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Take Suboxone as I am, Talk to Doc and try a different med, or just go as my doc says?
Poll ended at Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:11 am
stay with suboxone and go with what the doc dose's me at and do not take advice from on here which my doctor told me to do 50%  50%  [ 1 ]
take a different med? (bup on its own or patch) 50%  50%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 2
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:11 am 
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I am seeing a doctor for pain management. I have arthritis in my spine L3, L4, and a couple other spots. I have the beginnings of degenerative disk syndrome. I was on 60mg of oxycodone a day for like 4 months or so, and then I decided to take myself off by going to an out-patient clinic and getting suboxone. That was months ago.

I have taken oxycodone 3 times since I was prescribed due to the pain.

This new doctor is giving me suboxone to help ease the pain and to take my mind off of thinking about the suboxone since I obsess over wanting a pill to make the pain go away. (Suboxone if a miracle drug for the mental aspect)

I am wondering how much sub you think I should be on? The dr. started me on 2mg twice a day. Is suboxone the right drug? Should I try just the buprenorphine or the buprenorphine patch?

I am going back to this doctor next week to discuss the dosing and see what he thinks.

2mgs twice a day does 100% help me mentally not want to touch a pill to fix my back pain. But the pain is still there for sure. Maybe a higher dose? Maybe a higher dose is not good?

I am trying to be on this for 6months to 1year with the help of my psychologist and psychiatrist to change the way I think.

Thanks for your help!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:01 am 
Welcome, and if you don't mind my asking, why did you stop the oxy? Not working, having to take more doses to relieve pain, interdose withdrawal symptoms? Suboxone is an opiate as well and generally used to detox patients from opiates, but at certain doses, helps with cravings and pain control. Some sites are even testing it to use, for depression!! It sounds like you were using it for pain as opposed to an addiction.

If that dose is helping with cravings, great! If it isn't doing anything for your pain, why don't you talk to the moderators, esp.
Hatmaker because she can advise you how to help control the pain.

Good luck to you Robin


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:52 am 
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I stopped because they were just wanting to take me off the meds, the drug testing was costing an insane amount of money every week (insurance was not helping with urine tests, they still arnt but atleast now i am paying like $25). Yeah i am now taking it for both pain and mental more so to help with pain instead of other opiates that are more addictive. and i have been on sub so i know what it was and felt like etc.

thank you.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:02 am 
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I also take sub for pain as well as addiction, as Fairrobin said. I've been on it since Dec 2008. The dose you're taking for your pain is a bit on the low side when it comes to dosing for pain. That said, it's pretty individualized and what works for my pain won't necessarily work for yours. But I will tell you how I dose. I take 8 mg in the morning every day and I usually dose another 8 mg in the afternoon. On really REALLY bad days I'll take an extra 4 mg (or more if need be), but on good days, I might only take 4 mg in the afternoon instead of that second 8 mg. So my dose on average ranges from 12-24 mg per day.

I've tried to reduce my dose and the lowest I can go is the 12 mg, and again, that only works on a "good" pain day. You are correct in dosing more than once per day though. Sub's pain properties only last on average 4-6 hours, not like the 37 hour half life when it comes to treating addiction. So you might even need to dose 3 times a day, depending on your pain levels.

You might need to experiment a bit with your dose to see what works for you best. Maybe try 4 mg twice a day to see if that helps first and go from there.

If you have more questions about using sub for pain, feel free to just ask (or PM me if you'd rather).

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:33 pm 
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i dont understand if the ceiling is around 4mgs... why would it be necessary to take more than 2-4mgs every 6-8hrs or so? And if your taking suboxone daily the amount in your system is way more...

If 2mg or 4mg or 8mg or 16mg of sub always equals 30-40mgs of methadone why dose more?

I mean its crazy how potent the stuff is it was used for pain at like .2 mg ampules when it first came out..

I understand the pain properties only last a few hrs... But once i hit the ceiling i find taking more does nothing..

I did an experiment.. taking 2mgs then 4mgs then 8mgs.. on different days..

The difference between 2 and 4mg was mild.. but the difference between 4mg and 8mg was nothing really

idk...


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 Post subject: thanks
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:58 pm 
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Thank you everyone for posting a response on here. It’s really helping me formulate some sort of questions to ask my doctor next week. He did tell me to go on a forum anyways. Like I said I have been on Sub before and just wonder what other options have worked for people with pain (arthritis/beginnings of degenerative disk syndrome/bulging disks) or pain in general.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:03 am 
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Just like cravings, when it comes to treating pain with sub, it's very individualized. This has to do with tolerance and addiction history, too. And the ceiling has nothing to do with the pain properties.

You said you took different doses and it felt no different - do you take it for pain or just for addiction? If you don't take it for pain, then you can't know what the "right" dosage does compared to too low a dose.

All I can do is compare it to finding the right dose to alleviate one's cravings. It's very individualized.

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 Post subject: Bup and pain
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:32 pm 
ZE-

Just a couple thoughts and questions along with how I personally dose for chronic pain. I am wondering if you do have a history of dependence/abuse of opioids or if you are taking Suboxone for pain control only? I take generic Subutex for chronic pain/addiction. I dose 8mg at 7am when I wake up and 4mg by 3-4pm. I occasionally but VERY RARELY dose another 4mg at around 9pm IF I REALLY need it; 99% of the time 12mg daily is perfect for me. Subutex is the ONLY medication I take. I was wondering if you have that addiction component as well as pain because it would seem to me that if it was pain alone you wouldn't really need the Naloxone component that Suboxone contains over all other Buprenorphine formulations; not that it is detracting from the medication in any way, it's simply not needed. Again, if it is pain alone, the transdermal Buprenorphine patch would be worth a try, I would think. If I didn't have the addiction component and was only using Buprenorphine for pain, I would certainly give the patch a try. Although, had I not stumbled onto Buprenorphine because I'm an addict, I would more than likely still be on high dose full-agonists, probably to my own detriment... Sometimes being an addict is pretty sweet...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:11 pm 
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I will post more later but if you have serious chronic pain and I mean pain levels that are never lower than a 7 than I would try methadone it has changed my life as in pain management and well addiction to boot. I was on suboxone for close to 6 years before I made the change and it never helped my pain and I was on doses like 32mg and 24mg so I don’t know how bad your pain is but 4mg might not be enough in opinion. I don’t know if you have any negative outlooks on methadone or a methadone clinic, I read you are going to a pain management DR but I also saw you say that your mental addiction is a problem as in wanting to take a pill every time your pain flares up. I too had that problem for 12 years even with suboxone and this is what I am getting at a methadone clinic really helped me with this because I get my dose once a day no if ands or buts I can’t take more later no matter how bad I want to because the clinic is closed one but two you have no choice you have to take your full dose at the clinic at least till you get take homes I know it is different in every state but NY is the earliest 90 days.

When I get more time I will read all the post but just a quick post hear to add my in sight.


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 Post subject: info.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:44 am 
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personally i am against methado just for the fact that it is pretty addictive. more so than suboxone. i am starting to get headaches for the time i started the subs. i was on subs coming off of the oxy from the pain clinic. i didnt have headaches then, my body was also in a diff state of mind and physic too. with that said i am considering a talk with my dr about maybe subtex pills. i am being treated for pain along addiction. i am not additcted to anything now and have not been for months other than subs. my thing is...if the dr can trust i will not abuse the subutex...maybe it will work better. why put naloxone in my body which is jsut another chemical...if i dont need it. as long as i have the bupe i will not want a oxy or even think about back pain...or as much cuz every day my pain is AT LEAST a 7

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Just wondering have you ever taken methadone? And if so with the right intentions, just trying to figure out why you would think it is more addictive. If you haven’t taken it than I could understand why you would think that but if taken properly with the right intentions it is no different than suboxone as in addictiveness I’ve taken both so I just have a different point of view on that is why I am asking that’s all no ill thought intended. As of nalaxone you aren’t taken it even if you are on suboxone it cannot be sublingually absorbed like bup so you don’t have to worry about taken another chemical. Subutext can be hard to get from some DR because it has a higher abuse rate but you should be fine if you are at a pain management clinic I would think over a private DR.


Please keep us update man!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:15 pm 
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I have never taken methadone. I have just heard the horror stories. The negative reviews compared
To suboxone trump it. From what I have read the addiction and comming off of methadone is much harder than
That of suboxone. A friend of mine has taken suboxone and methadone before and he has warned me not to try taking methadone.
I really am considering talking to my doctor about switching the dose or maybe trying subutex pills since the patch is new. And I don't
Want to be a guinea pig (just my feeling). Ever since I've been on the sub (since this past wednesday) I have had a headache until today when I started hydrating myself more. I told a friend and he said suboxone really can dehydrate you so before I took my first dose this am I drank
A bottle of water, took my 2mg, then drank another bottle a few hours later. It is not 9pm and I just took my second dose of the day of 2mg (so 4mg total in my day). That is what the dr. Has me on right now. It fully has fixed the "want" the me obsessing and worrying if I don't get a pain med my back will kill even more. But my back is still hurting and has been all day.

The day I went to the dr. And he perscribed me the suboxone, he asked me what I've taken to help my pain and my back and I said 2mg. So that's how he started dosing me at 2mg twice a day. Now I just need to figure out how to word it to my doctor and to maybe try and switch the meds since my heads been hurting, my sex drive has decreased a little. If he says its the patch or suboxone and that's it. I will stick with the subs. I would much raher feel how I do now than how I did before with my back and mind killing me.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:47 pm 
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Yea that is the only reason I asked because I figured you just heard and read the horror stories of methadone. I myself bought into all those rumors too man so I understand where you are coming from, I just couldn’t live with the pain any more after 5 years of suboxone maintenance. So that is why I said the hell with what I read and heard I wanted to find out for myself what methadone is about. And now that I have been on it for almost 5 months they aren’t true none of them are the only one I can’t tell you if it is true or not is if getting off methadone is worst I don’t see how anything could be worse than what I went through with getting off suboxone but I also heard it is harder to get of off but I have also heard if done properly with a good DR it can be done rather easily. I have also talked with other patients at my clinic who were once at 250mg and now are down to 20mg and only dose every other day so I don’t know. Yea man I know what you mean about the whole guinea pig thing now that I look back at it when I first started suboxone I was a lab rat I still feel there are more test that need to be done with suboxone but I am sure it is much more advanced than it was 5 years ago or I would pray to God that is the case even at the end of my suboxone use I felt like a guinea pig from time to time after going through side effects that were almost life ruining at times for myself. As of subutext I don’t know what to tell you I have read on this forum lots of people are on it but I also have read lots of people being told no by DRs wanting to make this change. Every DR I talked to about subutext all said the same thing the only time they will prescribe it is for pregnant women than after birth right back to subs.

You seem to have a good outlook on things so that is def a great thing and all I can tell you is be honest with your DR and what happens happens.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Hey ze8a59,

You could try spitting out your saliva after you take your Suboxone. The Naloxone in Suboxone is absorbed much better through the stomach than it is your mucous membranes in your mouth. Several people on the forum have experienced the headache thing when first getting on Suboxone and after they started spitting their saliva, their headaches went away. Just something you could try.

4mg/day is a very low dose for pain control. As far as I'm aware, most people taking Suboxone for pain take upwards of 16mg/day and they dose several times per day because when Suboxone is used for pain control, it's only effective for up to 6 hours.

Hopefully someone with some experience using Suboxone for pain control will drop by and give you their thoughts.

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 Post subject: thank you
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:21 pm 
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I thank you all so much. I just need to say something to my doc in regards to me being on a low dose for pain, the headaches, etc. I mean I might want a med switch but I got my dad on my team here so if he hears the word increase he might be like whoa whoa whoa but its the doc me and my psych and psychiatrists working at this problem. More mental now and physical to (physical I mean I'm in back pain) not like I'm dope sick

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:05 am 
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I agree that you can try spitting after your sub dissolves instead of swallowing - that could all but take away those headaches. Because like everyone has said, if your doctor has her/his mind set on not giving you subutex, then almost anything you say likely won't change their mind.

I also agree that more likely than not, you need more than 2 mg, twice per day to get better pain relief. I usually take 8 mg twice a day (on average) to treat my chronic pain. Sometimes as low as 12 and on a really bad day, as high as 24 mg. I'll dose either 2 or 3 times a day, again depending on bad my pain is that day.

Raising your dose with suboxone is nothing like raising your dose of a full agonist ("regular" pain med). You won't get more "effect" from raising it, you'll only really get better pain control.

i hope you can get your doctor to listen to you and your individual needs. Hang in there.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:43 am 
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I also take 16mg a day and use sub for pain control. I know it can be frustrating in the beginning trying to find the correct dose but you will. I also suffered from headaches the 1st month on sub, but they slowly decreased and are now completely gone. I think for me anyway it just took time for my body to adjust to the sub. I also had nausea and could hardly eat, but that is also gone. I just wanted to share my experience, and don't worry you'll get this thing figured out!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Man just for the hell of it you should ask how your Dr feels about methadone for pain management. I know how you feel and I understand but I think you could do great with just a 10mg dose of methadone each day. Whatever you choose I support but I just don’t want to see anyone in pain and if you don’t plan on doing a substantial increase I am afraid you will continue to have at least a 7 on the pain scale like you said your are at most days now. And i see you talking alot about mental addiction i read you see DRs for that but do any of them specialize in drug abuse or just mental health because if they do not you would def get some real good help from a drug counselor.


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:32 pm 
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i have a addiction specialist, a psychologist, and psychiatrist. the specialist gives me the suboxone

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 Post subject: Update
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:53 pm 
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I just wanted to let people know an update on myself. I had my appointment this morning. My doctor upped my doage of suboxone to 2mg 3x a day. For the first week I was taking 2mg 2x a day. He understands I am in pain, and I told him about the headaches. He said see how this works and we will talk next time about the bupe patch or mayb bupe pills because i just dont trust a new on the market patch not to mention I tend to sweat a lot...A LOT lol

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