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 Post subject: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:22 pm 
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I have an appointment to get a new suboxone prescription Friday. The news is saying that we are to get ICE and probably have power outages starting Thursday night into Friday. I live in the South so we are not used to snow and ice. When we do get anything..everything closes down. Last time it iced bad we were stuck with no electricity for 2 and a half weeks!! My suboxone doctor is 35 minutes away but the roads from my house to get to his office are hilly and lots of curves. I called the doctors office and asked about the weather and should I come in on Thursday maybe? A very sweet woman answered and just said I don't make those decisions...she did know about the weather but said it was all up to the doctor. I am pretty sure others are calling asking also. I am just starting to panic and wondering what to do if I do run out because I am almost out of suboxone, my appointment refill is due Friday so I am supposed to be almost out of them. Anyone ever had this situation before? On top of that I am now keeping my 10 month old grandbaby for a while (that is a whole other long story) and I had to change my phone number (but I called earlier in the week and let them know in a voice mail my new number and sent an email). I sure don't want to be out of suboxone going through withdrawals and trying to take care of a 10 month old with and no electricity. That is my idea of a freaking nightmare!! Help!! I do have chronic pain also and the suboxone seems to help with the pain well suboxone and advil My Nightmare is NO SUBOXONE, taking care of a baby, going through withdrawals and being in severe pain.


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:37 pm 
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If I were you, I'd start cutting my dose down right now. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

How much Suboxone do you take daily?

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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Angel....your "what if'n " yourself into a panic...i understand fear, but just maybe this things will work out ok.
Uno i used to worry about runing out an having things go wroug. So i made a plan, though the help of people here to cut back my dose,an hold a little back. Since that time ive never worried again. . I do hope things work out for you friday. I bet they do..however id cut back my dose starting today. Just a suggestion....
razor....


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:49 pm 
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I take 8mgs a day. I'm sorry guys I am just the worrying type. I have never been lucky..lol. I am going to cut down as low as I can go. Thanks for the quick replies. I will make sure I have a razor. That is a great idea btw..the razor.


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:13 pm 
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When I was on Suboxone, I worried before every single app't I had. I would think things like, did my doctor up and leave town, maybe she was in an accident and won't be able to make it in today, I wonder if she's sick today and won't be there. So, you're not alone in being a worrier.

Like Razor said, building up a small stockpile of Suboxone can help alleviate these worries so much.

For now, if you're able to cut your dose to 6mg or 4mg, that'll give you a bit of extra if you're not able to see your doctor Friday. If the ice is bad Friday and you can't make it to him, you could always call his office and hope one of them made it in and ask them to phone in your prescription.

I hope everything works out for ya.

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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:21 pm 
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I do the very same thing!! I worry every time I go to the doctor also...is there going to be some reason for me not to get my suboxone that is out of my control? Oh my!! I know better now and in the future I will always make sure I have extras on hand. Withdrawal scares me to death!! I have heard (don't know if it is a rumor or true) that suboxone withdrawal is the worst withdrawal there is..especially jumping from 8 mgs a day to nothing!! I think the only thing they said was worse was jumping off of Methadone.


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:48 pm 
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^ I don't believe that to be true, at all. Firstly, you wouldn't even feel any real withdrawal from the suboxone until about 3 days in, so there's quite a bit of padding there. What hits first is the panic & anxiety, mostly about what is to come. If we were talking about Oxy, you'd be shitting yourself the very next day. When people talk about the severity of sub withdrawal, it's usually in regards to the length of time the symptoms last, not the intensity (unless you jump from a very high dose.)

It's good to worry about "what ifs" in my opinion. It can be stressful, but there are all kinds of emergencies that can happen and it's good to be prepared for them. I'd hound your doctor's office until they call you in a script. I've seen the weather forecast and it looks pretty crazy where you are. I wouldn't chance it and they should be trying to minimize the amount of patients trying to get to them in a storm (if they even come in at all.) Keep calling and demand to talk to someone who CAN make decisions. That's what I'd do. I try to make people do what I want, or stuff never gets done. KWIM?

Good luck!! Stay warm :)


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:00 pm 
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That made me feel way better about the Suboxone withdrawal!! Thank you for that Tiny!! I will continue to call and to send emails. I hope they decide something soon so I can get on to preparing other things..like getting food, water and other essentials!! I sure hope we don't lose power...it was rough the last time this happened!! Thanks for the advice!! You guys made me feel better that's for sure!!


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:07 pm 
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Guess what guys? They are going to see me tomorrow!! THANK GOODNESS!! Thank you guys so much for being there for me. Thank you for the support!! At least that is one worry off my mind!!


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Great news! So much better to get it out of the way early so you don't have to stress about it. Think about stock piling a bit if you can. It's worth it and you shouldn't feel a minor dose reduction. Just a thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:24 pm 
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I sure will Tiny!! I have learned my lesson for sure!! I will make sure I always have extras from now on. Worrying and Stressing out over it is not fun!! Thanks again!!


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:13 pm 
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Yeah like everyone says saving extras is a a necessity, most of these drs don't even believe there is any kind of withdrawal symptoms from subs so they usually act flippant about your worries or just don't care at all and somehow point the blame at us. I learned a long time ago that nobody but me gives a crap if I have enough meds so so I have a huge stockpile to keep my nerves calm. Pharmacies are the same way, I dropped off my subutex rx to be ordered last wednesday and they said "will be here saturday" and of course I call and they say "it was delayed due to the holiday and will be here tuesday". Which doesn't matter to me because I have a stockpile for this very reason but its like what about the people who don't ya know? Are they supposed to puke and shit all over themselves and ache and cry at thanksgiving dinner in front of their family? These people just don't understand just how much we rely on this medication and frankly I don't think they care either.


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Hey, that's great news, angelgirl. I'm glad things worked out!!

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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:11 pm 
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Well good, see nothing to worry about! Ph and my name os Razor here. I wasnt suggesting to you to use a razor! Lol..i gota kick out of that..glad for you angel..
Oh and the WHAT IFS, i think just add to misery. Always good to play it smart an be prepared but is good to have faith that things will work out..
Good luck ...razor


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Great news Angel. Most of us have worried at one point or another about running out. Stashing some away is the best advice. What you might want to try is to cut your 8 mg film in half and only take that for several days, stockpiling the rest. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that you never felt any discomfort from the taper. Then try to stay at 4 mg's and tell your doctor on the next visit. You should have a nice backup supply by then.

Good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:54 pm 
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Ha Ha Ha!! Razor I thought you meant if I had to start cutting it with a razor and use just a tiny bit at a time...lol. Nice to meet you Razor..lol. Thank you so much everyone!!! I learned such a valuable lesson today. I don't ever want to be in that position again. I think every person who takes this medication needs to learn to put some back. To stockpile for the just in case!! Especially during this time of the year when you have holidays and bad weather!! You sure are right about the pharmacy also. THEY DO NOT CARE!! It was so nice to see everyone so helpful!! I don't feel alone now I feel like I have people who understand behind me and don't just look at me as a drug addict. Thank you everyone!!


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:01 am 
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After having many patients in withdrawal from buprenorphine or agonists, I know that buprenorphine withdrawal is pretty miserable. But if you pick up a copy of 'goodman and gillman's pharmacologic basis of therapeutics'-- the bible of pharmacology in the 1980's and 1990's--- buprenorphine is described as 'not generally associated with discontinuation symptoms' because of it's antagonist properties.

I'm sure people will argue, but buprenorphine withdrawal-- even after abruptly stopping at 16 mg per day-- is not as severe as withdrawal from heroin, oxycodone, or my drug of choice, fentanyl. I see people coming off agonists before every induction; most can barely make it to my office. Some get to my office and literally cannot leave the bathroom. All are pale, quick to cry, and extremely tired. On the other hand, people at any stage of buprenorphine withdrawal are able to type on computers, come to appointments, and in some cases go to work. People coming off agonists do not type on computers or make youtube videos! They lie on the floor or bed with legs wrapped in sheets to keep them from constantly jerking, crawling to the jon every 10 minutes.

I think the reason people think buprenorphine is worse is because few people make it all the way through agonist withdrawal. Doing so requires locked confinement for many people-- whereas people will go through buprenorphine withdrawal. I think that is why people think buprenorphine withdrawal is longer, too-- because stopping an agonist from a significant dose, and making it all the way to complete lack of withdrawal symptoms, is relatively rare. In my own detox from fentanyl, I remember being 2 months out and still having no appetite, being winded by walking 100 feet, etc. Buprenorphine adds a few days onto withdrawal at the front end, as the drug level works down to the point where opioid effects begin to decrease... but I don't see those few days as significantly lengthening the withdrawal period as much as freaking people out, by having symptoms increase dramatically just when the person is thinking 'gee, that wasn't that bad!'

Then again, people have very different experiences during withdrawal. I have one patient who claims to never have experienced withdrawal, whether from oxy or buprenorphine. I have several patients who claimed to have no withdrawal from buprenorphine. Then there are the people who describe horrible experiences. There is clearly a lot of individuality to the misery of withdrawal. I wish, though, people would stop scaring each other with comments that just are not true--like 'Suboxone withdrawal is worse than anything else' or 'the longer you take it, the worse it is'. Neither are true. In fact I know many people who HAVE tapered and stopped buprenorphine, after trying to do the same and failing many times with agonists. I also know that people do better tapering who have been on it LONGER; many people seem to get to a point where they are just ready to stop-- and then they stop. People who stop buprenorphine at 6 or 12 months, or after 'rapid detox', do not do well. In fact, I just got an email tonight about another former patient who died from overdose; he left my practice in 2009 because he wanted to REALLY be clean.

I suspect most people hear no somebody who died in a similar fashion.

Now that states are increasingly regulating buprenorphine, I suspect the number of physicians prescribing it will continue to fall. That's too bad-- because if you think opioid dependence stinks now, it was a lot worse in the days before Suboxone. Might be time to invest in methadone.


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:28 am 
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suboxdoc wrote:
Now that states are increasingly regulating buprenorphine, I suspect the number of physicians prescribing it will continue to fall. That's too bad-- because if you think opioid dependence stinks now, it was a lot worse in the days before Suboxone. Might be time to invest in methadone.

Im confused and scared by this statement, I haven't paid attention to the political side of subs I just go to my doctor every 2 months and Ive never heard any of this from him. Are you saying that those of us who may be on buprenorphine for an indefinite time or have been on it for years are just going to have the rug pulled out from under us and either be told "F you junky go through hellish withdrawal after we've told you this drug is ok and strung you along all this time" or the only other option is to go to a methadone clinic and hand over our day to day freedom? I really hope thats not what you meant because Im panicking now, ive been on it 3.5 years and my dr is fairly old and I also have adverse reactions to suboxone and he has Rx'd subutex for me for the past 3 years, if he retires am I just screwed? I doubt any new dr I would be forwarded to would be compassionate and actually continue my subutex even though I have 3 years documented of me taking it and I can't take suboxone and I damn sure can't afford the $400+ it costs at the methadone clinic. Looks like I wont sleep very good tonight wtf


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:50 am 
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Suboxdoc thank you so much for the great info!! I don't understand why people scare other people like that?! Fear and panic can only make things worse!! I am so grateful to have suboxone!! I wish I was one of the lucky ones that could just stop regular pain meds with no withdrawals. I was just going off the info I had seen on the internet as I have no experience in withdrawing from Suboxone. So thank you for easing my mind. Even though Suboxone is costing me an arm and a leg I am grateful for it. Don't know what I would do if my Suboxone doctor quit prescribing. There is no way I could do the methadone. Our clinic is very expensive and you have to go everyday (the gas money alone would be outrageous) because the clinic is quite a bit away.


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 Post subject: Re: Panic is setting in!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Quote:
Im confused and scared by this statement, I haven't paid attention to the political side of subs I just go to my doctor every 2 months and Ive never heard any of this from him. Are you saying that those of us who may be on buprenorphine for an indefinite time or have been on it for years are just going to have the rug pulled out from under us and either be told "F you junky go through hellish withdrawal after we've told you this drug is ok and strung you along all this time" or the only other option is to go to a methadone clinic and hand over our day to day freedom?[


These things move slowly. There has been some talk about changes, but we will have months in order to prepare. You won't get a script one month and then be told it is over the next. It has happened to people but that is due to something involved with the individual physician. For example, an arrest, loss of license, closing the clinic or similar circumstance.
PAX


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