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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:52 am 
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Hi Ladder,
Somethings you can try for the PAWS, SAMe. It is a supplement that you can take once or twice a day. Get it from a reputable source. I got mine from my Chiripractor. I also took some b vitamins, magnesium, and other supplements. I believe they helped me improve my mood and energy. Your mind has to rewire itself to go back to normal. Everyone's chemistry is different, you may feel better in a few weeks, could be months. I started feeling a lot better about a month ago. I know that it will get even better than this too. Eating healthy also makes you feel better. I would eat guacamole all the time. Tuna, salmon, salads, are all good for the mind.

Rebuild those cells in your brain, and it will get better. I know just how you feel. I tapered off slowly too, and still felt depressed and out of the loop for quite a while. It will get better though, and when it does, you will know it.

Hang in there..I know you will do fine and feel like a new woman before you know it..


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:23 pm 
SherGonnastop wrote:
Hi Ladder,
Somethings you can try for the PAWS, SAMe. It is a supplement that you can take once or twice a day. Get it from a reputable source. I got mine from my Chiripractor. I also took some b vitamins, magnesium, and other supplements. I believe they helped me improve my mood and energy. Your mind has to rewire itself to go back to normal. Everyone's chemistry is different, you may feel better in a few weeks, could be months. I started feeling a lot better about a month ago. I know that it will get even better than this too. Eating healthy also makes you feel better. I would eat guacamole all the time. Tuna, salmon, salads, are all good for the mind.

Rebuild those cells in your brain, and it will get better. I know just how you feel. I tapered off slowly too, and still felt depressed and out of the loop for quite a while. It will get better though, and when it does, you will know it.

Hang in there..I know you will do fine and feel like a new woman before you know it..


Vitamins aren't "miracle pills" per se, but they are pretty important to the eating healthy and exercise combo that I firmly believe is 100% necessary to successfully kick opiates and stay kicked.

About 12 weeks ago, I added vitamins and regular exercise to my goal of eating right, and I believe it really helped make my trip down to .75/day tolerable. I feel so much better both physically and mentally..in fact, I just came down with a bad cold and due to the holidays I haven't been to the gym since Thursday, and I can tell! My body and my
mind crave it, I can't wait to get back out there!

Ladder, those awful sweats are, for me, the HARDEST part of kicking. I cannot stand to be the wrong temperature all the time! Honestly, marijuana helps with that more than anything else I know..I bet kratom would help though too, if you are against smoking.

P.S. It encourages me to read your story and see that you did this thing and are still going strong. Thank you for the inspiration!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:43 am 
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ladder". i'm not 100% sure but, i would still see a doc about your paws. reason is i experienced paws be for i was on suboxone. and paws is all the same no matter how you got it. yes " vitamins will work for energy and a heathy balance diet'
but we are looking at something a little differ't than that. i no it's a rotten time to be thinking about more meds' and i can understand how you feel about it". but we were in to alcohol be for we came to addicting meds. and all this through out many years can mess with are mood levels/depression/anxiety. if i were you i would take a shot at "lexapro" it's not that risky with the side effects. and it really helps people who have gone through alcoholism and drug addiction for a very long time. i'm sorry" and it's your choice? but i see it work for people like us. a friend" is on lexapro for 11 years' not saying i will be.
it just lifts that rotten feeling i no your going through. and it don't take that long to work. its only an antidepress- and not hard to stop. many police men take it for stress, i herd". i hope this will be more help to you?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am 
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laddertipper wrote:
I'm now having some PAWS symptoms and have been on and off. It took me a while to understand that they were actually PAWS. I've read up on PAWS and they mostly address things like depression, inability to focus, etc. Maybe I have some of that, but my biggest issue now is the physical side. I'm still getting chills pretty much everyday. Some days are so minimal that I barely notice it. Other days are worse and I get other things, like cold hands, cold sweating, and a weird smell in my nose. This all seems worse in the mornings when I first wake up.


This is normal coming off any opioid with a long half life. Traces of buprenorphine & methadone linger in the body for months after, and those intermittent withdrawals I'd like to view as "purging / flushing the last bits of bupe / methadone outta my body". It reminded me that it was a part of my recovery, rather than a movement backwards.

Quote:
I firmly believe taking pain meds after that surgery set me back. I did not take an excessive amount or take them for an excessive length of time. However, my body reacted so intensely to them. I finally felt warm, for one. It felt like my system was recognizing something it had been missing and started throwing symptoms at me in between doses.


That's how it works for us opioid addicts sadly. It's the reason why it's so hard for us to use occasionally once we've been addicted. The moment our receptors get introduced to an opioid again, all the old ones from our addiction fire up again pretty quickly, and the recovery takes time as well. It didn't set you back though. It may have slowed it down a bit, but you're still moving forward, yes?

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If you read online about PAWS, there is such a huge time frame, and that's where the mental game starts. I'd like to think I won't have chills & diarrhea for two years every time I eat too much sugar or dairy. How long do you guys think this physical stuff will last? Right now, I'm setting dates, like one month, two months, etc. and telling myself it will be gone by then. This keeps me positive.


This is where I think the whole PAWS concept can be negative to dwell on. It's good to be aware that the feelings of uncomfortability and weirdness are a part of a normal recovery process, and that it's temporary, otherwise people might think it's just how life is without drugs... and go "stuff that, I'd rather be using".

But it is temporary. That being said, I wouldn't play any waiting game. That's a mistake I made for so long, waiting to be out of early recovery (or post-PAWS) before I could live properly, before I'd be me again and could live. For one, PAWS doesn't have an end date. PAWS is so gradual its recovery is almost unnoticeable. I only noticed it when I looked back from 6 months clean at how nuts I was at 1 month, same went for 12 months looking back at 6. It's almost like growing up and maturing in its own way. Life is what happens when we wait for our destination. I find it better to view it as the early recovery period. It's important to not dwell on the sickness, but on the recovery.

I have some doubts as to whether a really slow taper would help much for PAWS for me, just based on some experience in the past.

Fuck vitamins, kratom, marijuana, supplements. The only real cure for PAWS is time, and a bit of hard work. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:55 am 
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SherGonnastop, thank you for coming on and updating, because it's a voice from the other side, yet it hasn't been so long that you have forgotten your experience. And you tapered off slowly too and still went through a bit of a struggle. I like not feeling alone!

Ironic, amen to what you said about the body temp thing totally sucking! I do not like this symptom and it's the most obvious problem I'm having. About marijuana, I have no issue with smoking pot. I don't think it's a big deal in any way other than being illegal. The illegal thing is the deterrent for me, but I did use pot after my surgery. I used it to combat pain, and basically I took a pain pill and ate a cookie (my mom was here so I had to do the edibles), and it certainly helped me cut back the number of painkillers I needed. I was super open with my doctor about this, and he said he couldn't prescribe it to me but he understood my reasoning. I was very afraid of how my body would react to the opiates. I'd use pot for PAWS too, but my symptoms are in the morning, and I absolutely cannot smoke or eat anything in the morning. I have to drive around and stuff.

Johnboy, I see what you are saying, but I don't want to take anything to mask symptoms, only to have to face them later. I don't want to become dependent on anything else and have to taper off it. No friggin' way! If it was like taking Motrin and I could just quit taking it without paying a price for it, that would be different. That's not how most meds work though, even antidepressants.

tearj3rker, does Sub really stay in your body that long? Wow! I've heard so many time frames for when it's out of one's system. It makes sense that it lingers a long time, so even once you are off it, you are still getting off it for a good while. I am done reading anything else about PAWS, especially since there's so little concrete information about it. I don't want to focus on it, but some days, I feel like that is pretty difficult. The holidays have been really nasty, PAWS-wise, and I truly believe it's the food and not having been exercising as much. Tomorrow, I start with my trainer and hopefully this will let up again.

Thanks you guys so much for your responses!! This is temporary, and that is all that matters.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:27 am 
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sorry ladder'. i could have been thinking more of my self" i was just saying we are going to live it anyway.
i suffered bad coming off that abilify :cry: the paws from that was so sevier i could not make one word of nothing"!!
just plain down right every day suffering for 6 months. and lexapro lifted that'. and any oxycontin W/d i went through in the past" was a breeze. i gues suboxone w/d or the paws is not that bad. 1 month 6 months 1 year? i'm still thinking about the years we took all that stuff' and tear" ya" i'm glad you agree " vitamins ain't going to do "SHIT"! walking around with more energy' with a low down feeling" is like putting higher octane petro- in your tank with out a motor :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:42 am 
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Buprenorphine is 5 times more lipid soluble than morphine & heroin.... so it gets stored in body fat a lot more. So small traces can stay in the body for a long while. Methadone still takes the cake though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:03 pm 
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See, the thing with Abilify scares me. I don't want to have to detox off an antidepressant. I have a really, really healthy fear of medication at this point.

Tearj3rker, if I exercise, is that moving it faster out of the fat cells?

I know I can and will keep chugging along, but I'm relieved this board is here. Some days, I wonder what I did wrong with my taper that this could be going on. I am so excited for the day when I can wake up and it's not like whiplash. I hate waking up in the morning. I am excited about the day I can get in bed and fall asleep normally and sleep a normal number of hours. What heaven that will be!!

The weird thing is that I have dreams about Sub sometimes....finding some on the floor and taking it and feeling better and then feeling horribly guilty. LOL. Crazy. I think I am getting frustrated because I sort of forget that I was on Sub and have not been off long. I'm trying to live a totally normal life, which is good, but then I get ticked off that I don't feel right. I need to remind myself that it's okay; I can take it easy; I'm still getting there; I don't need to keep up with anyone else. I'll get their eventually.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:59 pm 
I've hear anti-depressants recommended a lot for when you first get off dope/subs/done.

I think you're doing the right thing, Ladder. I've been on them before and while Prozac may have helped me (ages 8-11), it had it's side effects too..and all of the other ones did nothing or made it worse. They all have awful sexual side effects plus crazy withdrawal symptoms like "brain zaps." Stopping Celexa I got brain zaps..though I didn't taper properly, I was on a very low dose for a short time.

The dreams are normal. It is good to see you persevering, and I really hope you feel better soon!

I read your taper thread, but I forgot, how long were you on Sub? I know you tapered down below .25, right?

You didn't take pain meds (recently, for your surgery) for more than 3-4 days, right? I'm sorry, I have horrible short-term memory. I wouldn't think 3-4 days of pain meds would send someone back into it like it did with you. Makes me nervous to have my surgery done..

Did I already mention that kratom seems to really help a lot of people with PAWS? Never tried it myself though.

I sure hope you are slowly feeling better as time goes on. People like you who are kind enough to share their taper stories keep hope alive for those of us hoping to one day be opiate free.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Ironic wrote:
I've hear anti-depressants recommended a lot for when you first get off dope/subs/done.

I think you're doing the right thing, Ladder. I've been on them before and while Prozac may have helped me (ages 8-11), it had it's side effects too..and all of the other ones did nothing or made it worse. They all have awful sexual side effects plus crazy withdrawal symptoms like "brain zaps." Stopping Celexa I got brain zaps..though I didn't taper properly, I was on a very low dose for a short time.

The dreams are normal. It is good to see you persevering, and I really hope you feel better soon!

I read your taper thread, but I forgot, how long were you on Sub? I know you tapered down below .25, right?

You didn't take pain meds (recently, for your surgery) for more than 3-4 days, right? I'm sorry, I have horrible short-term memory. I wouldn't think 3-4 days of pain meds would send someone back into it like it did with you. Makes me nervous to have my surgery done..

Did I already mention that kratom seems to really help a lot of people with PAWS? Never tried it myself though.

I sure hope you are slowly feeling better as time goes on. People like you who are kind enough to share their taper stories keep hope alive for those of us hoping to one day be opiate free.


Yes, I tapered to between 1/16 & 1/8. Such a tiny dose!! However, I was on Sub for nearly 6 years. For a while my dose was 32 mg. I know it's not supposed to make a difference that I was on it for so long, but....I'm not totally convinced of that.

After my surgery, I took pain meds for around 9 days. This was way longer than I expected to take them, but I had some complications and once that crazy pain hit me, I absolutely forgot all about any fears about them. I could have taken them longer than that, too, but they really did scare me.

So, I hired a trainer and started today. Actually, she gave me the program today and did weight/measurements. I was absolutely dreading this, but I already paid for it, so I was stuck. Now, after meeting with her, I'm soooo super excited. She gave me a whole bunch of rules about my diet, which I really need. Obviously, the whole point to her is for me to be healthier and all ripped and everything, but I'm excited because this will force me to do stuff that will probably make the PAWS easier on me. I just want to feel better. There's no way I'd do these kinds of crazy workouts on my own. And I'd never do them at 4:45 a.m.!! I went out and bought all this healthy crap that I should be eating anyway. Now, I kinda have to, because I have to write down everything I eat. Could be a really good thing! Plus, exercise is a natural antidepressant.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:43 pm 
Ladder, congratulations on working so hard on working out! I don't know how Id do trying to start while I was feeling so icky (why I started during the taper). It's hard for the first few days. Now I wish I had been exercising for years. It really will make you feel better. Idk why, but I used to be really messy, and now that I've been working out I've been cleaning a lot and being careful about making messes. Can't be a bad thing :)

4:45 am is too early for me!!

My personal favorite thing to use is the elliptical. It's low impact and burns more calories than the treadmill, and you can really get your heart rate up.

What have you been doing so far?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:03 am 
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i would like to know why Dr.Junig explains suboxone is complete out of the boby in a much shorter time?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:22 pm 
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ladder" abilify is not an antidepressant' and it worked so well for the first couple of months. it also works very well for other people i know. what i was saying is that an antidepressant is not the same '.
i can see your sorta stuck between a rock and a hard place trying to come up with some thing that just may take time' .
lexapro will not do any thing to you. i can up or lower the dose daily if i want. i take from 5 to 20mgs a day. my doc said its ok to do this' it does not bother that part of the brain that the other meds do. if you have had a history of alcohol prolonged into drug addiction' and tapper off suboxone'. with light paws". LEXAPRO. and of course i'm not a D____? :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:27 pm 
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just trying and believe it will help you ladder? and i wont say anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:47 am 
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You know what? If I can steer clear of more drugs, I'm gonna do that for now. I don't have a whole lot of faith in that approach anymore....I feel like you always have to pay the piper, so you have to decide when it's absolutely necessary.

Ironic, I'm meeting with the trainer twice a week. One day is upper, and one is lower. They are kick ur ass sessions, and they are at 4:45 a.m. Holy crap.....BUT then I feel so good. Well, I guess I feel good. My arms are totally shaking right now, lol. This morning, I had chills at 3:50 when I got up, but I pushed through, ate my correct breakfast of egg whites and oatmeal and a banana, and went and busted it out. And now I feel better! The other days are cardio days. I'm doing 4 days of interval cardio (mainly on the treadmill), where you start walking, walk faster and faster until 5 minutes, run one minute, walk again, etc. Then, one day of endurance running. The easiest for me is the endurance, which I have tons of. The weights kick my butt. All in all, working out early is a good way to start the day and get your mind off your symptoms.

The diet is really helping, IMO. It's not strict, just no sugar, white flour, boxed food, fake food, etc. I can eat tons of fruit and fat and other carbs. And no eating past 7 p.m. I feel better, GI-wise. Still have GI problems, but not quite as bad.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:32 pm 
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laddertipper wrote:
Ironic wrote:
I've hear anti-depressants recommended a lot for when you first get off dope/subs/done.

I think you're doing the right thing, Ladder. I've been on them before and while Prozac may have helped me (ages 8-11), it had it's side effects too..and all of the other ones did nothing or made it worse. They all have awful sexual side effects plus crazy withdrawal symptoms like "brain zaps." Stopping Celexa I got brain zaps..though I didn't taper properly, I was on a very low dose for a short time.

The dreams are normal. It is good to see you persevering, and I really hope you feel better soon!

I read your taper thread, but I forgot, how long were you on Sub? I know you tapered down below .25, right?

You didn't take pain meds (recently, for your surgery) for more than 3-4 days, right? I'm sorry, I have horrible short-term memory. I wouldn't think 3-4 days of pain meds would send someone back into it like it did with you. Makes me nervous to have my surgery done..

Did I already mention that kratom seems to really help a lot of people with PAWS? Never tried it myself though.

I sure hope you are slowly feeling better as time goes on. People like you who are kind enough to share their taper stories keep hope alive for those of us hoping to one day be opiate free.


Yes, I tapered to between 1/16 & 1/8. Such a tiny dose!! However, I was on Sub for nearly 6 years. For a while my dose was 32 mg. I know it's not supposed to make a difference that I was on it for so long, but....I'm not totally convinced of that.

After my surgery, I took pain meds for around 9 days. This was way longer than I expected to take them, but I had some complications and once that crazy pain hit me, I absolutely forgot all about any fears about them. I could have taken them longer than that, too, but they really did scare me.

So, I hired a trainer and started today. Actually, she gave me the program today and did weight/measurements. I was absolutely dreading this, but I already paid for it, so I was stuck. Now, after meeting with her, I'm soooo super excited. She gave me a whole bunch of rules about my diet, which I really need. Obviously, the whole point to her is for me to be healthier and all ripped and everything, but I'm excited because this will force me to do stuff that will probably make the PAWS easier on me. I just want to feel better. There's no way I'd do these kinds of crazy workouts on my own. And I'd never do them at 4:45 a.m.!! I went out and bought all this healthy crap that I should be eating anyway. Now, I kinda have to, because I have to write down everything I eat. Could be a really good thing! Plus, exercise is a natural antidepressant.

laddertipper



Laddertripper you just posted on another website claiming how hard the PAWS are, you can carry on posting here too so people know it doesnt matter how slow you taper the PAWS still stand, for most folks anyway....You see I did say that tapering slow or whatever doesnt make much of a different when it comes to PAWS for long term users as as us...You do not have to be embarassed or anything that tapering didnt work for you, you can still continue to post here instead of that other site...The thing is everybody who I met say PAWS will always be hard and have extreme expression even for couple of years after stopping sub, that what am scared of, you see I told you that tapering doesnt always cut down PAWS..Some people even say you are better off jumping from a high dose as it makes no difference for PAWS, because sub has done something to the brain that it makes these PAWS...First I thought no way can anybody get PAWS after tapetring so slow but your another proof that you can...More and more people are realsing this...

It doesn't make any difference what meds you take or antidepressents because they were not made for post-sub related depression...You see now you now why so many sub users for over 3 years struggle to get off let alone 4-5-6 year users..All because PAWS lasts for so many months and even years....You dont have to worry abt what people will think here if you think of relapsing because of hardcore PAWS, even with a slow long taper, you still can post here instead of other sites, well you can post there too but its good to continue posting here too so people know the progress, who knows maybe it can help them...You see thats why I am not prepared to just taper slow and quit, thats why am planning Iboga..I got to be realistic, PAWS and this horrible extreme depression everybody keeps talking about post-sub is the downfall and what detroys people, so thats why am looking to do Iboga...

I thnk your taper may have have been longer then necessary, you may have accumlated sub then actually reduced it.. Perhaps you stayed on each dose for too long, which just increases half-lives then decreases them.. So to you it looks a long slow taper but in hindisght its adding more and more and more sub and it s half-lives..That may be the reaosn why our suffering depression, withdrawald and PAWS 5 months out....I did say that many people feel okish after 1 month but then it hits them, you see I know what am talking about and what I have read...Bup is a struggle and not many people have come off it after being on it for over 1 year, thats the reality of it..


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Also Laddertipper you aint the only one so don't feel so alone even though sub PAWS make you feel isolated, cold, chills and very lonely..

There was a guy who only ever took codeine for 1 month for a sports injury but got on sub on the advice of the Doctor, somehow he stayed on sub for 1 1/2 year, he is not an addicted, never did drugs or opiates and never did codine for more then 1 month..He suffered BADLY for 14 months AFTER stopping Subutex..He weaned down so slow and jumped from theese temgescis 0.1 and suffered horrible withdrawals for 2 months and these PAWS for 15 months, and this guy is a young and healthy fit guy, he's only 22 for God Sake... You see what bup does to most? God knows how a 1 year user and over can cope..Now this guy is back on Codeine, its so lame he was put on sub, very unfair, but the fact a young non-addict guy suffered horribly and had to revert back to codeine tells its own story, for Christ sake he tapered slow and jumped off from 0.1. He was never on more then 3 mg, thats is so scary.. Common a young health guy who never had depression issues and never had opiated or drugs or even alcohol yet suffered sub withdrawals and PAWS for 14 months, he was almost suicidle, all related to subutex period..The depression he got he thought he was in hell, he tried all sorts of anti-depressants but NONE worke..You see PAWS and depression related from buprenorphine is different to clinical depression and depression non-related to bup, hence why hardly any medicines work.

Such a waste and so unfair, so you can imagaine what a 6 year user will have to go through espacially if they are over 18..Man I feel so worried for you Laddertippper and for myself...But least am planning Ibogaine..I dont care if it's risky and can kill you. I am not going to suffer for so long, I can't.. I just cannot..There was someone who died of Ibogaine recently and she never had any health issues, she even did EKG, liver function test and everything yet Ibogaine killed her.. So its risky, espeacially if you took sub for 6 years as it messes your liver.. And yes I know ibogaine can give brain damage and even more depression because the ibogaine has anti-depressent qualities but its a risk am prepared to take..


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Redemption wrote:
Also Laddertipper you aint the only one so don't feel so alone even though sub PAWS make you feel isolated, cold, chills and very lonely..

There was a guy who only ever took codeine for 1 month for a sports injury but got on sub on the advice of the Doctor, somehow he stayed on sub for 1 1/2 year, he is not an addicted, never did drugs or opiates and never did codine for more then 1 month..He suffered BADLY for 14 months AFTER stopping Subutex..He weaned down so slow and jumped from theese temgescis 0.1 and suffered horrible withdrawals for 2 months and these PAWS for 15 months, and this guy is a young and healthy fit guy, he's only 22 for God Sake... You see what bup does to most? God knows how a 1 year user and over can cope..Now this guy is back on Codeine, its so lame he was put on sub, very unfair, but the fact a young non-addict guy suffered horribly and had to revert back to codeine tells its own story, for Christ sake he tapered slow and jumped off from 0.1. He was never on more then 3 mg, thats is so scary.. Common a young health guy who never had depression issues and never had opiated or drugs or even alcohol yet suffered sub withdrawals and PAWS for 14 months, he was almost suicidle, all related to subutex period..The depression he got he thought he was in hell, he tried all sorts of anti-depressants but NONE worke..You see PAWS and depression related from buprenorphine is different to clinical depression and depression non-related to bup, hence why hardly any medicines work.

Such a waste and so unfair, so you can imagaine what a 6 year user will have to go through espacially if they are over 18..Man I feel so worried for you Laddertippper and for myself...But least am planning Ibogaine..I dont care if it's risky and can kill you. I am not going to suffer for so long, I can't.. I just cannot..There was someone who died of Ibogaine recently and she never had any health issues, she even did EKG, liver function test and everything yet Ibogaine killed her.. So its risky, espeacially if you took sub for 6 years as it messes your liver.. And yes I know ibogaine can give brain damage and even more depression because the ibogaine has anti-depressent qualities but its a risk am prepared to take..


Well, I thank you for your support. Yup, I posted over on that other forum and another forum too. I'm looking for people who have similar experience or whatever. I'm looking to not feel alone....just like everyone else, I guess.

I am not willing to do Ibogaine. I'm too chicken. Of course, I'm also scared for myself after being on Sub so long. I took massive doses for quite a while....it kinda freaks me out at this point, because I had zero clue what I was taking. I believe it was safe for the liver. I was a raging drunk. The last thing I need is something else to piss off my liver.

And I truly believed that I would not have PAWS. My doctor believed I would not. My husband kept saying I wouldn't, even though he doesn't know much about Sub. We just could not comprehend that getting down to a piece so small would end in a case of PAWS. Doesn't it equate to a tiny full agonist dosage? How could it not work? Obviously, it didn't go quite as I expected. Part of me feels like I failed at some point, but I gave it my best shot. Maybe PAWS is inevitable. All I know is that today I feel good and did a good job. I did not feel good this morning, but I pushed through it and it lifted. I am stubborn as all HELL. If there is something that will end up saving me, that is it. I'm going to get better. Maybe I should have just jumped and not tapered, but frankly, that was just too tough for me to get through. I have read a lot about how people on Sub long-term cannot stay off it. That really lights a forest fire under my butt.

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Ladytripper Posts
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:25 pm 
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I have found myself reading every post I can of yours to find out about this P.A.W.'s. But because I am having to skip from one subject matter to another to read about it I am getting confused. For us newbies that have not been here long enough to read back post concernng this long careful taper and the paws being such a nightmare nor do we understand the effects could you educate me/us on this P.A.W.'s. I have read and understand the slow taper but did the doctor tell you when you got on sub's that this paws would or could be the issue it has been? I take methadone is that the same? Because paws has never been mentioned to me. I have been encouraged to stay on methadone as long as I can. Short term methadone versus long term methadone supposedly can be short termers usually relapse and two years is minumin and longer is better. Is that all B.S. and can and will I have to go thru this paws because I choose long term? I mean break it down to me please. I take methadone to escape the opiate withdrawals that might have lasted a few weeks at most and I go to methadone that clearly the withdrawals are going to be stiffer if I fail to slowly slowly taper off to the bad effects of a slow taper is having to remain on methadone even longer which can make me have paws for years which is why I went on methadone in the first place was to AVOID WITHDRAWALS?

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Sorry I don't have time for a long answer but...

I was on Methadone for shortly over a year and experienced PAWS. It is actually how I ended up on Subs...I couldn't handle the PAWS. My PAWS experience started at about two weeks after being Methadone free and peeked a couple months after (can't remember the exact time frames). For me, PAWS included restlessness, a general feeling of discontent, slight anxiety, vivid dreams, never feeling at ease, unhappy (I wouldn't call it depressed), body/temperature control problems....some of this would be simultaneous, other times it woulld be one symptom at a time. All of which had a basic overtone in the back of my brain..("opiates will cure this itch"). Although these symptoms are not DIRECT cravings, I always knew in the back of my head I was still withdrawing. I had no idea PAWS existed but when my psychiatrists offered me subs I knew it would "solve" the problem. Now I'm back to square 1...wanting to get off Subs but fearing months, maybe years of the above mentioned. HOpe this helps.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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