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 Post subject: Over a Year OFF
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Well I had planned on posting a big "one year anniversary post" but it came and went! I totally forgot.

So it's been a year and...2 weeks or so. Couldn't be healthier or happier. I gave up coffe about 3 months ago and I crave that sometimes:) Never opiates though. Not much else to add other than it's worth it to get off and stay off!


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 Post subject: Fantastic
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:49 pm 
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hawker1,

That is such awesome news. So glad you remembered to come back and share that information with us. You know how much a success story means to us because you've been there.

Care to update us all about how you did it?

Congratulations!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Hey Rule,

I was on PK's for about 5 years and on Sub for almost 2. The key for me was using Sub as a tool to distance myself from all of the behaviors of painkiller user first and foremost. It takes the brain a long time to change.

I tapered very slowly once I got down under 2 mgs. I got down to 2 mgs pretty quick then took a looooong time tapering from there. I wasn't on a strict schedule or taper plan. I just took as little as possible each day while still feeling good enough to live my life. I never liked being on sub. I was living my life but never felt totally good or normal. So I never kept my eye off the goal of being totally clean.

So I tapered way down to basically crumbs, got myself in a very stable place in life (work was going good, girlfriend was good, etc.), picked a week and made the jump. I was fotrunate to make the jump while on vacation in hawaii so that helped but I also just think a week where the weather is nice and you have outside stuff to do would be good.

The first 9 days were good...a tad bit of anxiety at times, RLS, feeling down a bit, but not bad at all. Then I had some PAWS for a month or two but NEVER anythign I coulnd't handle. I was on a 4th of july camping tirp a few weeks after I jumped and that probably wasn't hte best idea....having to be around people 24/7, nowhere to hide, no control, etc.

Honestly, taper down slowly, get down to where you're barely on anything, get your mind right, pick a good week and jump. BTW, I have done no counseling. I am sure it would help and I'm not against counseling...it just wasn't for me and I'm doing fine.

Let me know if you have any other questions!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:31 pm 
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Hawker, thanks so much for letting us in on that big accomplishment!! I'm so happy for you!!

I'm curious just exactly how far you think you tapered before jumping and how long would you say it took you to get from, say 1 mg to jumping? Of course, there's self interest behind those questions. :D Pretty much, my way of handling this taper thing is very much like yours. I tapered quickly to 2 mg and it got tough, so I slowed waaaaay down. I've been kinda surprised at just how many tricks (symptoms) my body has thrown at me, even with a slow and gradual taper. For example, I have high blood pressure for the first time in my life. Stuff like that....So, now I'm at .5 and it's been nearly two weeks here but I just don't feel ready to drop again yet. Some people are able to go really fast and I just cannot do it. Maybe it's because I've been on Sub for 5 years 9 months or so. Maybe it's also because I just don't want to feel like serious hell for weeks on end. This is pretty hard to do, IMO. So, I sincerely appreciate the significance of you completing your taper AND staying off for a whole year. We hear over and over how dismal the success rate is, so when someone like you comes and posts about making it off and staying clean and being happy, I appreciate you taking your time to come back and show everyone that it is indeed possible.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:15 am 
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Hey Hawker,

Happy belated Anniversary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU DA MAN!!!

Congratulations, the one year milestone is a biggee! I'm REALLY proud of ya bud!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:05 pm 
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Woooo Hooooo!!!! Here's your cake:

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Thanks Romea...thanks for the cake Diary!

Laddertipper, good questions. I definately was one of those that could feel every little decrease once I got down under 2 mgs. Once you are on a small amount you really feel the small decreases more acutely.

I honestly took so long from 1 mg to the jump point. Like 8 months probably. Maybe 10. So you're at .5... God you're so close! But don't rush it from here. I literally got down to taking a crumb each day. Like .05 maybe. Sub is powerful stuff. Your body can detect the slightest amount. I definately started taking it every other day at the end. I can't remember when I started that or how long. You won't love it at first but I think that's the next step for you is skilpping days. I'm no doctor but I think it helps your brain and body cope with not having anything for a day then you bail yourself out by taking it the next day. Kind of like taking the W/Ds in very small sections. I then went to every third day and I just go to a point where I was taking a crumb every 3 days or so and knew i was ready to get off.

Hope that helps some. I should have documented what I did a little better but just keep listening to your body and mind and don't rush it and you'll get there!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:27 am 
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hawker1 wrote:
Thanks Romea...thanks for the cake Diary!

Laddertipper, good questions. I definately was one of those that could feel every little decrease once I got down under 2 mgs. Once you are on a small amount you really feel the small decreases more acutely.

I honestly took so long from 1 mg to the jump point. Like 8 months probably. Maybe 10. So you're at .5... God you're so close! But don't rush it from here. I literally got down to taking a crumb each day. Like .05 maybe. Sub is powerful stuff. Your body can detect the slightest amount. I definately started taking it every other day at the end. I can't remember when I started that or how long. You won't love it at first but I think that's the next step for you is skilpping days. I'm no doctor but I think it helps your brain and body cope with not having anything for a day then you bail yourself out by taking it the next day. Kind of like taking the W/Ds in very small sections. I then went to every third day and I just go to a point where I was taking a crumb every 3 days or so and knew i was ready to get off.

Hope that helps some. I should have documented what I did a little better but just keep listening to your body and mind and don't rush it and you'll get there!


Okay, well I feel much better hearing that it took you that long to go from 1 mg to nothing. I've been feeling like it's simply taking me too long, but it's so damn hard for me! It's not a mental thing either. I wish it was. Yesterday, I skipped my night dose, because I didn't feel like I needed it, and I've done this before to cushion my drops. That made my total for yesterday .375 instead of .5. So, as I expected, I woke up sometime early morning and was so sick that I went from asleep to awake and sitting up and gagging in a split second. I was so confused too, because it took me a couple minutes to understand why I felt so awful. I was shaking too and so anxious....ugh. I got my skipped dose and tried to sleep. Didn't go well. I was getting cocky and thinking I could do a 'big' drop, and it just bit me hard. Back in the day, I took 32 mg everyday. I start thinking that I really am almost there, but Sub IS so STRONG!!! It's a little discouraging to get this ill from such a small change, when my daily dose was 64 times as much at my highest. Some people cruise right through this, make big drops and are okay. Why can't I be like that? I'm not going to give up though. I'll just go back to .5 today and try .375 in another couple days or so. Still feel icky though....sick to my stomach and a headache. I am having trouble cutting these films small enough. I can cut them into 32 pieces, but then I look at the pieces and realize they are not exactly accurate. :D Can some smart person on here invent a film cutter?! PLEASE!!!!!

Hawker, the idea of skipping a whole day's dose sounds so impossible to me. I guess I'll get there someday. :D I wanna be where you're at!!!

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Smaller Dose
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:47 am 
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LT,

What would be perfect is for the Sub company make smaller strength strips. 2mg's seems low, but we all know now just how strong the drug really is. What if they made a .50 film the same size as the 2 and 8mg? Then we could taper oh so perfectly.

I surely don't envy you because you know I will start to work down in a few weeks/months. Ended up back on 4mgs because of the move. Too much stress, this is not the time for tapering. Once I'm settled, then I will taper. Going from 4 to 3 is nothing. Below that, Houston, we have a problem.

We are going to have to throw you a big ole' party once you successfully jump! You've been suffering with this for way too long.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:47 am 
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Ladder - On another Stopping Sub thread, DOQ wrote a reply about how she made really, REALLY low drops. I'm sorry I can't recall which thread it was, but it's a recent one. I thought of you when i read it....you should hunt it down. I think it might help you out. Good luck.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:15 pm 
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about feeling down, fogy, emotions,and so on. when i was 14 years old. i did some crazy things.i can remember the last one.
this is nuts""! i was sniffing gasoline, with other idiot kids. i fell to the ground, and had very bad hallucinations, and passed out.
did this 3 or 4 times. later i woke up one morning and felt like 20% of life was sucked out of me.i felt very fogy kinda motionless. i still feel the same today. so i guess that part of suboxone does'nt bother me that much. couse i really can't tell the difference. would anyone be interested in putting up a new (Sub physic unit post)? :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Just playing devil's advocate... Is it worth it to feel crappy, headachy and nauseous, every time you make a drop under 1mg or so? If you add it all up, how many days do you have to go through being sick? Is it more than if you just stopped and felt like sh*t for 10 days or so? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just seeing a lot of people go through a long, drawn out ordeal, and it worries me.
I'm now officially tapering with my doctor's approval. I've gone from 12 to 6mg and hope to go down to 4 this coming week. My doc, who knows a lot about Sub, actually said, "you may not be able to go off completely". He's worked with a lot of people, and some get down to 1mg and can't get any lower. How f'd up is that?

Good for you, hawker, showing us that it CAN be done!

Wishing us all luck,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Hi Lillyval,

I think that's a valid point you bring up. I guess my response is that if someone is feeling pretty bad after such small drops they might feel REALLY bad for a REALLY long time if they jumped too fast. I feel like the people that jump at 1 mg and say they are fine after a week must not have been on sub for as long or werne't on their DOC for as long.

For me it wasn't so much that tapering way down was the "easiest" or "most comfortable. I feel like it gave me the highest chance for success and long term success. We all jumpe from our DOC at some point and went through terrible WDs and ended up back on drugs. So it is more of a matter of going through the process of lowering your dose, adjusting, and REALLY being ready to be off. Don't know if that makes sense but that was my thought process and it worked for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Ladder...i don't think it was a mental thing for me either. Some days I coulnd't go any lower. Some days I could. There wasn't really any rhyme or reason to it. I know how you feel. And again the lower you get the more your body feels the drops.

HOWEVER, when you get down to crumbs/dust it's less noticable and will be so much easier. You're probably in teh toughest part of the reduction phase. Don't stress about it. Take your time. Even if it takes 6-12 months. Don't worry about it. Go slow and get your mind right....


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:25 pm 
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I agree that it seems irrational to draw this out and I start to think I need to jump. In fact, last night that's what I was thinking....that I'd skip my Sub, go to bed, and maybe just not take anymore at all. How much worse could it really get anyway? I used to take 32 mg and now I only take .5 mg, so the w/d just can't be that bad, right?

Except it can get much, much, much, much worse. I swear to you guys, and maybe it's just me, especially since I've been taking Sub since '05, but I've never felt so horrible in my life and I just can't do it. Last night was terrifying. Waking up and instantly gagging and so shaky I had a tough time getting to my bathroom. Everything seems to go nuts all at the same time. The blood was pounding in my ears and it sounded like a drum. Actually, I thought it was some weird nightmare or something, because it all jolted me so quickly and I had no clue what was going on for a few minutes. You know what else? I've never injected anything and I hate needles, but I was thinking to myself that I needed something NOW NOW NOW, and it was going to take a good half hour for the Sub to take the edge off. It seemed like what I needed was a needle or other method of rapid delivery. I just wanted to get out of that feeling and I was absolutely panicking, like being in a burning box or something. Since it's fresh in my mind, I can tell you with certainty that I'm not a strong enough person to jump off Sub at .5, and I'd rather take it until the day I die than do that and face that feeling again. Hawker, it seems like you get it. For someone who feels between a little and moderately crappy from a small drop, there's a lot more room to feel even crappier. And I guess because I'm on a fairly 'low' dose, it doesn't take long to get to feeling pretty horrible. When I jumped off 3 mg for a week in '07, I never got to the point I was at last night. However, I was getting close! It was getting worse everyday, which I do remember. I was still able to eat lots and I was reading books and my blood pressure wasn't bad. At this point, the nasty stuff starts quickly and it gets much worse than anything I've ever been through, so right now, I'm too chicken and too weak to jump off. Whatever that makes me, it makes me, and really I just don't care. I'm willing to feel like medium crap, but I will not super size it. No flippin' way!!

Hat, I will look up that thread. Thanks!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:27 pm 
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To Hawker-- awesome for you. I am 75 days right now. I am happy to be off, but I miss the energy that I used to have. How long will that last? Or did you even experience this? Any insight would be great!

To Laddertipper- I am so proud of you! You are doing great. When you decide to jump, I did it at I think about . 25 or somewhere in there. Get clonidine. It will help with the wds. Especially if you have high blood pressure. I slept for 2-3 days off and on. Getting through that wasn't so bad. I did a lot of research regarding how to best manage the wd symptoms. vitamins are also helpful IMO. Maybe set a goal for yourself, at least that is what I did and I was able to stick with it. I had that horrid experience with my surgery, so that also stuck in my mind. Whatever works for you is best! I wish you lots of luck and take things one day at a time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Thanks Sher,

The low energy is definately a lingering sympton. I had that and a tiny bit of anxiety for about 3 months or so. I feel like for about 3 months I noticed little tihngs here and there. Then at some point i was totally normal. And I mean back to before I ever took pills. I haven't been totally clean since like 2004 or 2005 but I feel like I did before I started now. Again, the low energy was the longest lingering sympton and I never found anything to combat it other than vitamins, excersize and healthy eating which helps a little.

Ladder....sounds like you need to give yourself some more time at .5 then just cut down a teeny bit when you're ready to. Easier said than done I know..but take your time and take what you need to feel good so you don't start htinking about needles again anytime soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:02 am 
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Ty Hawker! I was beginning to think, this is why I crave opiates. I hope you are right, I am not too far from 3 months. 2 more weeks. I just started Wellbutrin to try and quit smoking. I feel a bit more energy, not sleeping all the time. But I am not even close to feeling as happy or motivated. So you think that 3 months is a good turning point?!

Hoping you are right :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:27 am 
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I hear you loud and clear, ladder, that experience sounds terrifying and I dread going through something like that. After I posted yesterday I checked into the patches - Buprenex. The lowest one gives a dose of about 0.5mg/day. I'm wondering if you could cut it in half for a dose of 0.25mg. The benefit would be that it's a steady, accurate dose AND no daily Dosing. So that habit could be broken while still having bupe in your system.
Has anyone done this? Or is there some prohibition against Sub docs prescribing it? (I wouldn't be surprised).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:36 am 
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Lilly - Butrans is the patch (Buprenex is the injectable version I believe) that's meant for chronic pain, but it was discussed that it could be used for tapering. I think Dr. J mentioned it could be used for that purpose. I'm not sure that a sub doctor needs to prescribe it though since it's meant for pain, but I'm not 100% sure of that. It might be worth discussing with your doctor though. I think it's a good idea, especially since it will help get you out of the habit of dosing, too.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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