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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:26 pm 
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1) Our OP hasn't logged in since Dec 5th so no reason to answer her question any longer.

2) Now we have you, Grabembythemeow, with a problem that sounds worse. How dare they talk to you like that. I surely wish we lived in the same town where I could go talk to them in person and let them know how horrible they are to good people. No one deserves to be treated like that!

Lucky for me I live in the West and for some odd reason, no pharmacy has ever given me grief about my script for Suboxone. That includes both Calif. and Nevada. What is it with the East? Or is it both North East, and South East? It just seems like half the U.S. is messed up with the way they treat decent people who are trying to recover their life.

If I were you I'd write a regular letter, via the Post Office, and send it to their headquarters, explaining exactly, with names, what happened to you. Also threaten to sue them over the HIPPA laws regarding your privacy. Making you stand out with other customers around knowing what medication you're on I think is illegal. Not quite sure, but it's worth warning them about.

You just got me mad as hell and I'd love to give them a piece of my mind.

Sorry for your humiliation and hope it never happens again.

rule

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Just a couple of thought s on this...

Rule, the issue here in our part of the country is stigma plain and simple . Maybe not the intire East, but
you have to know that my state (W.Va) and all neighboring states have the highest addiction numbers. From Vermont all the thru the Appalachian s to the gulf of Mexico. Do not get me wroug ,this is a country wide problem for most of the US.
One issue are the states new laws regarding sub treatment. Some states make it more difficult then others beyond the federal guidelines. New laws have gone in effect here i my state as of this week.
For whatever reason some of these pharmacies and there employees do not care about addicts getting help. I have a good relationship with my pharmacy, but it all depends who is there on certain days. Blank stairs to eyerolling.
Im sorry to say it again, but from my experience it just doesn't seem overall that the average person or healthcare worrker believes that give a drug to drug addicts is a good thing. And it shows on their faces and actions at times.
Im very sorry the poster has gone though this . Again. We are all in this togather I think. We do the best we can. I do hope you get this resolved. .

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:20 am 
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Apologies. I'm reactive tonight bc I buried a loved friend today. Unusual heart failure in spite of so young. Young wife and kiddos.

Razor, out of curiosity, I read the new W VA law SB 454 and am shocked. POd and shocked. Correct me if I misread!! Please! Treating bup clinics like the ol' pain pill mills due to some patient's bup diversion to the street, insisting on counseling, and objecting to cash only clinics bc of the belief they cater to cash customers who intend to abuse or sell their bup medication. Instead of patient's paying cash, it requires clinics to bill a patient's health insurance before they bill the patient since they believe all residents now are required by law to have health insurance thru Medicaid, Obamacare, employer provided or Medicare. WTH??? -- as if these are perfect answers?? It goes on to say Suboxone is the only buprenorphine medication on the state's “preferred” list for Medicaid coverage. And if, for whatever reason, Suboxone is not successful, the Medicaid patient can then be prescribed other buprenorphine drugs, like Zubsolv and Bunavail. It says both of those medications come in lower doses than Suboxone, and thus have lower potential for abuse. !!!!???? WTH ????!!!! Apparently they don't know that once absorbed, these bup meds all have the same blood level !!!! These 2 meds have a lower initial dose but higher absorption than suboxone so they equal the same blood levels as suboxone. Sigh.

With all this, I can see where healthcare workers might think poorly of bup customers w scripts.

Like I said, I'm reactive tonight. But still, this sucks. Please correct if I misunderstood...Best. P

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:37 pm 
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This is all ture Pelican. All of it.
The misinformation and lack of understanding of how Buprenorphine works causes these problems not only here but in other parts of our country.
This is why I shout it out from the mountain tops that the real information is HERE on the Talkzone /forum.
My clinic isnt just a clinic, it is THE model for the whole state. Not only as you ve wrtten must you do everything this law says, you MUST, must go to 12 step meetings as part of your treatment. If not, NO medical help. 4 meetings a week if you miss and do not make them up, no med for the week, or two weeks or Month! All UA s are now observed. I did my first last month for the first time....in 6 YEARS without a relapse. . There is not a sence of trust or goodness. All in the name of diversion!

HOWEVER, I am grateful to them. They aloud me to have sub meetings in there hospital where I use this forum and Dr Js writings.
Thank you for taking a look Pelican. I talk about this and other things and I get the feeling nobody's listening or believes it. Why should they, most are in the comfort of a drs office for treatment.
I am lucky enough to know three sub docs as clients of mine and they agree, the laws are hurting some but also make it harder for them too. None of these drs work at clinic though.. and diversion? , it adds to the stigmas but it also saves lives .
Pm me anytime Pel...

Razor58..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Razor I think our clinics are similar in a lot of ways, not to mention the areas we both live in.

My clinic is very strict. We are required meetings but it's sub based with a counselor in our meeting area at the clinic which is good imo. When u start it's a meeting every week and u cannot miss it at all. It's once a week for 3 months and if u follow all rules after 3 months u can go to every 2 weeks for 3 more months and after that, if u haven't violated any rules u can go to monthly. That's the schedule for getting ur medicine and drug screens also. It's nothing for me to have 2 drug screens a month even now.... just all depends on ur schedule.


I've been there for 5 yrs and will not get a script if I don't do a drug screen before I see my doctor, the day I see my doctor.


Those drug screens involve someone in the bathroom with u. U pee in this thing that catches ur urine and the lab person transfers it to a plastic container. So it's set up for no cheating.

I don't mind these rules because it keeps the ppl that's dedicated there. I don't want to see ppl go sell their medicine, that really gets under my skin. What I do wish though is that the patients that's been there for yrs, feel a bit more trusted.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:17 pm 
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Hi All, I don't know how this thread got past me! This infuriates me and I would have responded immediately if I had seen it! I have a very low tolerance for unprofessionalism! She may be within the law of NC but her attitude was completely wrong! So, whatever happened? I am so fortunate in that I go to Rite Aid, they are lovely, I do always have to wait a day as the 2mgs strips are never in stock. But, it is always there the next day. I am also so lucky to have an amazing doctor who would not tolerate if any pharmacy gave me a problem with my script! I just gave her a letter from my prescription plan provider that states starting in March, a preauthorization will be required. This was very upsetting to me but she took the letter and said that she would handle it! This is why I love her so much!! I hope the original poster comes back to inform us of what happened in the end! Have a great night!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Yes, Grabmebythemeow! (LOVE this name by the way!) That is total unprofessionalism and needs to be reported! Does anyone remember that girl who wrote lyrics to the Adele song Hello about drug addicts at the pharmacy? She was a Walmart employee if I remember correctly!!!! Do we need to boycott Walmart?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:44 pm 
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That is great Jenn, so in 6 months you can go to monthly.
In our places you go monthly after a year with no mistakes. Every clinic day you will see the dr And have a group meeting. This goes on for....3 Years! Plus 12 step meeting in town. Or else.....
Hey, no one is holding a gun to our heads..just the way it is. . . I stay mostly because of cost. 60 bucks every two months. Pretty good..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Quote:
"Lucky for me I live in the West and for some odd reason, no pharmacy has ever given me grief about my script for Suboxone. That includes both Calif. and Nevada. What is it with the East? Or is it both North East, and South East? It just seems like half the U.S. is messed up with the way they treat decent people who are trying to recover their life."


I've got to say I've had no problems in Massachusetts. Both clinics I''v been to recommend counseling and or meetings. One even says they're required. But I saw no evidence they bothered checking.
As to the drugstore i use, CVS, they're as casual about my subs as they are about the stomach medication script I fill there.. I automatically hand over my license when I fill my subs, and half the time they just hand it back without even looking.

In fairness, I've only dealt with the one pharmacy, so it's possible others around here are tougher. Generally there's no question there's a major stigma associated with drug addiction which I'd say is pretty similar to that associated with mental illness.

It's difficult not to internalize this stigma, at least for me. Despite the courteous treatment I've received at the drugstore, I still have to fight feelings of embarrassment. I just want to get the transaction over as quickly as possible. I've a brother who has to take anti-psychotic medication. I often think that must be even worse.It would be for me.

I do have one annoyance at the way I'm treated, but it's really minor. They always ask if I'm aware how much
money my script is going to cost. It was 350 and now down to 240.I get why they ask, but I wish they wouldn't. Again it's me. I find it embarrassing.

It's clear I still have work to do on my self image. Long history of being shamed as a kid by my mother. Doesn't matter how old I get, in some ways I'm still the same goofy little kid.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Yep Razor, in six months u can go to once a month seeing the doctor and getting ur medicine. We still gotta do meetings and we have to always do a drug screen before each doctor visit. The results of our drug screen has to be on his desk by the time we're sitting in front of him. We also have an addiction counselor and nurse practitioner who sees ppl with any kind of other problems.

Razor that's an awesome price ur clinic has!!! Ur very lucky and I wish my area had more reasonable prices but so far I haven't heard of anything less that $350 a month.

I guess we're lucky regardless what we gotta do right :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:29 pm 
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Grabembythemeow wrote:
I was spoken to and sneered at like a little child when I went to fill my subutex.
My pharmacist from Walmart in Pennsylvania told me that because of the ZIP code on the prescription and my residence that I was out of their protocol range- when I live in the same county as the pharmacy. She talked to me so horribly I left in tears. I will never forget that blonde bitches awful face and the way she talked down to me. I am not some addict that steals and only thinks of myself. I was just trying to get help for the Percocets that I had to take and then stop taking after being in a near fatal accident I survived.

so sorry you had to go through that. I was also in tears after both CVS and Rite aid refused to fill my first script. I have calls in to customer service. I've actually gotten calls back from CVS.
How long ago was this?
You could still file a complaint. It's walmart, who cares, just call customer service!
I was warned ahead of time that the walmart near the doctors office wouldn't fill the prescription. Apparently they want you to go to the walmart pharmacy closest to you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:33 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
Yep Razor, in six months u can go to once a month seeing the doctor and getting ur medicine. We still gotta do meetings and we have to always do a drug screen before each doctor visit. The results of our drug screen has to be on his desk by the time we're sitting in front of him. We also have an addiction counselor and nurse practitioner who sees ppl with any kind of other problems.



This is exactly the type of work I want to do eventually! I would love to work with opiate addicts taking suboxone! Personally, I think that my doctor should hire me! Suboxone patients, especially newbies, need a support group run by someone who is sufficiently aware of the drug's properties and side effects. And I could also be noting each patient's progress in recovery. That would be my dream job, I think. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:31 am 
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It is My dream job Amy. I do it twice a week and enjoy every minute of it. Useing my experiences and knowledge from this forum and Dr Junigs writings, aloug with the blessings of the medical director and the head of therapy here, im given a free hand to teach new people with a week to a few months and the poor new souls from upstairs in the DDU just what recovery on MAT can be .
Family members are also welcomed and that is a huge plus. The stigmas and misinformation many of these folks come in with are turned around as they read or hear just how well this medication works. The lives it saves. There isn't any where else they can get this information.
Must reading is the Users guide and the forum, plus publication s from SAMHSA. These are good guidelines even on a national level.
My clinic is part of a larger, state medical school and university. The Buprenorphine program is a comprehensive program called C O A T. Comprehensive Opiate Addiction Treatment program. Meds, therapy, meetings and IOP. There are over 500 patients here..and growing. It is My recovery, has been since 2011. And my two groups I am proud of and mostly proud of the many members who come and stay.
It s great work Amy, I KNOW you ll find it. I just wish I had the papers to get payed for it full time. Lol.. it feels like a calling to me . I know it is to all thoses who work here at the forum and the many great members who come by in support of others worldwide.

Razor r...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:44 am 
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my therapist said i would make a good peer counselor. i think most of us would. we were discussing how even when i was using, i was able to help addicts start their withdrawal and make things easier for them. plus spent a lot of time trying to get a friend into rehab, so i had a good understanding of what was and wasn't available when I started with the MAT program.
i left out the part about teaching the one friend to do a cold water extraction, but he was destroying his liver taking so much pill with tylenol in it!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:23 am 
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Great discussion. I'll add a couple thoughts. Note that in what Amy wrote it discusses legitimate refusal for an 'on time prescription'. I wish I could simply tell doctors what I want them to dispense, but it doesn't work that way. Pharmacists can get in trouble if they dispense things early and cause harm. They can get sued, or lose their licenses if they miss a med interaction, or if they dispense a dose that is too high-- even if that dose was ordered by a doc. Pharmacists are supposed to be part of the diversion-control system, and they have the right to withold medications if they believe the medications are harmful. Again, I don't really like that, because I often get called from pharmacists complaining about things that are actually quite safe. Recently a pharmacist called because a patient was on a benzo and buprenorphine. I told the pharmacist that if the dose of both drugs is constant, tolerance develops, and the danger is low. But the pharmacist refused to fill the script! I had the patient go elsewhere and fill it, but the situation took away a half hour from my life that I'll never get back...

There are new things now, too, that cause problems. More and more insurers will refuse to cover buprenorphine if they don't have a recent drug test. I recently had to write an appeal to an insurer because I had a patient who has been stable for 5 years on Suboxone, and the insurer requires monthly drug tests! I replied that he hadn't tested postive for years, so I didn't see it as reasonable to test him monthly at this point.

ASAM is currently accepting public comments on the need for drug testing. I'll try to get a link up here... but I find it annoying that I cannot decide, on my own, whether testing is indicated. Instead they are coming up with testing protocols to 'guide doctors'.

Finally... in the past, if a patient had a valid reason for needing more buprenorpine-- say they had it stolen, and even though I don't generally replace lost or stolen meds, lets say that the theft was witnessed and happened even though the patient did everything right. I could decide to override that rule. One, for example, a pregnant patient ran out a bit early. Actually, she had filled 2 days early each month because the pharmacy allowed it, but then when her next PA came up, they said she couldn't fill for 12 days because of getting it 2 days early 6 times. Because of her pregancy, I wanted her to get the medication, worried that withdrawal might precipitate labor. But the state has a rule that pharmacists cannot dispense bupe for cash, for any reason, even if the doctor orders it. There was nothing I could do, and the patient had the choice of getting sick and harming the baby, or buying illegal drugs and risk prison. She chose the former, and luckily things worked out...


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