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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:03 pm 
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This is my first post so I hope I'm doing this right! I desperately need some support from people who have fought this battle and understand.. I relapsed in April on heroin - IV. One time turned into almost 10 months of hell.. I've been on subs before but never kept up with ur. I have spent countless hours searching online for some guidance and to calm me down.. I went to detox in November and was sober 8 days only to use the sane day I got out. My habit is now a gram a day IV. My dr wrote me a script for 2 mg subutex for the first 24 hrs and then 8 mg suboxone after. My research has only made me extremely paranoid of going into PWDS. I never have thank God.. but now my fear has me running back to dope.. my dad is spending the weekend to help me thru this. Yesterday I did half a gram at 10 am. All day I obsessed anticipating withdrawals. I laid down in bed around 1230 am.. I had cold sweats and terrible anxiety. I did not sleep at all.. started sneezing a lot and runny nose.. tossing and turning all night long.. kicking my legs and stretching nonstop with my body aching.. tears streaming down my face. Sweating then freezing. Smoked some buds to calm down. 7 am came around and I started going to the bathroom frequently. At 945 am I broke down and used a little over half a gram. Last shot was at 11 am. I feel like I was definitely ready to take the subutex.. but I am terrified of pwds. I know it's more in my mind.. so now I have to go thru another horrible night.. I know everybody is different but I'm looking for some advice.. what would you do? I absolutely need to do this. I'm so SO sick of this life. I'm going to wait until11 am tomorrow so it's 24 hrs but do you think I would be ok taking it earlier? Thank you for any help..!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:21 pm 
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Hello LaFlare,

I can identify completely! It's an understandable anxiety. Most of us have had it.

If you wait until you're good and sick, well into moderate WD on the COWS google if not familiar) you very likely have nothing to worry about. Even if you do have PW, it's almost a sure bet it won't be too bad, relatively speaking, as long as you've waited a sufficient amount of time.

I was very worried too...waiting 31 hours...but I wasn't really all that sick. I did go into PW, but only lasted a couple hours and while no fun, it's not the worst thing that ever happened to me by a long shot. MY anxiety and worry were way out of proportion to what actually happened.

I could add more, but I want to get this to you as soon as possible. More people will be along
to reassure. Feel free also to PM me. I usually don't add that, but I feel like since I've been through it
I have something to offer

Best wishes,
Godfrey

IN answer to your question, google COWS/withdrawal. Once you check that out, establish whether or not you're in moderate WD. It sounds like you are, but the fact that you used this morning is a complicate factor.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Godfrey,

Thank you so much for replying. I appreciate it so much. Thank you for your encouragement! Talking with people who have been there and gone thru it helps so much. Right now I'm still feeling fine. It's been a little over 5 hours since my last use. Ugh - I was already at 24 miserable hours but I freaked myself out about pwds and used. Oh well I can't change it now. I so miss being ALIVE.. I miss being happy. I never leave the house and the only time I live for is my next fix.

I am scared for what is to come. There is no more money to give up again tomorrow. I have so much anxiety. I know I make it worse on myself. My bf is also going thru this with me.. we've tried this every weekend for months so I had my dad come stay with us. He is a saint I swear. I felt so guilty using this morning and letting him down. I know I'm at the point if we don't stop we are going to lose everything we have.

Thank you again so much.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Please don't beat yourself up. We're addicts. Which mean we do dumb, addict things. I promise you
you'll have your life back once you get this behind you. Person after person here will welcome you with open arms and testify as to how wonderful it is to be free from cravings. After that of course, it's up to us to put our lives back together.

So wait your 24 hours, Use the scale I suggested. If you're decently into moderate before you jump, there's very little to worry about.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:32 am 
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Come on, Laflare! You can get through the hours until you are feeling unwell enough to take the sub! We've all been there, we've all had to do it. I'm sure many of us would admit to being the biggest baby in the world when it was our turn to get through the withdrawals

Wait your time and get started with the 2mg. I'm not totally sure why your doctor only wanted you to have 2mg for the first 24 hours, but it's a start. Once you start using the 8mg the next day, you'll probably be feeling a lot better.

Keep talking to us. We will support you as best we can as you transition. You will get to a good place soon! It was a revelation to me that I was no longer obsessing over my next high all the time! I had so much extra time on my hands! Just try to be as strong as you can over the next several hours. You can do this!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:20 am 
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Morning Laflare. Like Amy, I've no doubt at all that you can do this.

We addicts are catastrophists. We constantly scan the horizon for any and every possible threat, and when
we see one, we imagine the very worst is about to happen. It's exhausting and counterproductive
and altogether the wrong approach to life.

Not many of us go into PW. I have no idea what the statistics are, but for those who follow the protocol
it's rare. And for those few who do experience it, again assuming moderate WD, it's on the mild side.
I didn't really understand that when I was preparing to jump. So as addicts do, I imagined the very worst. All
it turned out to be was a sudden worsening of symptoms, mostly restless legs. Assume a scale of 1-10 with the low numbers being mild withdrawal and the high numbers more severe. I'd say I went from a 5 to a 7. I dealt with it by pacing around the house, The weird thing was that after all that worry, when it actually happened i wasn't even that anxious about it I think I was just so relieved I was finally in the process
of getting my life back.

Despite not understanding so many things, I did get that after 12 hellish years, I was on my way to
freedom. This was the only way out, and I'd at last found the courage to take it. Two hours later, as suddenly
as it had begun, the PW was over. From there I was just mildly dope sick for a few days, with each successive
day bringing substantial improvement.

By day 4 I felt better than I'd felt in a very long time. I went to bed that night with a feeling of gratitude
that was something close to bliss.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:21 am 
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U can do this laflare!

I waited 32 hrs, which I think I could have went earlier but regardless I was a nervous wreck! I am a huge huge baby when it involves withdrawal. I've had three children and the thought of withdrawal scares the bejebus out of me :) but I made it and it was worth it and saved my life. It'll save urs too if u let it.

Ur father seems very supportive and be sure to give him much appreciation after ur feeling better. And ur right, if u keep using, it's very likely that u will lose everything like I did. U have every reason in the world to get through this induction and I wish u tons of success!!!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:57 am 
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Thank you so much everyone.. thankfully I slept last night.. now it is 745 am and I have tears streaming down my face and extremely anxious. Trying to calm down. I'm at about 21 hrs since last use.. trying to just make it to atleast 24..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:25 am 
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Just in case you don't have this scale, here's a link for you. Score yourself honestly and it's very difficult to go wrong. It takes much of the guesswork out of the process. Where you are on the scale is more important than time, which really is no more than a guess (as to how long you should wait).


http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_ind ... _sheet.pdf


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:51 am 
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Definitely go to that link Godfrey just posted if u don't already have access to the COWS.

Personally I think ur very close. Just remember, even if u did have pw (I'm not at all saying u will) u would get through it. I think you've built up this awful scenario in ur mind and worrying urself. Try to look at the positive side of this, if u do right in this treatment, ur going to have a second chance at life again :) Ur not going to be thinking of heroin 24/7 anymore, ur gonna have money, ur gonna have peace of mind..... and peace of mind is what mattered most to me.

Please keep us updated!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:35 am 
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When I inducted into sub from IV heroin, I wasn't even aware or made aware of the COWs scale. I went in with some moderate yawning and tearing. I don't remember my last shot amount, but I don't think it was more than 18 hrs prior. I was given two tabs of 8mg suboxone to take one hour apart. Worked fine. Spent a week or ten days not feeling so hot, but def not PWD. I think you got this. Good luck and keep posting!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:57 pm 
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Unfortunately right before I was getting ready to take my sub my boyfriend started flipping out and we used. Very discouraging.. I'm so mad at myself and feeling hopeless my poor dad left in tears. I don't know where to go from here.. God please help me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Also I realize I didn't explain very well what my dr prescribed. He gave me 4 2mg subutex to take the first day.. 2 mg at a time until stabilized. I've cancelled three weeks in a row :(


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:44 pm 
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Yeah, that's pretty discouraging all right. I feel bad for you father, and you. Not sure about the boyfriend.
Sometimes one partner has to keep the other sick in order not to feel abandoned. It's a pretty terrible disease, especially when considered in all dimensions. I'll tell you in all honesty, that was not a loving act. But he's sick too. Sometimes people have to separate in order to recover.

It's a journey. For all of us. It used to be a pretty grim outlook for narcotics addicts. Then Methadone came along and more made it. Now buprenorphine's here and more and more are finding a way out.

I hope you're going to be one of them. And I continue to believe you will. Perhaps you've finally hit
bottom. They don't call desperation a gift for nothing. May you find it in sufficient quantity.

Best wishes,
G.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Godfrey is right, sometimes our addicted partner keeps us sick....it did me. I wouldn't have ever gotten help with my ex because he's still using to this day. How the heck can ya with someone freaking out wanting to use, nobody is strong enough in active addiction to stop using with it in front of their face, just won't happen. I think u have some major thinking to do. Ur gonna have to change some things because if nothing changes nothing changes.

I'm an addict just like u, we all are on this forum, so we aren't here to judge u. We're here to tell u that this treatment works! But... u have to put in the work too.

Pretty soon, ur father is going to lose hope and you'll be without his support, it will happen. Pretty soon, ur doctor will not have an opening for u if u keep cancelling appointments. Doctor's have waiting lists upon waiting lists for addicts really needing their help. If ur not careful, ur chance for this moment will pass and who knows how long you'll be waiting for another appointment. One of these times could be an overdose with bad stuff. These choices ur making could be some of ur only chances. So please think about u and do what u know ur heart is telling u to.

I hope u understand we aren't mad, we've been there. We aren't judging u, we just want u to live the life u deserve out of active addiction. Ur so close, u just have to do it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:34 pm 
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Quote:
because if nothing changes nothing changes.


Jennifer, we're so lucky to have you here. That comment of yours was magnificent. I mean it.
Just lovely.

And that's right, No one's judging. How many opportunities and chances did I blow? (answer, many).
And that's so right about this being a moment...a chance...that might not come around again. Many
things can happen. Including death by overdose. For everyone who makes it, many more don't.

Thanks again, Jennifer. If Laflare reads just one more response, no matter how many more arrive, it should be yours.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Thank you SO much.. you are all so strong and kind to take the time to help me. I look up to you all truly. I would give anything to be on the other end of this nightmare. But just like I got myself here I must get myself out. I feel like I'm screaming but no sound is coming out. I struggle with major depression and panic disorder, as I'm sure most can relate I have been self medicating with this devil of a drug. I knew better but just that instant escape pulls me in. But the high is never enough. There is no amount of dope that will ever be enough because eventually you come down and face the same issues but with shame and dope sickness. I hope anyone who is struggling with cravings can read my posts and be reminded of why being sober is so worth it. I have to go through this sooner or later and I'd much rather wd at home instead of a jail cell and I know that is inevitable - or a casket. Thank you again for the support everybody.. I will continue to post.. I have my appointment for Wednesday and would LOVE to make it with the sub started. I'm currently unemployed and weekdays are very difficult because I am home alone all day. I have the opportunity which I should be grateful for and stop taking for granted. I'm just a mess :(


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:55 pm 
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Hello Leflair,
Heres what you do now. Start over. Go though it again as before and you will get there. You can
be one of us. By tomarrow night!!
So sorry you guys picked up again but thats addiction all right. I won't repeat what others have said but just know if we all can get to the other side you can too.
They call this a family disease, and ya your dad is feeling it too. Show him that you are ready. I had to ask myself if I was ready when the time came. I was tired of the pain as you well know . So... good luck, hang on and keep the drugs out of the house.
Sometimes in couples it works and sometimes ,well it doesn't. I hope the two of you have the same strength.

Peace razor


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Hey Laflare,

You've received some incredible, well said and thoughtful caring comments here from jennjenn, Godfrey and Razor tonight. Really good posts and i know you're thinking about their words.

Sounds like maybe 11 am ish today was your last use? If so, my thought is you could induce tomorrow at 7-8 am ish? Or before? Seems like you're waiting too long or don't need to wait so long. You'll be alone tomorrow, so thinking no BF interruptions so looks like a good day to start bup and add in more bup throughout the day. Since you and your BF have been trying to induct together on many wknds, that's clearly not working. So, I encourage you to go ahead on your own tomorrow and start bup! And you'll meet your goal to be on bup for your Weds Dr appt! You're more courageous than you know, we see it w you coming here with speaking honestly and asking for help! Can't wait to welcome you to your new life on bup. Wishing you my best, P

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Quote:
But the high is never enough. There is no amount of dope that will ever be enough because eventually you come down and face the same issues but with shame and dope sickness.


This is well said. I never had a decent high that I didn't at least partly wreck by reminding myself it wouldn't last. Just the thought was enough to bring me down some. It's a terrible way to live.

I have a dog who reminds me of myself. (That's a sentence I'm not too proud of writing. :D But he craves meat in the way I used to crave drugs. The trouble is he can't have it because he's got liver problems.

So he's on a low protein diet. A few times I've taken pity on the poor guy and given him a little piece of meat off my plate, when my wife wasn't looking :D . But I can't give him anymore because it's just not good for him.. All that little piece of meat does is make him unhappy. He starts whining and begging and sometimes can go on for hours, long after we've washed the dishes and left the kitchen.

Those few seconds of pleasure nearly drive him crazy with the lust for more. Not even close to being worth it. I'll never do it again.


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