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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:34 pm 
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I've always found (with any opiate agonist, and also with sub) that I cannot sleep, even if drowsy. Once during a taper I was having too much withdrawal so took 1mg and was up for HOURs. I can't take it later than about 3PM. Same deal in the bad old days with HC.

Anyone else find this? I'd always assumed that opiates, being a repiratory depressant and all, would make you sleepy.


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 Post subject: Me too
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:18 am 
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Yes, for sure, I've always found that opiates tend to keep me awake--especially my DOC (heroin). I would stay awake for days on end, getting only an hour or so of sleep hear and there, and then eventually I'd crash out and sleep for a really long stretch. Of course, there were times of "nodding" but that was not real sleep by any means, just a state of semi-conscious, but awake, in a stupor. Other than heroin though, I think with other opiates that effect eventually would did get to a point where I could sleep on heroin. As for suboxone--when I first started taking it I was surprised to find that it affected me very much like heroin in many ways-including the inablity to sleep. I also got a couple of terrible headaches at the beginiing of my suboxone treatment--which is an effect that I can get from taking too high a dose of an opiate--headaches that literally make me feel like I'm going to die! But with sub, after taking it it for not too long I could sleep just fine again and didn't get any more headaches from it either. If anything, now it may be contributing to me sleeping too much rather than too little. I think I read in your other posts that you've been on sub for about three years? I've never heard anyone on sub for that long complain about it keeping them awake, although many people on this forum who are on sub seem to take sleep aids as well. But you also said below, if I understand correctly that once, after reducing your dose by tapering, and then one time taking more sub again (?--that is the 1 mg you mentioned?) it kept you awake for hours...to me that makes sense as you must have lowered your tolerance to sub from the tapering. But like you, I have no idea as to WHY any opiate would cause this effect of wakefulness. Maybe it's something like alcohol--that although it's essentially a depressant it also acts in some ways as a stimulant and also for some reason tends to disrupt a normal sleep cycle. If anyone can explain WHY, I too would be interested in hearing it. I also wonder what is it exactly that causes those HORRIBLE headaches when I would take too much heroin or other opiate. Migraine headaches-- I'm not just calling 'em "migraines" because they would be so excruciatingly painful, but because of the symptoms of extreme photosensitivity, nausea and vomiting (to the point of vomiting up bile, and sometimes dry heaves for hours), the pain on one side of the head (always the same side), and pain in (or behind?) one eye (always on that same side). I have had headaches like these, unrelated to taking any opiates or other substances or medications, since i was a child, and they were diagnosed as migraines by my doctor (when I was a child). Although, the opiate-induced headaches have definitely been among the absolute worst of any migraine I've ever had. Seriously, if anyone knows of any explanation of exactly what processes are involved in opiates causing inability to sleep and also the kind of headaches I've described, I'd be very interested to hear.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Auto, Your headaches could have been caused by an increase in intracranial pressure due to opioids/opiates. STP


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:44 am 
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going through sleep problems now (not related to buep) but i have noticed that in the past if i took it late in the evening i would toss and turn for a few hours before getting to sleep. i have had friends say the exact same thing. try ya some benadryl or melatonin may help out unless there is an underlying issue for your lack of sleep.


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 Post subject: Same Problem
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:17 pm 
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I take my Sub dose at 9am once a day. On the rare occasion when I took an additional dose in the evening it always kept me awake for hours, even if I took an Ambien.

Same thing used to happen when I took too much hydro late at night. Vivid dreams in a semi awake state. Don't like it at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Foggy wrote:
I've always found (with any opiate agonist, and also with sub) that I cannot sleep, even if drowsy. Once during a taper I was having too much withdrawal so took 1mg and was up for HOURs. I can't take it later than about 3PM. Same deal in the bad old days with HC.

Anyone else find this? I'd always assumed that opiates, being a repiratory depressant and all, would make you sleepy.


HI FOGGY,
I'M SORRY YOU CAN'T SLEEP....( I CAN'T EITHER). I AM A NURSE AND I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TAUGHT THAT OPIATES WERE UPPERS NOT DOWNERS,HOWEVER, MY HUSBAND CAN TAKE A HYDROCODONE FORPAIN AND IT KNOCKS HIM RIGHT OUT....ME ON THE OTHER HAND...ACT JUST THE OPPOSITE...I CAN TAKE HYDRO AND MANY MORE THAN HE TOOK...AND I AM WIRED..READY TO GO..WORK GOOD ..GET THINGS DONE ..MIND GOING 90 TO NOTHING.. AND ESPECIALLY IF I TAKE THEM AT NIGHT LETS SAY AFTER 6:00 I AM UP ALL NIGHT. SO I HAVE A THOUGHT ON THIS...MAYBE ADDICTS REACT TO OPIATES AS UPPERS AND NORMAL PEOPLE DO NOT? ANY THOUGHTS? THANKS FOR LETTING ME SHARE..


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 Post subject: Re: Me too
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:07 pm 
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autononymous wrote:
Yes, for sure, I've always found that opiates tend to keep me awake--especially my DOC (heroin). I would stay awake for days on end, getting only an hour or so of sleep hear and there, and then eventually I'd crash out and sleep for a really long stretch. Of course, there were times of "nodding" but that was not real sleep by any means, just a state of semi-conscious, but awake, in a stupor. Other than heroin though, I think with other opiates that effect eventually would did get to a point where I could sleep on heroin. As for suboxone--when I first started taking it I was surprised to find that it affected me very much like heroin in many ways-including the inablity to sleep. I also got a couple of terrible headaches at the beginiing of my suboxone treatment--which is an effect that I can get from taking too high a dose of an opiate--headaches that literally make me feel like I'm going to die! But with sub, after taking it it for not too long I could sleep just fine again and didn't get any more headaches from it either. If anything, now it may be contributing to me sleeping too much rather than too little. I think I read in your other posts that you've been on sub for about three years? I've never heard anyone on sub for that long complain about it keeping them awake, although many people on this forum who are on sub seem to take sleep aids as well. But you also said below, if I understand correctly that once, after reducing your dose by tapering, and then one time taking more sub again (?--that is the 1 mg you mentioned?) it kept you awake for hours...to me that makes sense as you must have lowered your tolerance to sub from the tapering. But like you, I have no idea as to WHY any opiate would cause this effect of wakefulness. Maybe it's something like alcohol--that although it's essentially a depressant it also acts in some ways as a stimulant and also for some reason tends to disrupt a normal sleep cycle. If anyone can explain WHY, I too would be interested in hearing it. I also wonder what is it exactly that causes those HORRIBLE headaches when I would take too much heroin or other opiate. Migraine headaches-- I'm not just calling 'em "migraines" because they would be so excruciatingly painful, but because of the symptoms of extreme photosensitivity, nausea and vomiting (to the point of vomiting up bile, and sometimes dry heaves for hours), the pain on one side of the head (always the same side), and pain in (or behind?) one eye (always on that same side). I have had headaches like these, unrelated to taking any opiates or other substances or medications, since i was a child, and they were diagnosed as migraines by my doctor (when I was a child). Although, the opiate-induced headaches have definitely been among the absolute worst of any migraine I've ever had. Seriously, if anyone knows of any explanation of exactly what processes are involved in opiates causing inability to sleep and also the kind of headaches I've described, I'd be very interested to hear.






TO ME TOO,

A HEADACHE AROUND THE EYE AND SO PAINFUL AS YOU DESCRIBE COULD BE A CLUSTER HEADACHE. THESE ARE THE MOST PAINFUL HEADACHES OF ALL..I HAVE HEARD OF SOME PEOPLE COMMITTING SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THE PAIN. ALSO DID YOU EVER FEEL (DURING THE HEADACHE) LIKE YOU HAD COBWEBS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF YOUR FACE AND WOULD REACH YOUR HAND TO YOUR FACE TO REMOVE THEM>? THAT IS ANOTHER SIGN OF CLUSTER HEADACHES.
MY HUSBAND STARTING HAVING THEM AT AGE 59, CAME ON SUDDENLY, WAS NOT RELIEVED MUCH BY PAIN MED. AND FINALLY (SORRY ALL M.D.'S!) ENDED UP GOING TO A CHIROPRACTOR...HAS NOT HAD ONE SINCE....


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