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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:34 pm 
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No use trying to catch a buzz on pain meds if you're a Suboxone patient. I finally came to the conclusion that I feel so much better on my Sub than trying to catch a buzz on the Lortabs.

They may work for pain but I couldn't tell any difference. In order for pain meds to actually work for me I would need to be off the Sub for over a month or more. What ended up happening (again) was taking too many just so I could feel them. Then the guilt comes back and I give up right away and go back on my Sub. My wife said she can tell my personality difference when taking the Lortabs vs the Sub and is pleased that I'm back to my old self.

So here is my plan. Stay on Sub until I need more pain meds for whatever pain I'll be facing in the future. I do have an appt. with a Pain Clinic next week but I will call them today to make sure they can dispense Sub. If not, then I'll cancel the appointment and go see my Sub doc for more. I have about a weeks supply left. My Sub Dr. told me to stop the Sub and go to the pain clinic and stick with pain pills until my cancer treatment is over. I will do that only if they give me strong enough meds to do some good. 10mg Lortabs are nothing. All they do is keep me out of w/d. And if I can get a time relief something I won't/can't abuse it. Yes I know you can abuse it but I won't. It's different when you have a jar of 50 pretty blue pills staring at you.

My question is; just how long does one have to be off Sub for the lightweight stuff to work?(Hydro) My guess is two months minimum. Just a guess.

I am facing Radiation Therapy and have researched and found that there is a lot of pain. Normally, morphine, fentynal, or Oxy's are prescribed. Hopefully I won't need those because I am getting a low dose version. My pain was having the cancer surgically removed. Others take the full rads to shrink the tumors. So now I've paid my dues and the rest should be easier. We'll see very soon. I start in 5 weeks.

Bottom line. I was not able to put aside my addictive behavior for more than a week. The brain wants that warm fuzzy feeling and even taking 5 at a time, couldn't get it. Back on my beloved Sub. I do feel so much better on it and my addictive brain goes back into remission.

Rule

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:16 pm 
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Man Rule, you just keep surprising me at every turn. You have a really great attitude and your wife really seems to be a big support for you. You are blessed. I am so very sorry to hear that you have all this going on. You would think that in your circumstance the docs would give you adequate meds. I mean you are fighting cancer for got sakes. Isn't this what oxy is made for? Anyway, I know you do not want to be in active addiction again and it is great that you are now prefering the sub over the full agonist. Well on the bright side of things, at least subox kills cravings..... There is nothing worse than cravings. Is the Subox helping with your pain at all? I sure hope so. You are a tough guy..Really hope everything works out for you & your family Rule...You really deserve a break...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:32 pm 
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rule62 wrote:
No use trying to catch a buzz on pain meds if you're a Suboxone patient. I finally came to the conclusion that I feel so much better on my Sub than trying to catch a buzz on the Lortabs.

They may work for pain but I couldn't tell any difference. In order for pain meds to actually work for me I would need to be off the Sub for over a month or more. What ended up happening (again) was taking too many just so I could feel them. Then the guilt comes back and I give up right away and go back on my Sub. My wife said she can tell my personality difference when taking the Lortabs vs the Sub and is pleased that I'm back to my old self.

So here is my plan. Stay on Sub until I need more pain meds for whatever pain I'll be facing in the future. I do have an appt. with a Pain Clinic next week but I will call them today to make sure they can dispense Sub. If not, then I'll cancel the appointment and go see my Sub doc for more. I have about a weeks supply left. My Sub Dr. told me to stop the Sub and go to the pain clinic and stick with pain pills until my cancer treatment is over. I will do that only if they give me strong enough meds to do some good. 10mg Lortabs are nothing. All they do is keep me out of w/d. And if I can get a time relief something I won't/can't abuse it. Yes I know you can abuse it but I won't. It's different when you have a jar of 50 pretty blue pills staring at you.

My question is; just how long does one have to be off Sub for the lightweight stuff to work?(Hydro) My guess is two months minimum. Just a guess.

I am facing Radiation Therapy and have researched and found that there is a lot of pain. Normally, morphine, fentynal, or Oxy's are prescribed. Hopefully I won't need those because I am getting a low dose version. My pain was having the cancer surgically removed. Others take the full rads to shrink the tumors. So now I've paid my dues and the rest should be easier. We'll see very soon. I start in 5 weeks.

Bottom line. I was not able to put aside my addictive behavior for more than a week. The brain wants that warm fuzzy feeling and even taking 5 at a time, couldn't get it. Back on my beloved Sub. I do feel so much better on it and my addictive brain goes back into remission.

Rule







Rule,

I am so sorry you are having to go through this...and now the radiation. I would like to say that my mother had ca of the bladder and had radiation...and she had very little pain from it. Are you going to do chemo as well...to me, that is worse than radiation. The only big problem I had with my mom is we had to go everyday for the radiation for 6 weeks. shit!
That does get old.

Does the sub help your pain at all? If it does and this is the last part of your treatment, you might just want to stay on it.

I agree with you that we have to be off sub for a long time for the pain pills to work. If you are going to be in for some severe pain you might try getting off sub now and maybe the longer you take the pain pills the better they will work.

One reason I feel your pain meds did not work for you is because they gave you so damn little of it!! 5mg. hydro...are you kidding me....you need something way stronger than lortab!

I do hope it is not painful and you can just remain on sub. Please let us know what happens, what you will do. I am praying for you every night and I realize you have been through hell on this! Things just have to get better, and they will!

Hoping for you to get well soon!

Love,
Slipper


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:49 am 
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Rule - I'm of the mind that you need to do what it is that you see fit - whatever you decide is best for you. If that's staying on sub, then do it. If that's staying OFF sub thru your cancer treatment, then so be it. You are in a horrible position, one that no one ever imagines they will be in.

When it comes to cancer and chemo and radiation, everyone is different. Some people have a harder time with chemo, whereas others have more difficulty and pain from radiation. You just won't know until you go through it.

If there comes a time again when you decide to take full agonists, you might want to consider adding a small amount (1-2 mg) of suboxone to that. It's a legitimate way to treat acute pain in sub patients. It will keep you out of withdrawals and help the full agonists to treat some of your pain. Diary did this for a procedure and it worked out really well for her. Just something to keep in mind if the situation arises.

Hang in there, my friend. You're doing great. Have you ever thought about writing a book about your experiences? "Opiate addiction and cancer: Talk about a dual diagnosis!"

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:55 pm 
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You guys are giving me way too much credit for my recent behavior. Remember you are dealing with an addict first, a cancer patient last.

Sweet, you always have something nice to say. But yes, I still do have cravings even though I've brought my Sub dose up to 4mgs again. It will go down after a few days I suppose. Thanks for the kind words.

Slipper, yes, it is too low of dose for a Sub patient and my Dr. just won't give me anymore. They are the 10/500's so at least it's as strong as Hydro gets. Still should have had some morphine or anything equivalent.

Hat, you crack me up! Write a book? Even going through three times under the knife I still don't know the best way to stop pain. I read the paper that Dr. J put out suggesting the low dose Sub with full agonists. To tell the truth I don't agree with it. Because the Sub will continue to block out the other meds. His paper does say the patient will not feel the meds but should help with pain. Maybe that's my problem. If I don't feel them, they are not working. Does anyone really know if pain meds will work in conjunction with Suboxone? And if they do know, how did they do the survey? Is it just opinion or science based? All I know is I stopped Sub one day, took 20mgs of Hydro X's 4 a day and it did nothing. 8 days later I could feel some relief, albeit very minor relief. I'll have to talk to DOQ to get the 411 on how it worked.

Rule

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Rule - just because you don't have the answers doesn't mean the experiences you have to share aren't unbelievably valuable. You are balancing TWO deadly diagnoses at the same time! I'm sure you're not the only one to have to go through this. I'll bet there's never been one single book published by someone in your shoes. I'm quite serious about this. Think about it. If what you are going through could help another person, wouldn't you do it?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:15 pm 
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Rule - I passed a very stuck kidney stone when I was on 4mgs of Sub. At the ER I had a shot of dilaudid & toradol, which worked but wore of pretty quickly. They sent me home after another shot of dilaudid with a scrip for 5mg percosets.

The percs did nothing when I tried to take them without the Sub...in fact I was in withdrawals and in pain. So I added about 1mg of Suboxone to the mix and it worked like a charm. The 1mg was enough to cover some receptors but leave enough open so that the percoset could work. And yes, I felt the percoset when I took it with the Suboxone.

I think the trick is to have the supplemental Suboxone dose low enough relative to your regular daily Suboxone dose so that it leaves some receptors open. So if you're usually taking 4mgs, take 1mg or even .5mgs. If you're usually on like 1mg of Sub a day and that's what your body is used to, take like .25mgs of Sub.

I also had no problem stopping the pain meds once the stone passed and just upped my Sub dose back to 4mgs with no waiting and no problems.

For what it's worth, I also passed another stone about 1 year off Sub and a 5mg percoset about knocked me on my ass...so tolerance does eventually return to normal after Suboxone.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Rule - I passed a very stuck kidney stone when I was on 4mgs of Sub. At the ER I had a shot of dilaudid & toradol, which worked but wore of pretty quickly. They sent me home after another shot of dilaudid with a scrip for 5mg percosets.

The percs did nothing when I tried to take them without the Sub...in fact I was in withdrawals and in pain. So I added about 1mg of Suboxone to the mix and it worked like a charm. The 1mg was enough to cover some receptors but leave enough open so that the percoset could work. And yes, I felt the percoset when I took it with the Suboxone.

I think the trick is to have the supplemental Suboxone dose low enough relative to your regular daily Suboxone dose so that it leaves some receptors open. So if you're usually taking 4mgs, take 1mg or even .5mgs. If you're usually on like 1mg of Sub a day and that's what your body is used to, take like .25mgs of Sub.

I also had no problem stopping the pain meds once the stone passed and just upped my Sub dose back to 4mgs with no waiting and no problems.

For what it's worth, I also passed another stone about 1 year off Sub and a 5mg percoset about knocked me on my ass...so tolerance does eventually return to normal after Suboxone.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:56 pm 
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My vibes go to you with your cancer treatment my mom just has a year clean of cancer and had chemo and radiation. She in the end was and still is on 800mcg's of fentora and 4mg dilaudid that's not all 40mg opana. Now does she have pain yes, she has been in pm over 10+ years but it wasn't till the cancer till the heavy hitters I described above came in. I worry she will die because she doesn't take them the way she should and has no desire to lower her tolerance!(I don't get that?!?)

You have an awesome mind set when you need the chemicals they will be there and you will be comfortable it is your right as a cancer patient! Take what you need, keep an open dialogue and keep doing what your doing! All my best!!!
Namaste`

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