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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:52 pm 
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So I found this story today about one of the girls on teen mom and it made me really mad. She says she tried to commit suicide by taking 30 suboxone in 3 days and that she took them until she nodded out and stuff and then chose a prison sentence over continuing rehab...geeze what an idiot. Now suboxone is in the limelight not as the awesome life changer it can be but as a suicide method...wtf.


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/tee ... d=16514328


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:15 pm 
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If some one were to consider overdosing with buprenorphine it would be, by far, the worst opiate (since buprenorphine is semi-synthetic and an orvinol derivative) to do this with.

A dose higher than the greatest recommended amount of buprenorphine, 32mg, would not result in further or added respiratory depression, as buprenorphine, being a partial agonist, exhibits a property where the depressant effect plateaus at this dose.

This is just another example of the public demonizing agonist therapy. That person would have sooner died from liver failure if they were to overdose on acetaminophen (paracetamol), a common and household product. Acetaminophen is Far Deadlier than Suboxone in the case of an Overdose. If this person were educated or serious about their attempt they would've succeeded with Tylenol, and failed no matter the instance, with buprenorphine or Suboxone.

Enough said?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Ceiling effect anyone? Lol

This also upsets me as uninformed citizens are going to read that article and soon enough Suboxone will be under fire. Like Pharmakon said, acetaminophen is way, way more deadly. You can eat seven 10/1000mg hydrocodone/APAP and die. SEVEN!

In the long run people are going to think what they want, but it is our job to "prove" to the world that Suboxone taken correctly is a miracle in itself and helps tremendously. It has saved countless peoples life's.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:09 pm 
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This is why suboxone/subutex education is so important. Other pharm companies market their products (in my opinion, correctly) by sending reps to doctors and hospitals to actually face-to-face meet with them to teach them about their new medications. Does RB step up to the plate to do this? Hell no. They rely on that 8 hour training course and they slack off on their responsibility, as far as I'm concerned. This leaves so many doctors as well as the public very uneducated.

And yes, that leaves us, as patients, to educate people every opportunity we get. I know each time I meet a new medical person for a test or a consult medication usually come up and the subject of suboxone comes up and I ask if they know what it is. The majority of the time they say no and I end up talking to them about it.

As far as I'm concerned, RB holds a chunk of the responsibility for educating the medical community and public about their product and they are failing at that.

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 Post subject: Education is a must
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:44 pm 
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I agree Hat.

Recently I posted an informative article about buprenorphine/Suboxone in order to educate the public and other users (if necessary) and there were very poor reviews and few people commented on the thread. I must say I was a little disappointed as the information contained therein was sound and I thought I'd presented the information in an inviting manner. Very few people were willing to educate themselves, much less others.

Education is empowerment, but so many people think they know enough when in actuality they know very little, or most of their knowledge is hear-say or simple speculation or reports from other addicts that are clearly not in the know.

Back to the main point, physicians are not as educated about Suboxone or DATA 2000 as they should be. I sometimes end up lecturing my own addictionologist about some of the newest trends and data, not to say they're ignorant but, I agree when you say the 8 hour training course in order to obtain the specialized DEA Licensure necessary to prescribe Suboxone is inadequate and needs further elaboration. Perhaps continued regular training sessions or the like.

Reckitt-Benckisser should try to defeat these fallacies and the nasty publicity that Suboxone sometimes is notorious for. After all, it's their love-child. And I agree Hat, Suboxone for me is a miracle drug, and there's no doubt in my mind I would be dead today of an overdose or of my own volition if it weren't readily available to me after my detox.



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:41 pm 
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I posted this link to my facebook page, and got onboard my 'soapbox' and pointed out this is exactly why alot of people cannot reach this life saving treatment.

and Im pretty sure she's fulla shit.
just sayin

Ive seen the show, shes not known for her 'upstanding citizen' characteristics.

And thanks for posting this. It really makes me irrate, but I digress.........

And I will beat the living shit outta this girl if I ever see her. Not just becuz of this story, but becuz of all the beatings she gave her boyfriend on national tv, all the terrible things shes done to her child, and well, Im not gonna list everything else.

Thats all I got to say about th'at, yep like forrest gump

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:15 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
This is why suboxone/subutex education is so important. Other pharm companies market their products (in my opinion, correctly) by sending reps to doctors and hospitals to actually face-to-face meet with them to teach them about their new medications. Does RB step up to the plate to do this? Hell no. They rely on that 8 hour training course and they slack off on their responsibility, as far as I'm concerned. This leaves so many doctors as well as the public very uneducated.


They do have reps that do visits. Only their approach leaves a lot to be desired.

Janaburson touches on it here:

http://janaburson.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/pharmaceutical-companies-behaving-badly/

I try not to harbor resentment towards people who have tried to kill themselves, mainly because they are obviously very sick and need help. Not much different to those people who abuse Suboxone. However 30 suboxone tablets over 3 days does not sound like a genuine suicide attempt. Maybe that's the defense she took in court to try and get a more lenient sentence. It's a common defense tactic to try and pass off reckless or addictive behaviour as a symptom of underlying mental health issues, and judges are often more lenient and compassionate that way.

It's fairly common among addicts who don't want to change (maybe most addicts?) to choose jail over rehab. Esp for those who've done time before and know what to expect, many see jail as less confronting and easier as you don't have to work on yourself at all if you so choose. Some programs I know, mothers can't see their children for up to 3 months which is a lot longer than jail with weekly or fortnightly visits.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:10 am 
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Man, that chick from Teen Mom is such a dumbass, she probably swallowed the Suboxone pills.

Seriously, that show makes my eyelid twitch.

I agree though about the need for education about medication-assisted recovery. I've written here before about being in school to become a chemical dependency counselor and constantly running up against ignorant, close-minded, judgemental people...in the field of addiction recovery. It was stunning to me how misinformed my teachers were, my classmates were and even when they had people working in the field come in to talk to us 3 out of 4 didn't know crap about Sub and they didn't want to know. So frustrating.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:43 am 
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I thought some of you might want to see it,I know it made me really upset. I find it already hard enough to get my friends and family to understand why one might need suboxone let alone strangers who obviously hate on all of us and have never experienced personal addiction or withdrawal. I don't like that this girl had to tell ABC News something so stupid,and that suboxone use will be even more under fire from this now, I also think everyone who is willing from this website should email ABC about this story and explain that suboxone helps people and how silly this story really is,its endangering something that has saved or enhanced many of our lives.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:05 am 
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I get that RB drug reps are going to sub doctor's offices, but are they going to hospitals and informing them about suboxone? Are they training ER doctors about their new med? That's what I'm talking about and I don't think they are....otherwise, why are all these doctors we run across so damn ignorant about what suboxone even is and it's been out now for 10 freakin' years??

And are they even TRYING to educate THE PUBLIC about this med? NO! So many other drug companies are spending part of the money they earn to air commercials to educate (and to help sell) their products. Where are the Suboxone commercials? I haven't seen ONE! So no, RB is dropping the ball as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if they are going to sub doctors' offices. That's probably for the sole purpose of pushing their damn films, anyway. (Sorry about my pessimism, I wasn't always like this with RB.)

Their efforts to do what they should be doing leave a HELL OF A LOT to be desired and if you ask me, RB should be ashamed of themselves. They are a money-grubbing' household cleaning product company that doesn't know shit about producing medications, and I think they've proven that.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:38 am 
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My fear is this will landslide as well..if you think about the politics, then some cock-blocking legislator will see his opportunity to either a)fight against "big med" in favor of the POTUS healthcare bill, or fight against "big med" and fight the POTUS healthcare bill, so they'll start using these type of tactics to undershoot the medicines effectiveness and make it perceived as a dangerous drug that kills people (speaking of, has there EVER been a documented case where someone was actually ABLE to overdose on Suboxone? I'm just curious)...

I told my wife last night when I read this that the girl would be feeling OK for about 10 days, then those withdrawals will hit and she'll regret ever hearing the word Suboxone...since Suboxone "stacks" in your system, she took enough to last her quite a while...at least a week...so she'll know not to do this shit anymore, IF she gets out...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:55 am 
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I didn't read the entire article because for some reason, I couldn't find the scroll bar on my computer on the page, but from what I did read...anyone with common sense would take this with a grain of salt because she is lucky that it was sub that she took. If she would have taken the same dose of any number of other Rx or even OTC drugs, she would be dead. This article just proves how ignorant she is about Suboxone if she really was trying to attempt suicide, since sub is not an effective drug for that purpose. IMO, it just proves that subs AREN'T as dangerous as some think...hello...she is still alive.

I can't even watch that teen mom show. It's scary that people like that muliply. Oh, I won't even get started on that subject...I don't want my bloodpressure to skyrocket.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:15 pm 
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People have overdosed when combining Suboxone with benzos, especially when injected. The benzos greatly increase respiratory depression. I do not know if anyone has overdosed just on Suboxone though.

Teen Mom & 16 and Pregnant both seriously give me fits of rage. Why the hell is MTV making stars out of these kids? GAH!

And it's not just that. I get all ragey when on 16 & Pregnant they show how fucking isolated the girls are after they have their babies. Can the producers not get them hooked up with any resources, a support group for younger moms, parenting classes, help learning how to cook, budget, run a house? How about some counseling to help with the transition from high-school kid to full-time parent?

And don't even get me started about the baby-daddies.

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 Post subject: Suboxone Overdose
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:11 pm 
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ABSTRACT:

There are very few documented cases of fatal overdoses from Suboxone (buprenorphine) alone in a wealth of medical literature compared to other full-agonist opioids (e.g. morphine, oxycodone).


BACKGROUND:

Suboxone, because of it's ceiling effect at approximately 24-32mg, only becomes deadly when administered with Central Nervous System (CNS) depressants such as benzodiazepines, barbiturates, ethanol (alcohol) or meprobamate or other drugs that affect or depress respiratory depression. This effect is greatly exacerbated if either or any of the combinations of drugs are injected intravenously or parenterally.

Fatal overdose from ingestion of Suboxone are rare and few and far between unless co-administered with other CNS depressants, especially if injected. There are few reports of fatalities in medical literature from Suboxone alone, especially if one is tolerant to its effects. Benzodiazepines can even be safely administered with Suboxone if the patient is tolerant to one or both medications. This is not rare and pays credence to Suboxone's excellent safety-profile.


CONCLUSION:

Suboxone has an excellent safety-profile due to it's partial-agonist effects and the resultant ceiling effect at higher doses. Fatalities from Suboxone generally involve concomitant CNS depressants, such as alcohol, that potentiates the respiratory depressant effect. Rarely do fatalities occur from Suboxone overdoses, as taking more than the recommended amount will provide negligible added respiratory depression. However, there are a few cases of singe-entity Suboxone fatalities, but are extremely uncommon.

Overall, Suboxone is an extremely safe drug, especially when taken as prescribed and used licitly, in comparison to other full-agonist opioids, especially if used in intolerant individuals.



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:23 pm 
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That is a great point, I didn't think of that however it still scares me that my recovery and treatment program might be in danger because someone even more ignorant than this girl will pick up this article and run with it in a political forum.
I do wish that the makers of Suboxone would educate the public and people in the medical field more about this they have a responsibility that they are neglecting. I tried to find a way to email ABC News and couldn't which bums me out,they need to know This girl is full of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:44 am 
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Here's the contact info for ABC for anyone who chooses to contact them:

http://abc.go.com/site/contact-us

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:49 am 
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I have an 11 year-old daughter...and while my sister lived with us (only just recently has she moved "out"), my sister would try to watch this BULLSHIT show when my daughter was in the den ...and I would pitch a royal FIT. We finally told my sister (while kids were in school one day) that "if you want to watch these slutty girls having kids and being stupid, then you RECORD the shit and watch it after my daughter goes to bed."

I'll be damned if she still didn't try to watch the recordings when my daughter was here, and I was nearly ready to call DirecTv and see if I could just have MTV removed (I don't EVER watch that channel, it's trashy and sucks..never anything on there that I want to see anyway)...

Here's the thing, my sister would sit and talk about how dumb those girls were, and how they did stupid things but...she has already had a child at 18, gave him up to the dad (FULL custody), and now has a daughter ...she just turned 23, and her daughter is 19 months old.....

And for someone who makes mistakes like my sister...she's got really no room to talk about this show...but I hate that TV / stardom..etc has turned girls into "baby factories that see opportunity" in being young and pregnant..

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:30 am 
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WOW". what a stupid drug abuse'r using subs to kill her self is just going to make her look more stupid on the news". but most i feel so sorry for is her children.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Thanks Hatmaker,
I contacted them.
Also I want to mention that I do not watch this show or agree with the subject matter, I just saw this story on ABC news.


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 Post subject: halleyzcomet...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Let us know if they respond to you. I'm curious to see what they're comment might be.

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