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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:52 pm 
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First off cool thread.

You posted the one thing that makes me so mad. All we did was switch one drug to another. when i hear that i just want to scream out loud. when i was takeing oxy for 3 years at a 160mg i lost total control of my life then got on suboxone going on 3 years and got all my life back. so what you rather have me take oxy then suboxone cause all im doing is takeing another drug well this other drug has got my life back and has also help many people like myself who couldnt do it on their own. so people just need to learn to shut up sometimes. only a true pill addict could understand what we are going threw an all the people that say this stuff to me havent even taken a hydro codone so wtf do they know.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:22 pm 
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I think that the 12-step and inpatient/outpatient chemical dependency programs teach it is trading one drug for another which sucks because they are still turning out a lot of people who are misinformed and whose lives are potentially in danger because the addicts think "sub" is using. Therefore, instead of trying sub as a form of treatment, they might as well just take an oxy instead right? I am sure many people do this and that SUCKS because I am sure people die over this. Too sad.

When I went off sub and then had surgery and abused my painkillers, I am TOTALLY grateful that I knew I could just go back on sub. I didn't feel nearly as out of control as I may have otherwise because I knew I had a safe option other than just sticking it out or going back to full blown opiates. I just wish we could get it to a point where everyone in all of the treatment communities could accept all forms of recovery and leave it to the person who is addicted to decide what is best and then help them design the best recovery plan for them based on it.

Cherie


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 Post subject: substitution
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:16 pm 
There's another reason that the argument you're just substituting one drug for another isn't true. All of us addicts know that when you use opiates you have to keep taking more and more to get the same effect, until you get to the point where you have to take more and more just to feel less unwell. This isn't true for Sub at all. In fact, what I've seen mostly is that people slowly taper of Sub until they're on the lowest dose that works. This is nothing like active addiction.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:37 pm 
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The one thing which I find so weird about using is that at first you use for fun and pleasure but that never lasts and afterwards you use to in order not to become sick. Lily it is so true........ I have not been sick at all on Sub.

Isn't that really a weird thing when you break it down, I could remeber using and saying to myself,, well if I keep using heavy for a 4 days or more I am really going to be sick,,, I better slow down a little...

Has anybody else have that mind set? I tell you,, I am so glad for this forumn and for your guys feedback. Sub allows me to think again rationally.

Happy Easter Everyone!!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Oh yes! From the moment I would buy 30 or 40 (40mg oc's) I would ration them out and say, I can have 7 today (what it took to get a minor buzz for part of the day) and then 7 tomorrow, but then I have to start to taper. Then I would figure out what I had going on for the work week and weekend and take the min. amount I needed to get those things done. I would always end up cheating though so I would always end up on the last day taking 4 or 5 and then not be able to get more and then get a script for vicodin or perc to help me come down and scramble to get more oc, etc. etc. etc.

Whereas TODAY......I forgot to take my sub until 2pm and I am supposed to take it at 5am. I just kept saying....I will take it when I get done with x,y,z. Then it would be an hour later and I would say....as soon as I get done with a,b,c. NO ONE does that in active addiction. WAY, WAY different than substituting.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:15 pm 
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My boyfriend is on Suboxon. I see it nothing short of a wonder drug. It saved his life. I was telling a girl the other day about how he had gotten clean and was doing great. She said "yeah, but I heard he is on Suboxon". And??? This came from a girl who herself was an opiate addict and had spent 60 days in an inpatient treatment center. I guess because she got clean without Suboxon she is better than him? It really irritated me. This was her first run at rehab. My boyfriend has been there half a dozen times and relapsed everytime. Now we have found something to help in this fight. And the great thing about Suboxon is that our lives were able to start over the day he started the medicine. He didn't have to leave home for a treatment center. There were no outrageous rehab costs. Its allowing him to practice a drug free life in the best place - where he plans on living it!

I myself have never been addicted to drugs. Come to this site in support of my boyfriend. And now in support of all of you who are using Suboxon. Don't let the negativity get you down. You have made the decision to make a huge change in your life and quite frankly those people can go fuck themselves (okay, I'm blushing, not really a curser,lol!). Honestly though, I have only seen positivity with this drug. Have already recommended it to several people I know struggling with pain pill addiction. And I will continue to advocate this medicine. Not only has it changed my boyfriends life, it changed mine too.

Keep up the hard work guys!


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 Post subject: Still...
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:56 am 
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I personally do not consider being on Sub the same as being totally clean of all drugs. Mostly because of that forced abstinence thingy that Naloxone does for you. And when my boyfriend (who, after having extensie leg surgery, where they removed part of the bone on each leg, has managed to stay off heroin and taper homself down to 10 migs of methadone a day in a matter of couple of weeks - all that while I was STILL USING, having the stuff available to him at any minute...) - well, when he's saying he's proud of me cuz I went on Subox - I just kinda shrug my shoulders and reply - "Would you be proud of a criminal who doesn not commit crimes anymore because he's locked up in jail?" :) I know this analogy is pretty stupid, but that's how i feel about Subox right now - for me it's a warden that keeps the drugs locked away so I cannot get to them, so it's better if i don't think about it at all... I have some cravings, yes, but in a somewhat nostalgic perspective (remember how nice it was to chase that high long-long ago...) and not in that "gotta use, gotta use now or I'll die" sort of way. I understand i'm not at all free of psychological dependency, and if by some miracle the "warden effect" were to melt away in the next half hour, first thing i'll go for is the phone to call my dealer. I know that. Of course it's too early for me to be saying anything about getting clean - it's only my third day on suboxone, and the PW's have just subssided - I hope in the future things will change, I'll go to counselings and meetings and aquire tools to deal with cravings, the guilt and other stuff that causes slip-ups... yet, I firmly believe - as long as there's something external that's preventing you from using (like a clised facility, a jail, or a dose of Naloxone) - you're not truly free and clean.

But hey, on the other hand... Imagine a junkie who went CT and heroically overcame both acute and post-acute wd syndromes. He's going to meetings, he's sraying clean, he's getting his life togethter... but... he messed up his health during active addiction, and now has to take a bunch of meds - not opiates, not neceserelly - but some meds, like antidepressants mayve, or muscle relaxants, or mood regulators, or even heart medicine - just so he can function. is he really clean of all addiction? We will collapse if you take away our Sub, he will too if you take away his Zoloft or whatever. Is that in any way different? Pretty confusing.... i admit, though I have made a decision to go on Sub - but for me it was that or death, no middle grownd. I've spent 5 month of my life in a cardiac ICU, I know what i'm talking about. My boyfriend almost lost both his legs above the knee. While low dose methadone works for him, i am sure won't be able to abstain from heroin if I have a chance to use again... that's why Sub is the only way for me. However, I'm scared to death of all the scary stories about long term maintenance, knowing very well I cannot afford a quick Subox detox, I'm just not ready to mentally check out from the addiction mode. So... Clean or not clean? Ah who cares... At least I'm not mutilating myself anymore... :)


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:02 pm 
mathAn - I'm glad you made the decision to go on Sub. It sounds like you have suffered both physcially and mentall/emotionally from your addiction. I understand the mental struggle with being on a "substance", but as you acknowledged in your 2nd paragraph that many people are dependent on medications for a number of conditions. A good analogy is that an addict needs Sub like a diabetic needs insulin. Yes, both could survive without it, but would live much sicker shorter lives. To me it is not like being in jail, because in jail you can't walk out but you can walk away from Sub anytime. It's a daily decision to use it as a tool to stay clean. I think I saw a post from you on another thread. You have a lot of good questions and I think you will get a lot of good information on this forum. Congratulations on your newfound sobriety and I hope you'll stay around and keep posting.
Take care,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 5:08 pm 
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I have to say that I agree - I feel that the sub is just another drug that I am now reliant on. I went from needing percocet to get through the day to now needing sub to get through the day. Is the mental anguish gone? For the most part. Is the chasing down the percs and the anxiety of not having something to take gone? Yup. Now I have to go to my dr once a month to talk and get a script. I feel like my normal self again but that is because I have something to take that makes me feel normal. It's all so confusing. I wish I could go back and never eat a percocet. But I can't and this new road is definetly less bumpy, I have my life back and for that I'm thankful, no more crying over pills. I'm going to continue with the subs for a while longer and once I think I'm strong enough, I'm going to taper down and pray to god I can let it all go.


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:44 am 
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Great post and even better replies. I agree with lots of them. I don't tell anyone any more about my suboxone, it's none of their business! Plus I would always get someone asking me for pills after a meeting to help their detox. After I went through 4 hospitals in 3 months, spent 28 days in a rehab, complied with all my sub dr.s rules, spent a ton of money for my script and then I'm going to hand them out. It was too much hassle if people in the program new I was on them. Occasionally if I see someone really struggling and wants sobriety I will tell him my experience with suboxone and have even introduced people to my doc. Regarding people not thinking you are sober or trading one addiction for another, screw em. My addiction is mine and my recovery is mine, I don't do it for anyone else in the program or group therapy. This is life and death for me and I could care less if people look down on sub use. I definately do not tell people without an addiction problem (norms as we call them). It's not my job to educate everyone about suboxone and opiate addiction. It's hard for people to grasp any kind of mental illness or weakness or whatever, especially when it is something they can handle with ease (weather it's addiction, depression, eating disorders, or whatever). I know someone who suffers from anorexia and I catch myself thinking "just eat something, what's the problem". Even with all I've been through and all the damage I've seen healthy people do to themselves I still can be very close minded. I try real hard not to judge or debate people who don't believe addiction is a disease. I guess my point is to be selective when telling people about any medication you take and if you do tell someone be ready for their opinions (supportive or not).


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:22 am 
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I hate hearing the "substitution" theory. Meanwhile people take their cholesterol pill (when they could just change their diet) or their high blood pressure pill (when they could lose some weight) and their pill for stiff joints (when they could exercise) you get the point. Don't give me medical scientific facts on these above matters I am just using an analogy I know it doesn't apply to all cases.

I try to remember that most people just don't understand. Why should they. It does seem crazy that we can't stop doing something even we don't want to do. They don't understand addiction why in the world should they be expected to understand suboxone. I'm like some of the others. I work under the don't ask don't tell policy. I certainly don't go around asking everyone about their medicine and then making judgements about it. You are just taking a pill instead of doing the real work and becoming a vegetarian! LOL :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:14 am 
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I have a friend that I mtn bike with pretty often. I have been through three detoxes, first two were serious hard core turkey mode. I finally went to a real detox place and got on the subs. To get back to my biking buddy. we both have had serious pain issues in our lives and I have been very open about my oxycontin addiction deal while I never heard a peep out of him except to ask me for some killers when I had them. This summer I went on suboxone in the clinic and have been on 16 mg a day for chronic back pain. Now I find out he has been paying over 1000 a month for killers on the black market. I tried to tell him about subs and he came at me like it was some kind of cop out drug that you can never get off of. I have tried to quit subs and have not succeded yet, but at least I'm not spending that much dough. My pain isn't gone like on oxy either, but it is more manageable. I guess I am just saying i am on the fence right now because a friend confronted me with kowledge I did not have before. please someone correct me if I'm wrong, are we all slaves to the cure?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:37 am 
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I definitely felt more like a slave when I was abusing opiates than I ever did when I was on Suboxone. I knew I was dependent on Sub and because of that I built up an emergency stash and I really played by the rules with my doctor so I knew I'd have my medication. There were times when I felt frustrated that I "had to take a pill" every day - but I also felt like that with my antidepressant meds in the past and I feel like that sometimes with my thyroid medication, which is something I'll never be able to stop taking for real. It's annoying, having a disease that requires me to take a medication every day, but it's a part of life that won't be changing any time soon, so I guess I just have to accept it and get on with life (I'm talking about my thyroid disease here, but I think it applies to any chronic illness).

But, aside from that mild and passing feeling, Suboxone was a good medication for me. It gave me an opportunity to get my life together, to learn new ways to live and be in the world (which some people call reality), and it helped with my pain. It was a good antidepressant and I barely ever got sick (colds or flu) while I was on it. I felt like I was back in charge of my life again for the first time in years.

Then, after 18 months and a lot of work, I felt ready to taper off and I did. I did it slowly and gradually and I stopped completely last August. I've been off of Sub for 13 months and life is good. Not everyone will choose to taper off, and that's totally ok. Some need it for pain, others just know they will function better staying on it long term. Others will feel ready to try to go off of it at some point. Everyone is different, but the one thing we all share is that we need to learn how to cope with life and our anxieties and emotions without resorting to some escape mechanism. This is true if you plan to stay on Sub and it is extra important if you plan to go off of it at some point. If you read the liquid taper thread, there are several other stories of successful tapers there too.

If you ask me, I think your friend is doing a bit of projecting his feelings onto you. Maybe he feels trapped in that awful cycle of getting high and withdrawing, trying to find enough money and drugs to stay well. Maybe he thinks he's in control of his situation still - and going on Sub means you have to admit to yourself that you've lost control and you need help - and seeing you take that step is setting off his denial. Maybe he still thinks he can quit on his own, just walk away from the painkillers and be ok, so he has to view your seeking treatment as a "cop out" Who knows?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:36 pm 
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thank you suboxone success, i am very new to this forum but ive been waiting for a long time to hear someone finally say the things that i feel and have actually said about the use of suboxone. its hard to explain to people but the best way i can describe it is: that the decision, courage, and determination to TAKE the pill eveyday to assure that weve made a commitment to stop using drugs, thats the miracle......to me. so many people say that im trading one drug for another but i make the desicion to not use, every morning i wake up and take suboxone. saying that its a trade from one drug to another is like saying that an alcoholic that makes the decision to take his/her alcanon (i dont know the name of that drug, give me some slack) every day is simply trading alcohol for a pill? NONSENCE! we make the decision to stay drug free EVERYDAY. those who make those claims are simply not educated properly. and its a travesty that there are people that are actually on suboxone feel that they are doing the "trade dance". suboxone success hit the nail on the head, it makes me believe that people that feel like we are doing a trade, must think we are getting high off of it????? if that were the case, i would completely agree with them. the DECISION to take the subs IS the act of sobriety.( i know that this may be hard to understand without voice inflection ) but why is it that we choose to get sober without sweating, vomitting, running to the bathroom every 5 minutes, and staying awake for days at a time, just pisses people off? WTF?! we CHOOSE to block the reseptors so that even the thought of "using" is pointless. the strength to make that choice everyday should be impressive, all by itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:13 am 
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its strange because i read these stories and think omg that was me, thats dead on. however, i dont tell alot of people about my suboxone, my bf knows and my parents and two of my close friends. one of my close friends doesnt realize how serious of a disease this is, but thats another thread. anyways, i had alot of trouble being proud of myself when i got on subs, even after being sober for over 6 months at that time i didnt feel proud. i felt like it was all my fault that i fucked everything up and i should have known better and theres nothing to be proud of when i had made myself addicted to something for so long and had no control over it. everytime my bf or parents would say they were proud i would just think, why? after going to therapy and talking to my bf and looking at their perspective and basically getting sober time, I realized that i wasnt dealing with a lack of will power or a moral defieciency, i was dealing with a disease that i really had no control over for a long period of time. so i feel like i was one of those people that thought addiction was just lack of will power and it took me a while to realize it was something totally different.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:24 am 
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oh i also wanted to comment on the jail analogy: i felt like i traded one addiction for the other for a little, but i never really worried about it. however, there are people who relapse on subs so saying that ithey are 100% keeping you from using is not accurate. my dr pointed out to me that when i started subs i said i didnt want to use alot but i did have cravings and i said i might go out and use if i didnt have drug tests and the possibility of losing my dr and the sub program. He said that right now if thats the thing keeping me sober then i need to hang on to that and embrace it and use it. Well 8 months later im not relying on that idea of a drug test to keep me sober. so basicalyl when i first started subs i used whatever i could to keep me sober and now that i have stayed that way i have other coping mechanisms, not everyone uses those mechanisms or has the same fears as me. Some people relapse on subs, so to say the pill itself is keeping you 100% soberis not accurate because there are other things helping you to stay sober.


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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 11:29 am 
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Everyday my family are ignorant to the effects of suboxone and do not "get it" .Suboxone helps protect me from becoming an obsessive pill head. I have a doctor that charges me $75 a month through my insurance . I pay only $35 for a 30 day supply of strips,which I love more than tabs, . I feel normal .I'm starting nursing school this summer getting a part time job. I exercise. My ex husband ,were trying to get back together, hates that I take it. He does not want to even see the strips in my mouth. He is uneducated about this and has no desire to understand . I stay sick for weeks every time I try to stop,my house becomes a mess,I lay in bed.I go insane I want to take anything to make the pain stop.

I want at least my mom to go to my net visit to understand what suboxone really is.

I thank god for this forum a because some NA groups do not consider "subies" ,as they cal me recovered.

I do loathe the abusers of suboxone.


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:49 pm 
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Hi everybody, I'm new here and I'm on day 6 of my suboxone treatment and have read these horror stories about once you get on it it is hard to get off it, but I'm taking 8 mgs a day and it is helping me because I have got to stop taking pills and take back my life, I was always broke, scrambling around looking for pills before I started withdraws, planning everything I did on weather or not I was going to have any pills and just got tired of it, tired of taking pills all the time so I decided to do something about it and get some help and I'm glad I did. I really don't see anything wrong with suboxone, it stopped my withdraws so I could stop taking lortab and I have not takin any pills for a week now,,,, I'm very proud of myself,,,but just wanted to say hi


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:31 am 
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Hi joedogg and welcome! Congrats and taking control of your life and stopping the chaotic cycle of active addiction. Try not to worry too much at this stage of your treatment about stopping your sub treatment yet. For now, give yourself time to get your life and head together. It takes time to re-learn (or un-learn) bad habits, coping skills, etc, and to learn to live life without popping pills every time we feel like life isn't going our way.

The truth is, yes, we will have withdrawals when stopping suboxone. The key is a long, slow taper when coming off. But like I said, try not to worry about that now. In my opinion you need plenty of time to change lots of things before you're there yet.

Again, welcome to the forum! Hope to see you posting lots more.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Aside from being uneducated about the medication, I truly don't get why so many people have hangups about Sub. This especially confuses and angers me whenever I see the hundreds of drug commercials on tv. My seven yr old just asked me the other day what Erectile Dysfunction is! We live in a society of "quick fixes", where its totally acceptable to take a pill for just about EVERYTHING......yet, taking Sub (which may save a person's life ) is NOT OK?!!? I have a problem with this outlook.

Also, I feel its a very personal decision as to the length of time a person remains on the Sub. If you have success just using it as a detox tool, great......you only wanna stay on it for 6 months, great......if you feel it best to remain on the Sub for a few yrs, great! And, I also see NOTHING WRONG with a person whom has decided that taking Sub indefinitely is the best choice for them.

I feel better than I have in years! Im FINALLY comfortble in my own skin. Instead of devoting all of my time to looking for/using pills, Im now free to be the Mother/Wife my family deserves. This medicine has healed me in so many ways. I actually forget that Im an addict most of time. Im a better ME on the Sub, and Im not gonna let anyone's opinion ruin that!


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