Good luck :D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:18 pm 
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What i posted below is if your are on suboxone but if you are not i apologize 100%

Im sorry but you are on suboxone! but pay a extra 70 a month to go to a dr for pill you dont even take???????????


What do you think your suboxone dr would say to you if they knew what you are doing? I mean honestly how do you wants us to fell sorry for you if you are lieing your ass off to get benzos and percs then give the percs to FAMILY TO TOP IT OFF. I dont know about you but after everything u went threw with addiction who in there right mind would give their own mom painkillers along with your husband do you want them to be in the same boast you are? Im not trying to be mean but honestly im not gonna fell sorry for anyone who is going to one dr for sub and another for painkillers and benzos. you get mad at someone calling you a addict but look at what you are doing. your going to different drs for different meds. what if your sub dr finds all this out were does that put you then?

In my eyes i think you should get caught with what you are doing cause its so wrong an it makes me so upset to think you are takeing advantage of people like this who are thinking they are helping you but all they are doing is putting you an everyone around you at risk it sure seems like!

I REALLY THINK YOU NEED TO STOP SEEING DR. F AN GET OFF THE BENZOS ASAP AN NEVER EVER GET ANOTHER SCRIPT FOR PERCS!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:59 pm 
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Lessee if I can answer everyone's questions....

First, ma HATES going to the doctor. It's an ordeal for her because she has COPD and simply walking around the house gets her out of breath. She has them prescribed for her, too, so I'm not foolishly medicating my own mother. She takes about a third of a 10 mg about once a week.

Secondly, I went to the doctor to get my anti-depressant meds, not for Percs. It was a follow up appointment and I really didn't think about getting the Percs.... I just got a refill of all my scripts... blood pressure, anti-depressants, etc. When I saw the script for the Percs, I was like "Oh shit!" ..... but I came home and gave the script to ma... Again - they do nothing for me. My Ma and my husband would NEVER let me get my hands on them if/when she did get them filled, anyway.

Third, very little people know that I am addicted to opiates. I am ashamed and embarrassed about it and I don't want Dr. F to know. I know it's silly, but I just don't want him to know.

As far as the letter goes, I would write it anonymously. I would be very cagey about it so that there would be no way that she would ever find out it was me. I wouldn't mention my name, the date I was in there, the meds I was prescribed, etc. I'm an excellent letter writer and can compose one in a manner that make her sit around and think "who is this person...." I would also wait a month or so before I wrote it to further confuse her. Hell, I've thought about confronting her face to face the next time I go in.

The "pams" I'm prescribed by Dr. F are also prescribed by my Sub doctor. I have a really high tolerance for meds.

I'm just angry right now. I may not write the letter at all. I may write it out just to get it out of my system.

I have meds in my house my jowl

lkkkkk


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:20 pm 
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I would write the angriest letter ever and then wouldn't send it. I would then wait a few days, re-read the letter, take out all the nasty stuff and figure out how to calmly get my point across professionally and nicely, but still direct and firm. What happened was in fact wrong and I don't blame you for being angry at all. I think you are pretty much already on this track regarding the letter anyways.

In terms of the rest of it, unfortunately, I have to agree with the others. I think what you are doing is wrong and I think it is an abuse of the relationship you have with this doctor you respect and love. You are no longer in active addiction but the behavior you are exhibiting is that of an active user in my opinion. Don't get me wrong because I think all of us have those from time to time. I am not trying to come down on you or call you out. But since you are no longer in active addiction and you now have choices as to how you treat others, I would suggest really thinking this one out. Your reasons for not wanting Dr. F to know are valid and I totally understand. Early in my sub treatment I didn't want my Dr. F to know either. He ultimately found out and I am glad he did because he was able to better treat me and I felt uncomfortable not telling him. But in the end, I felt horrible about not just telling him. I think it was insulting to him as a person and as my physician because he had always been so trusting and forthright and nice to me. Why couldn't I just do the same for him? He certainly deserved to be treated with more respect than I treated him with. He deserved to hear it all from me, no secrets, no hiding, no getting caught in it. Maybe I am too sensitive, but I still feel horribly for this today and it has been 3 years now. I still feel ashamed and guilty for my behavior. I would like my doctor to be my doctor until the day I die. I risked that and you are right, it is very hard to find a good doctor.

What you are doing, even with the best intent to help your family, is wrong. Your mom may not like doctors or getting out of the house, but you shouldn't be putting your suboxone treatment at risk because she doesn't want to go in for her own treatment. You are also condoning her not taking proper care of her health. If your husband has back pain, he ought to go in and get his own meds too. Is it really worth getting booted from your sub program? Going through withdrawal? Potentially ending up back in active addiction? Does your family think it is worth it because if they do, I would question the health of your relationship with them both.

I think you were wronged and I also think that you are wronging others including yourself. Taking 3 percs per day CAN actually be an addiction and it can launch an addiction. There are people who take 3 per day for a month and get withdrawals from them. Seriously. Everyone is different and 90 percs per month for how long now? Dr. D actually sounds like a better doctor who may care more about the health of the patient. Dr. D may also just be a jerk andn ultimately behaved quite poorly. But quite frankly, I would prefer her over Dr. F just based on her willingness to tell you something that is difficult to tell a patient and for caring more about your health than potentially offending the patient by discussing addiction with them. (I don't agree with the public behavior she displayed at the end).

I would just suggest you think on things a little bit and think about how you would like to be treated by others and whether or not what you are doing is behavior you would be or are proud of.

Just my opinion.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:34 am 
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I have observed for many long years now that people seem to get the most upset at someone when that someone tells them something that they deep down know is true but that they wished wasn't. I can't at all agree with what you say this Dr. D did, but it's hard to argue with her assessment. She pretty much has figured out that you have an addiction problem. I know that's hard to take. It's hard for any of us. Who the hell wants to be an addict? I certainly don't. But I am. I see you arguing with not only what she did but with her diagnosis - as if she is wrong. How dare she claim that you are a drug addict? - but, unfortunately, she's right. You really can't argue with that. In fact, based on everything you've told us, your addiction is "big time," like she says. If you want to try to just base it on the 90 percs a month that she is positive about, well, okay, there certainly are patients who take that amount of opiates and do not suffer from addiction. Unfortunately, you are just not one of them. Any way you slice it, Dr. D has her shit together and has figured you out and I think that's what pisses you off the most. Am I right?

This all just sucks, doesn't it? I mean, who the hell planned on being an addict and getting into this whole mess? I certainly didn't, and I'm sure you never did either. And now you have to admit to people you look up to (like your doctor) that you are an addict. But, ya know what? You are doing nothing more than telling them that you suffer from a disease. Would you hesitate to tell your doc that you have cancer? If you went to your OBGYN and he discovered cancer, you'd tell your doc, right? This really is no different. Addiction is a disease. You did not rob a bank. You did not molest a child. You did not get arrested for beating up your husband. You have an illness. You are addicted to opiates. Let yourself off the hook. Give yourself a break. Some people get diabetes, some get hi blood pressure (sorry I could not resist - ((inside joke)) some get cancer and you got addiction. That doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you stupid. It doesn't make you anything other than human. It really is okay. You have a disease called addiction - nothing more.

Now, I don't know what sort of dynamic is going on with you and this other doc. I just would caution you that from your story, you did not actually hear what she said. You're putting several corners of this puzzle together and trying to get a conclusion without having all of the pieces. You may darn well be 100% correct. But you may not. At the very least, you didn't actually hear her say what you think she said. I also will tell you that I'd bet you a dollar unless you send a letter that makes no sense and in hardly no way references what took place, this doc is going to figure out who sent that letter. She may not be able to prove it - just like you can't prove what she said - but she will have her suspicions. If she figured out you had addiction going on, she will figure out you sent the letter.

I also worry that you are on a treatment course to be off of Suboxone in a relatively short time. With having an active source for oxycodone still available, that's a bad sign. I don't know if that enters into things or not. It sure would if it were me. If it were me I'd be thinking that I don't want to give up those percs because I may need them if things get too rough when I no longer have the Suboxone. That's how us addicts think. In fact, that's yet another reason why you need to come clean with those docs who are taking care of you. They need to know about this - all of it. Then there is that whole benzo thing. You say that "I have a really high tolerance for meds." And I'm sure that's true - but it is not as if your body has a higher tolerance than anyone else, it's just that you have taken so many drugs for so long that you tolerance has gone sky high. That is just yet again another aspect of addiction. Once you are off the drugs for a long enough time, your tolerance will return to normal or near normal.

Yeah, this is all a whole lot worse than anyone would want to admit isn't it? The thing is, you really can get through it. There are all sorts of us here on the boards that have been there, or still are there. You are not alone in all of this and most importantly none of this makes you a bad person - just a sick one. It's all about baby steps forward and something tells me that you took a couple giant ones today. Yeah, it sucks, yeah it pisses you off, yeah it makes you want to scream and swear and write letters, but it also is just part of the recovery process. The fact that you already have read some pretty hard things to read and are still standing to face them rather than make excuses or run is huge!!! Perhaps the next step will be rather than "roaring with laughter for about 20 minutes" at your next appointment, you and Dr. F can have a serious heart to heart talk about your deep dark secret. Until then we are all here to help in any way we can.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:08 am 
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Where I live, oxys are a dime a dozen. I could go to my neighbor's house and get them if I wanted them. My husband is/was prescribed Percocets for his back as is my mother. Although they don't take NEARLY the quantities I took. Avoiding oxys down here is like avoiding sand at the beach. Again, I live in Oxycodoneville, USA. I've been seeing Dr. F for really long time. Way before I got addicted to oxys. It just evolved that way.

What Dr D said, yeah... she's absolutely right. I AM an addict. But her conduct, demeanor and lack of professionalism is what got my goat. Then again, maybe you're right... maybe she wasn't talking about me. However, I like to think myself an intuitive person and what I heard and the subsequent actions led me to the conclusion that she was referring to me. Hell, I don't know. Maybe I'm paranoid. The bottom line is is that she was COMPLETELY out of line and TOTALLY unprofessional. If she does have me figured out, I am cool with that. I'm an adult, I'm facing my dragons and I also have my shit together. But, I think her behavior was not only unprofessional, but downright immoral. I don't give a rat's ass who she was talking about. Maybe I will confront her during my next appointment to see what she has to say. Maybe it's a misunderstanding. I don't know. But just because she has her "shit together" does not in any way make her wiser than me.

As for my rapid taper? That is also my choice. And I have to say that so far, I'm doing good. I managed only 8 mgs today. If the method I'm on doesn't work, I'll try another method. There is no "one size fits all" cure for addiction.

LOL! I feel like buying a bunch of Roxi's on the street and walk in that office and slamming them on the counter and saying, THIS is addiction. THIS is what I take in one day. Then, I'll take that measly script that was written today and write the word "BULLSHIT" across it and tell her that she doesn't know addiction from dick.

It would be fun.... But then again, I don't want to jeopardize my relationship with Dr. F. Or risk going to jail...

I am going to write the letter, though. I'll give it a couple of months for her to forget about it and leave all names out to protect the not so innocent. I just cannot STAND people who stand on pedestals and look down on others. And I get no greater satisfaction than bringing these types of people down a notch or two. Now, whether I send it or not is another story... I can easily piss her off without even bringing oxys into the question.

Hell, that might be ever MORE fun! LOL!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:26 am 
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I don't think you're really hearing anything that was said here. You seem to me to be in denial and just plain angry. I understand that, knowing - really knowing - deep down that we are addicts causes all sorts of emotions, including possibly anger.

I don't believe that doctor thinks she's better than you. I think, regardless of how badly she handled the situation, had only your best interest in mind. Maybe she's got a lousy bedside manner, but her coming straight out to discuss it with you was for your benefit. She pegged you as an addict - which you are - but for all she knows, you're still in active addiction. Because you haven't told your doctor that you're in recovery. Instead of being ashamed of being an addict, maybe you should be proud because you got help and are in recovery.

No matter how you justify giving out those oxys to your family, you're still playing doctor - typical active addiction behavior. It's simply not your place to treat your husband and mother. And like someone else already said, by treating her yourself and failing to take her to the doctor is at the very least helping her to not get the proper treatment for the COPD.

I know it's hard to hear these things, but we're all just being honest with regard to the way things are. I'm sorry if it hurts you or pisses you off more. But the truth is, you really need to hear what's being said here - REALLY HEAR IT. And until you do, you're recovery will be at risk.

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Last edited by hatmaker510 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:58 am 
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I agree with Hatmaker.

Also, even if you wait to send that letter and take identifying information out of it, she will read it and go "see" and think of all your behavior as protecting your addiction. You are going to confirm any negative belief she may already have about addicts because your letter will be intended to take her down a notch. I work with doctors for a living and trust me, it takes a lot to take them down a notch as many are highly arrogant. Unless you wrote the most perfect letter, it will only look poorly on the writer in their eyes.

If you really want to take her down a notch, you would set an appointment with both Dr. F and Dr. D together and you would admit to being an addict and being on suboxone. You would then calmly state what you thought you heard her say last time you were there and to whom and you would tell them both that if in fact that is what she said, it was unprofessional, felt very judgmental, and it was only more embarassing. You would tell them that you go there because you trust your doctor and if you would eventually tell anyone about the addiction it would be him, but when treated in that fashion, you would be more likely never to return. i.e. the behavior could be harming addicts not helping. Then you would proceed to tell them what addicts "might" be receptive to in your opinion. If you want them to hear your message, you will have to state it in such a way that doesn't put them on the defensive, because JUST LIKE YOU RIGHT NOW, when you feel attacked, you put the defenses up and don't hear a single word that others are really intending for you to hear. The only person you will take down a notch otherwise is yourself and other addicts will get drug down a notch right along with you.

I didn't know you were trying a rapid taper of the suboxone. I don't know how long you have been on suboxone. But now that I know that, in my opinion, you are protecting that perc prescription and it really has nothing to do with your mom or your husband because neither of them need you to get it (like you said). That means you are protecting the perc prescription for other reasons. Either way, the cat will be out of the bag very soon because if you are being prescribed sub and just filled a script for percs, most likely a conflict report is going to be sent to both doctors and soon they will both know you are filling both scripts covering the same time frame.

In my opinion, you aren't ready to get off suboxone. I would highly advise you against it. I suspect at this point you have a very high chance of relapse without the suboxone.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:27 am 
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Ok. First of all, I am NOT in denial. I know full well that I am a first class addict. I am not disputing that fact.

Secondly, Dr. F is my doctor and has been for a very long time. That is not going to change. He is not my "source" so to speak. I went to a pain management clinic for the hundreds of Roxis I got each month. Dem dar over-see-ers ain't doin' a vury good job at over-see'in', iffin you ask me. In all seriousness, Dr. F was my doctor looooong before I ever even took an opiate of any kind. The only reason I got the stupid script for the Percs this time was because he refills ALL my scripts on a monthly basis. I didn't even think about it. But, what I do with the script is no ones business. I can assure you that I'm not going to be taking them.

Lastly, I'm over the all the stupid shit that happened yesterday. Dr. D is not my doctor and never will be. She was rude and unprofessional and that, my friends, is a plain and simple fact. Although at my next appointment I may pull her aside and tell her that if she wants to gossip about patients, she should AT LEAST wait until they've left the premises. Sheeesh! Besides, I'm way prettier than she is. (Prolly smarter, too)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand...... For those of you who are poo-pooing my taper plan, I will say this again....There is no one cure all for addiction! I would bet the farm that there aren't two people on this forum on the same plan. I am choosing to do it this way because I do not want to be on ANY opiates, and the quicker I get off, the better. If it doesn't work, then I'll be the first to admit it and try a long-term maintenance. It's that simple. Plenty of people have been successful going cold turkey. Plenty of people have been successful in doing a rapid taper. I will consider everyone's advice and opinions, but slamming my method is the one thing up with which I will not put.

Now, I'm going to go hang out with two very handsome sheriff's at the jail here at the courthouse. The coffee is surprisingly good!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:10 pm 
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First things first what that dr.d did is very wrong,hurfull,rude and just terriable. BUT WHAT IF SHE DIDNT SAY THAT ABOUT YOU???? You dont want to jump to conculsions with something that can turn out to be a big mess. Shes a dr an went to school for many years im sure she will figure out that you wrote that letter over time no matter how long you wait. If you truely want to say something say it to dr.f face to face and let him take care of it. if dr.f is so great to you then he will not let that stand at all but let it be him to talk to dr.d then you cause you already have your mind made up she did say those things an no matter what you do you will always have this anger towards her now. an a lil talk with her could turn out to be a nightmare with how much anger you have towards this dr right?

as of not telling dr.f about your addiction! Do you think he would in his right mind be giving you benzos if he found out you were on suboxone? You may not think so but if something happens with the mixture of sub and benzos your beloved dr.f could lose alot if something serious happen to you an i dont think anything will but if the wrong person finds out this info he could lose everything. now is that fair to dr.f your not only putting yourself at risk you are putting your drs at risk.

you have to tell dr.f about your secret period. he can not truely help you if he doesnt know this info. no matter how bad u dont want him to know this he has to so he can treat you with proper meds instead of giving you benzos.

and im sorry but it is our business if you openly tell us that you are giving pain meds to your own family. Your mom has a serious condidtion an you playing dr can lead to a worst situation for her. as of you husband knowing how easy it is to get oxy in your area what happens if you tell dr.f all this he stops giving you the percs an now your husband is going to be put in a bad sitaution. his back hurts really bad to late to see a dr but he can get it from a friend well that once in a while thing turns into a every day thing an now you got to people on suboxone.

as of your suboxone plan as long as your following dr orders then go for it!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Just real quickly:

Quote:
Plenty of people have been successful in doing a rapid taper.


Studies show that people on short term sub treatment have a very high rate of relapse. Do you have any numbers or studies with regard to these claims? Many, many of the people on this forum who have done short term sub treatment simply haven't come back to tell us how they are doing. I'm not saying they aren't doing well, because obviously I don't know, but we haven't seen the success you are speaking of. If you consider that along with the studies I mentioned above, there is a preponderance of information that long term treatment has a higher success rate.

I'm not saying you will not succeed. Not at all, I want you to succeed. I just wanted to respond to your statement that "Plenty of people have been successful in doing a rapid taper."

_________________
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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:02 pm 
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I'm glad that you brought that up Hat. I caught that too and should have actually said something. The same would also go for "Plenty of people have been successful going cold turkey." Studies that I have seen for both rapid taper and cold turkey put relapse rates in the high 90 percentile within the first year. There unfortunately doesn't seem to be any good, long and lasting "quick fix" for opiate addiction. Certainly someone has to make up the 5% or perhaps 10% who do make it but the majority of us just are not that "lucky"


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Libra, you've been here a little while now and I've really enjoyed most of your posts quite a bit. I was just heading out of here (my office) to go home when I saw this post. I don't often check this particular section of the forum. A LOT of what you have posted in this thread has really stood out to me and reminded me quite a bit of myself many years ago. Please take what I am about to do in the spirit it is meant. I want to help you. I am afraid you may not quite be ready for it, but there are a LOT of red flags going up here....just bear with me here....

Libra wrote:
Ok. First of all, I am NOT in denial. I know full well that I am a first class addict. I am not disputing that fact.


Admitting you are an addict is good, but it does not mean you are not in denial. I believe this is an accurate description of at least some of your current behavior. I'm just telling you what I am observing here.

Libra wrote:
Secondly, Dr. F is my doctor and has been for a very long time. That is not going to change. He is not my "source" so to speak.

You are diverting opiates. No matter how you spin this, it's classic addict behavior. And NOT telling DocF that you are on suboxone and continuing to receive percoset from him is also classic addict behavior.

Libra wrote:
I went to a pain management clinic for the hundreds of Roxis I got each month. Dem dar over-see-ers ain't doin' a vury good job at over-see'in', iffin you ask me. In all seriousness, Dr. F was my doctor looooong before I ever even took an opiate of any kind. The only reason I got the stupid script for the Percs this time was because he refills ALL my scripts on a monthly basis. I didn't even think about it. But, what I do with the script is no ones business. I can assure you that I'm not going to be taking them.

Come ON. You're diverting them. And don't tell me you didn't even think about it. And what you do with the script IS your doctor's business. Diversion is a HUGE problem right now, and if he knowingly gave you those drugs with the knowledge that they were being diverted he would be guilty of a felony. That's serious business. Instead, YOU are currently guilty of a felony by diverting.

Libra wrote:
Lastly, I'm over the all the stupid shit that happened yesterday. Dr. D is not my doctor and never will be. She was rude and unprofessional and that, my friends, is a plain and simple fact. Although at my next appointment I may pull her aside and tell her that if she wants to gossip about patients, she should AT LEAST wait until they've left the premises. Sheeesh! Besides, I'm way prettier than she is. (Prolly smarter, too)

I won't argue that her behavior, as described, was inappropriate at best. But, with that said, she's right, isn't she? You ARE an addict, correct?

Libra wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand...... For those of you who are poo-pooing my taper plan, I will say this again....There is no one cure all for addiction!

Libra, do you think there IS a cure -at all- for addiction, because you seem to be implying that there is. As a 46 year old abuser of opiates since the age of 14, I can assure you, and this is what is called an unmitigated fact: There is NO "cure" for addiction. You will never NOT be an addict. This is a fact on part with other facts such as water being wet and me being a boy.

Libra wrote:
I would bet the farm that there aren't two people on this forum on the same plan. I am choosing to do it this way because I do not want to be on ANY opiates, and the quicker I get off, the better. If it doesn't work, then I'll be the first to admit it and try a long-term maintenance. It's that simple. Plenty of people have been successful going cold turkey. Plenty of people have been successful in doing a rapid taper. I will consider everyone's advice and opinions, but slamming my method is the one thing up with which I will not put.

You are getting very defensive. Really, based on what is being posted here, which is being posted out of genuine concern, you are getting OVERLY defensive, which concerns me, because it's one of the most glaring components of denial that there is. I'm not trying to offend you in any way, Libra.


Could a rapid taper work for you? Yeah, it could. Who knows? You may very well be the exception to the general rule. And you are absolutely entitled to your own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. And the facts and research are very clear on this. Short term treatment with bupe results in a higher rate of relapse than long term treatment with bupe. Much, much higher rates of relapse. Massively higher, in fact. I urge you to read Dr. Junig's blog. You're still on a dose that's way above the ceiling.

I have yet to see you mention counseling, therapy, a recovery plan for after you get off the suboxone and frankly, if you're unwilling to tell Dr. F that you are an addict, in my view, you're already planning your next relapse. I know you don't see it that way, and I truly hope you're not offended by anything I've written here, but I'm not going to just patronize you and tell you what you want to hear.

My sister in law lost her battle with this disease a few years ago and that was a real gut-shot for me, and you know why? Because I patronized her, and I enabled her, because I was unwilling to hurt her feelings by telling her what I really thought. I made a promise to myself at her funeral that I would never do that again.

I don't know you, Libra, and we'll never meet in person, but as a fellow addict and human being, I love you, and I just want you to be OK, that is the ONLY reason I've made this post. I hope we're cool.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:09 pm 
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LOL! I am honestly in shock! Do this! Don't do that! You're gonna do this! You shouldn't do that! Studies show this. Studies show that. I gave three examples of getting off opiates (I'm sure there are more) and was shot down like a turkey on the first day of hunting season. I will say this one last time. The script for the Percs was written as routine. I didn't go to the doctor with Percs (I don't even LIKE Percs... If I were going to spend money on oxy, I would go to my Roxi Doc for fuck's sake!) I went to get my blood pressure meds, anti-anxiety meds and my anti-depressants. You can choose to believe me or not. Frankly, I don't care at this point.

Everyone is DIFFERENT! What's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. What works for you may not work for others. I see this as trial and error mixed with a whole lot of wherewithal and determination. I don’t think any method of “getting clean” should be shot down. Hell, who knows…. Some man in Milwaukee may be sitting in his recliner, having been clean for 22 years using the standing on your head, whistling Dixie method of detoxification. I am not going to condemn nor condone anyone’s method of getting clean. That's their tap dance, not mine.

I AM in therapy. I go once a week. You want her name and phone number? You want an affidavit from the counselor I see weekly, too? I'm sure he'll be happy to oblige. I can get you a signed note from my NA meetings I attend 2-5 times a week.... if the first two aren’t good enough for you.

Additionally, my being an addict does NOT give Dr. Bitch Ass Ho the right to say what she did yesterday. I don’t give a flying fuck WHO she is or WHAT title she has. I have a title (other than addict) of my own but I don’t use it to abuse people with it. With or without a title, to demean or belittle people you don’t even know is bitchy and mean-spirited. If one must say nasty things about another, at least do it out of earshot.

Listen, I’ve been off of Roxi’s for three weeks using Suboxone and I have tapered successfully these last three weeks. The only positive feedback (which has proven to be effective in getting people to achieve a goal) has been miniscule. Oh, but the ridicule! That’s handed out in buckets! Now, taking that into consideration and the fact that I came on here looking for a little sympathy because of some shitty doctor and instead getting pinned in a corner over my supposed “diversion” and wrongly executed detoxification plan or whatever is NOT what I signed up for.

So therefore, I bid the farewell and wish all of you a successful recovery.

Adios, Amigos! I'm honestly going to miss a few of you that I have gotten to know in a short period of time, but when someone or some place brings you down more than up? Well, I think it's time to say goodbye.

.....and to think just a few days ago I was asking to stay....


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:17 pm 
I posted something in response to all this and within just a few minutes decided it wasn't worth the flack I'd probably get for it. I wanted to just delete it, but wasn't allowed to.....could only 'edit' it. So I guess this is my edit. Sorry.


Last edited by setmefree on Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:27 pm 
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How do you want us to fell sorry for you when you are lieing to doctors to get meds. OK lets for get the percs how bout the benzos???

I reread my post a deleted it cause i jumped to a certain conculsion that was not fair. But i do got to say the main reason i dont fell sorry for you is because of what you are doing. When you are on suboxone and dont tell this dr that means so much to you is very upsetting to hear. To top it off you are getting benzos from him while knowing how dangerous this is for your recovery. benzos are the one thing that almost all sub docs do not tolerate for many reasons one being how highly addictive they are with your past is like feeding a oxy addict herion.


But the main reason im upset is because you say you love this dr so much but your lies can put him in such a bad spot that he could go to jail lose his licence an so much more. now think about it is that fair??? Just cause you dont want to tell the truth!


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