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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
If this were a weaker class medication such as Vicodin, or perhaps Oxy's then saturating the receptors with lots of subs to hopefully kick those drugs off might be the way to go. But we're dealing with Methadone here, and it has a very long half life just as the subs do. It sticks on those receptors and doesn't want to let go easily!


If this were a weaker class of medication a) we probably wouldn't even have the need for this thread in the first place and b) taking a high amount of sub would make them sick. Lastly, PW is the very symptom of having methadone kicked off the receptors. Suboxone sticks better than methadone. It's just not as strong.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:38 pm 
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tinydancer wrote:
If this were a weaker class of medication a) we probably wouldn't even have the need for this thread in the first place and b) taking a high amount of sub would make them sick. Lastly, PW is the very symptom of having methadone kicked off the receptors. Suboxone sticks better than methadone. It's just not as strong.


The use of the term "weaker class of medication" was for example purposes only. And taking a high amount of sub to saturate receptors can also make a person sick with too much sub in the system afterwards. I understand the entire process very well.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Like horse gal, I'm hesitant to comment regarding methadone since it's just a whole different animal. However, I have been through PW. Mercifully, it's a short amount of time. If you're posting, you're probably over the worst of it.keep us updated.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:38 am 
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Hi Guys,

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has helped so far. I actually took 24mg in total before I received any replies. Obviously, that was a mistake as I got a whole lot worse after. That was about 30 hrs ago now and I haven't taken anything since, nor any Methadone for that matter.

I am not feeling too bad right now. Been sleeping a lot and I feel really weak and kinda like I've been poisoned. I think the headache is the biggest complaint.

I'm going to see how I get on today as to what I should do next. My understanding is that I would have stripped all the Methadone off of my receptors by now and the reason I'm not feeling too bad now is that the Bupe is giving me some relief? To that end, would it be wise to keep dosing up. Sorry If you've already advised for or against this, my head is so fuzzy I'm not sure what I've read to be honest.

Thankyou guys again!!

Steven

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:12 am 
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Hey Mozza,

Since you were able to stick it out, I would imagine that the best course of action from here would be to continue the suboxone. You already went through all the PW...now you just need to get regulated on the subs. Do you have a big enough stash to keep you comfortable until you go back to the doctor?

I'm sure someone else will come along with better advice for you soon. I'm glad you gave us an update, I was worried about you.

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:58 am 
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Mozza wrote:
Hi Guys,

I actually took 24mg in total before I received any replies. Obviously, that was a mistake as I got a whole lot worse after. That was about 30 hrs ago now and I haven't taken anything since, nor any Methadone for that matter.
Thankyou guys again!!

Steven



Hey Steven,

Glad you made it through the worst of it. Seeing as you have already taken that 24mg of sub it would make no sense at this point to not take more. Can't go back and re-do it now. Sorry you got so sick taking that 24mg, but I agree with QHorsegal that you need to take more sub today and hopefully that will pull you out of it, or at least get you feeling a bit better. How much sub is the question as 24+mg in a short period of time is quite a bit?

It's been over 30 hours as you said since you have taken any sub, so at least some of it has dissapated from your system. It's extremely difficult to figure out exctly how much has left and how much remains. The half life is long, so most of it I'm sure is still with you.

If it were me in this situation, and at this particular point in the overall process, I would try taking 4-8mg of additional sub and give it an hour or so and see how you feel. It certainly can't hurt at this point.

Your probably tired and sleeping alot due to the amount of sub you have taken. You were still in methadone detox and the sub was covering it up a bit. So you had a couple of different things going on at the same time. The methadone was trying to leave the system, and the sub was trying to take over so that puts a lot of strain on your system and can make you very tired.

It's also ok to take something non-narcotic for the headache. It should pass on it's on after you get yourself more stable, hopefully today!

So I'm with Q and suggest you take between 4-8mg more sub and give it an hour as I suggested. That should give you an idea of how that will work for you. It's entirely possible at this point it may take more, but I personally feel it's better to try less than more right now anyway.

That's our suggestion Steven and I sure hope you feel better soon. It's no fun being in those PW's as I personally know quite well. But once you begin to stabilize it will be so worth it I promise. Hang in there my friend and lets see if we can get you feeling better.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:05 am 
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Hi Guys,

I'm taking another 4mg now. I'll check in again around an hour.

Thanks so much for being here for me. It means a huge amount.

Steven x

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:07 am 
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Steven,

Just keep track of how much sub you take today (in this next 24-hour time period) as you are in a different time zone than the US. I believe you are about 5-6 hours ahead of most of us time wise, so just keep track of the total amount taken in the next 24 hours so we have a place to begin to get you on a steady dose each day.
Thanks,
Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Hey Steven how are you doing since taking that 4mg dose? Can you please pdate us and let us know how your feeling?
Thanks,
Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:31 am 
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Hi Karen and all,

I went back into PW's! Been throwing up for 3 days straight now and feeling pretty weak. I think I'm going to throw the towel in and go back on my Methadone.

thanks again for your help and it's odd this didn't work out.

Steven

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:39 am 
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WHAT????

Well, I sure wouldn't have expected that! Can you call your doctor and ask them what might be going on? Maybe there is something else that is causing you to have trouble...I sure wouldn't have thought that next dose would precipitate withdrawals again!

I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble Mozza! This methadone is a tricky thing huh?

Stay strong, let us know how you are doing either way ok?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:26 am 
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Mozza wrote:
Hi Karen and all,

I went back into PW's! Been throwing up for 3 days straight now and feeling pretty weak. I think I'm going to throw the towel in and go back on my Methadone.

thanks again for your help and it's odd this didn't work out.

Steven



I am literally shocked to hear you say this Steven! There is no way you should have again went into PW's. Could it possibly been a continuation of the previous PW's and they just flared up again? Possibly, and that makes more sense to me that another bout of them starting. I'm so sorry to hear that kind of news.

I agree with QHorse and maybe you should contact your doctor to see if there is another issue that could be causing the problem.

I guess if you decide to go back to the methadone that's your decision to make. I would just suggest as Tiny did earlier and begin on a lower dose than the 80mgs from before. Then perhaps you could taper that down to 30mg or below and begin the switch again at that point. I guess that's another option for you Steven?

Please let us know how your doing. I was positive you would be on your way to feeling good. This news is quite unsettling and I'm sure it is for you also. Hang in there ok. Do what you have to do, but maybe let the doctor give you a look over and see if something else is happening.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:57 am 
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Aw Mozza,

I'm sorry. You're certainly having a rough time with this transition. I don't think it's still PW, but I believe your system is just shocked right now and really sensitive. I remember after after I got onto Suboxone, and through PWs (mine only lasted the first day), the days following were still hell. I was weak, constantly nauseous, and just overall felt like I had been through a war. But I did not continue to throw up, I do remember thinking I would, but it never happened again after the first day. Can you talk to your doctor or pharmacy about getting some Phenergan? I think once you start to hold food down, you'll start feeling better.

I know it seems like it'll never get better but it does, much better. Tons of people have been through what you're going through and it slowly gets better. I understand the desire to go back to methadone at this point but it's like getting more than half way thru a tunnel and turning back. I hope you can try to stick it out a little longer and talk to a doct about the nausea.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Hi Guys,

I've gone back to taking 50ml of methadone. I hope you guys don't think I've thrown all your good advice back in your face but I was seriously starting to worry about how dehydrated I was getting.

I find it strange as yesterday there was a slight feeling of improvement and then 3/4 hours after my next Sub and I was bang in trouble again!

I still haven't eaten yet but importantly, I'm keeping fluids down.

I know I will crack this switch eventually but I have genuinely run out of time on this occasion. I move home in a couple of days so I had to make the tough decision of going back to the Methadone.

I'm not sure there is/was any underlying issue other than me forcing a switch from a too high a dose. If there is a lesson to be learned and shared is that you ABSOLUTELY have to get down to under the 30ml of Methadone before inducing.

I want to say a big thanks to everyone who has taken the time to guide me through this drama. I will do this eventually and I look forward to the day I can share a successful switch.

lots of heartfelt gratitude!

Steven x

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:19 pm 
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You have to do what's right for you, we all get it. What dose did you get down to, btw? I transferred over at 15mgs but had only been at that dose for a handful of days.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:31 pm 
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Hi Tiny,

I was at 50ml for 3 days and then stopped for 76 hours before inducing. I'm back at 50ml now and will get myself down to as low as possible and would consider going as low as you. I'm so scared to have a repeat of this that I will now do everything correctly.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Well begin eating something once you get to feeling better. Work on tapering that methadone dose down so you have the choice to make the switch to subs and are in a better position to do so. If you can get it down to 15mg that would be great!

Take it easy and give your system time to rebound. Reduce as you see fit and let us know when your ready to try again. I want to see you do this Steven! I know you can. You have a great attitude and that's a huge part to this!

Good luck and keep us informed how your doing along the way please. Look forward to talking again soon.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:41 pm 
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Ahh.. that explains so much. I was thought that you went back on it to taper down and were trying again, from a much lower dose. Well, 3rd time is the charm, right? I'm sure you've learned a few things from these two trials. Hopefully the next time will be the final time.

Are you sure you even need 50mgs of methadone? It seems to stay in your system longer than most and you complained of being over medicated before, on your dose of 80.. What was going on when you were at 40 that made you jump up so much higher?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:48 pm 
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I live in hope that 3rd time will be lucky!

I went up to 80ml about 6 months ago as I had a massive relapse and I could only get relief from a higher dose of Methadone.

So now I'm back down to 50ml. I'm still feeling ropey but I guess that's to be expected? Once I'm stable again I will then begin my slow but consistent taper. I'm thinking of dropping 5ml/mg every two weeks until I get to 15ml/mg. What do you guys think, is that enough time to get accustomed to each drop?

I've managed to eat something now and that's the first time since Saturday so hooray for that.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Steven,

Just reduce as you would if you were reducing on subs, take it slow and easy and reduce only when you are stable on each dose and ready to do so. No since rushing anything now and your plan sounds ok to me.

We'll see what Tiny thinks of that as it's always a good thing to have everyone on the same page in my opinion. She may think you could reduce quicker or by a greater dose, but we'll wait and she if she has a suggestion on that. She may also suggest a slower reduction so lets see what she thinks. Others may have their own suggestions too!

So happy your eating as I suggested earlier. That alone should make you begin to feel much better.

Thanks for keeping us updated Steven. Makes a huge difference when we know how your doing at all times!

Karen xoxo


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