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 Post subject: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:29 pm 
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I am a menber of a pharmacy group on Facebook and I read a post to the effect of:
My pharmacist forgot to dispense the nasal actuator with a naloxone kit. He called to let the patient know and found out someone had died. How do you all feel about this
Someone posted this word for word:
"I think mistakes happen and the pharmacist tried to fix it. It's not his fault someone overdosed. That's what emergency rooms are for"
Now if the situation had involved a pharmacist dispensing a training epi pen instead of the real pen and a patient had died from a bee sting people would be calling for that pharmacists job. Just goes to show the stigma we addicts have to face, we're second class citizens.
I don't even know how to respond to this...
In case anyone is interested the group is called "Excuse me this is a pharmacy not a fast food restaurant"


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Wow... without knowing the case, and whether the pharmacist's mistake resulted in injury, it is hard to condemn the person--- but there is NO doubt about the huge double standard. I've written this many times, but I think that we need to have addiction treated like ANY illness, so that mistakes are recognized and corrected, and ineffective 'treatments' are recognized and condemned.

As an aside about naloxone--- I realize that everyone is 100% positive about getting naloxone in as many hands as possible. But my fear is that someone, somewhere, will run around the house searching for the naloxone kit purchased 6 months ago, rather than 'get the police involved' by calling 911.

Along with getting naloxone out there, we need to educate people to call 911 FIRST, and THEN use the naloxone. I can see the precious 3-5 minutes passing by, as the brain dies, while people watch for the effects of naloxone. A better idea is to 1. start CPR immediately, 2. call 911, and then 3. inject naloxone. All those things can happen in a period of about 15 seconds, and even less if multiple people are present.


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:06 pm 
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If the post really happened, someone died because the naloxone kit was a fancy paperweight without the nasal actuator.
I agree, education is key. And calling 911 should be the first priority.
My point was that his mistake cost a human life and the response is oh well, he shouldn't have overdosed.
I'm still lost on how to respond to the post. I feel like I should say something but my anger for their ignorance is clouding my better judgement. I think I'll sleep on it and type a comment tomorrow when I'm not so pissed off about the total lack of compassion for the loss of a life, drug addict or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 5:43 pm 
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I didn't mean to make less of the incident- I'm not familiar with the kits. I have narcan in my office in vials, along with syringes-- so I don't know what the 'actuator' does.

What's also crazy.... about 10 years I bought the narcan vials for about a buck each. Now, vials of narcan are selling for hundreds of dollars!! I generally support capitalism, but it is a cheap drug to make-- and that sort of mark-up is shameful.


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:35 pm 
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Oops.. I figured everyone knew, my bad.
These kits are made to be used intranasally for those who aren't familiar with giving injections. So an actuator is required to administer the medication.
I was really upset about it that night, just reading what all those uppity pharmacist types had to say about how addiction isn't a disease and all really got to me.
But after some reflection I realize that people are going to think what they're going to think and all I can do is the best I can to educate those around me about addiction and suboxone, and getting angry doesn't accomplish much.


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:46 pm 
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I think that we can all understand your anger though. I would have been angry over the blatant disregard for the life of an addict too.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:21 am 
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It depends on a few things. Did the overdoser's using partner even try to look for, and administer naloxone? Plenty of times people refrain from turning to naloxone because it induces precipitated withdrawal, and using addicts can wake up very angry for people killing their high EVEN though they saved their life!

I wouldn't personally get angry at a pharmacist in the same way I wouldn't get angry at a paramedic taking an accidental wrong turn to get to an overdose. People are human and make mistakes.

Like Dr J said CPR is just as important as having naloxone on hand. Most of the time you don't even have to do chest compressions if you get in early enough. Two or three rescue breaths a minute, holding the nose, while frantically searching for the naloxone between breaths and calling 911 could keep a person alive.

Many people survive overdoses but still experience significant damage. It's quite frightening. Google hypoxic brain injury. It's enough to make anyone think thrice about relapse.


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:26 pm 
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lots of folks are angry naloxon has become so readily available but those that need epi pens often have to pay $100 or more out of pocket for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:19 am 
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Same goes for needle exchanges. People with diabetes have to fork out $ for their needles while junkies get them for free :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:27 pm 
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SisterMorphine wrote:
lots of folks are angry naloxon has become so readily available but those that need epi pens often have to pay $100 or more out of pocket for them.


Yes, I saw the memes that went around facebook. I also unfriended a girl who said that addicts shouldn't be receiving naloxone during overdose because they don't feel the consequences of their behavior that way. I'm like, What consequences? Death? She was never the sharpest tool in the shed.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
SisterMorphine wrote:
lots of folks are angry naloxon has become so readily available but those that need epi pens often have to pay $100 or more out of pocket for them.


Yes, I saw the memes that went around facebook. I also unfriended a girl who said that addicts shouldn't be receiving naloxone during overdose because they don't feel the consequences of their behavior that way. I'm like, What consequences? Death? She was never the sharpest tool in the shed.

Amy


there was just a town hall meeting near me about this. attendees were tired of seeing repeat overdosers saved with naloxon. the fb comments were terrible. they said it was a waste (waist actually lol) of money and they should let all the junkies die. the comments were really hard to read. then someone pulled the race card! shit got deep.
anyway it was recommended by a panelist that instead of recommending drug rehab, that it be required or else face charges. idk about 1st timers, but those that keep almost dying do indeed need help! i was seriously annoyed that they kept saying gov't has to be involved. i think we need less gov't not more. less laws and restrictions.
also an audience member had a good point. how come it only took her 10 minutes to go into a dr and get 190 percs but 2 years to find a treatment facility to get off the iv H she progressed to?! the numbers are not equaling out. everyone says "we" need to do something about the opiate crisis, but no one wants treatment facilities in their backyard!

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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Hi All, I don't know about other states, can only speak about mine....making addiction a racial issue would not make any sense here in NJ. Addiction is impacting all races and age groups. It is so much more than back in the day when heroin and crack were in the hood and the flip side, cocaine was on Wall Street and corporate America. I feel with the over prescription of opiates for pain, we now all know someone! So, to say that you would limit who you help or how many times you help them does not make sense to me! And yes, so easy to get a script for an opiate but very difficult to find inpatient treatment. Difficult to find a suboxone Doctor that accepts insurance! My own insurance co just sent a letter stating that suboxone would need preauthorization and that they could suggest that I try generic first. In August it will be three years for me taking sub films. Why all of a sudden now? My employer is trying to lower costs anyway that they can. We just had to switch from Walgreens to a cheaper pharmacy. We are now with CVS! It drives me crazy that medical decisions are not about the patient and what is best for them!


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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Michelle F. wrote:
Hi All, I don't know about other states, can only speak about mine....making addiction a racial issue would not make any sense here in NJ. Addiction is impacting all races and age groups. It is so much more than back in the day when heroin and crack were in the hood and the flip side, cocaine was on Wall Street and corporate America. I feel with the over prescription of opiates for pain, we now all know someone! So, to say that you would limit who you help or how many times you help them does not make sense to me! And yes, so easy to get a script for an opiate but very difficult to find inpatient treatment. Difficult to find a suboxone Doctor that accepts insurance! My own insurance co just sent a letter stating that suboxone would need preauthorization and that they could suggest that I try generic first. In August it will be three years for me taking sub films. Why all of a sudden now? My employer is trying to lower costs anyway that they can. We just had to switch from Walgreens to a cheaper pharmacy. We are now with CVS! It drives me crazy that medical decisions are not about the patient and what is best for them!


the CVS in the town my rehab is in won't fill sub scripts! neither will the rite aid. such a joke since their websites are plastered with info about opiate abuse yet they fill opiate scripts.

it was discussed at town hall that opiates can affect anyone, as far as the race issue, a black woman commented on fb that she was upset there wasn't a black person on the 4 panel discussion group and not even one person of any color besides white in the audience even tough the town is predominantly black. someone else then proceeded to post about how black people are all dealers and don't want people to get clean because it would be bad for their business.

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 Post subject: Re: Pharmacist
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:13 pm 
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So I started this a year ago. Here's the long version of what happened:
As a RN and pharmacy tech I'm a member of several career related groups on Facebook. One of those is a pharmacy group that's mostly about humor but occasionally someone will come along asking for advice on how to handle a situation.
The post I was referring to regarded a pharmacist dispensing a partial nasal naloxone kit to a patient. That patient (or patients friend, I'm not sure) later died because the naloxone kit didn't work without the nasal actuator to make the kit work. Kinda like dispensing the bottle of ProAir or Proventil without the actual inhaler.
Basically they had a vial or whatever of nasally administered naloxone without the pump to administer it with.
What I was so angry about was the lack of concern for the addict. The replys were all similiar:
The dumb addict shouldn't have overdosed, or it's the addicts fault for picking up in the first place.
I was really angry about the lack of compassion from fellow healthcare providers.
That's all... Nothing racial or economical about it, just plain old run of the mill prejudice against addicts.


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