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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:34 am 
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This is an issue that gets mentioned here from time to time. It seems like it affects a lot of people, male and female. But I'm interested in knowing exactly how many people have suffered endocrine / hormone issues as a result of their sub treatment?

Here are some of the symptoms (cut and pasted):

- Anaemia
- Decreased libido
- Decreased muscle mass
- Depression
- Fatigue
- Menstrual irregularities
- Osteoporosis
- Vasomotor instability (aka body temperature issues)
- Weight gain

I know there are a number of people on this forum who have found they need testosterone supplementation, some guys who are even really too young to suffer low T from natural causes. So I'm interested in why less hasn't been done to raise awareness of this problem which is caused by long term opioid use including Sub and methadone.

For me it's been something that's gradually gotten worse over time while maintaining on my normal dose of 12mg of Suboxone a day. Mind you I haven't had my T levels checked, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're low at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:30 am 
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I dont really know much on this topic, but it kinda scares me....maybe thats why i dont really bother doing research on it.

personally i dont really have many of the side-effects that were mentioned other than maybe sometimes fatigue and depression at times. Also maybe the anemia thing..i get dark circles under my eyes, (idk if thats a symptom of anemia?) but maybe its because im fair-skined, and sometimes i get really dizzy when i stand up too quick.

does anyone know if the issues mentioned are permenant or if they can be reversed when opoid use is discontinued? Or maybe you can do something to combat these issues.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:50 am 
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The only symptom I suffer from is menstrual irregularity.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:07 pm 
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It happens to everyone who goes on it???

It's not happening to me.

That's a pretty big statement to make. To say that a side effect affects 100% of the population of sub users.

Please let me know how you came to that conclusion.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:13 pm 
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I suffer from quite a few of these symptoms. Been meaning to have my levels checked, but I'm kinda scared. I also suffered from them when I was on oxy, so I know it's not just the sub. It would be nice if this subject was researched more. Then maybe our sub doctors could offer some advice on how to treat these problems...or at least find a way to minimize them.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:13 pm 
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SqueakyCleanKS wrote:
It happens to everyone who goes on it???

It's not happening to me.

That's a pretty big statement to make. To say that a side effect affects 100% of the population of sub users.

Please let me know how you came to that conclusion.


I just re-read the thread and I don't know who said this.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:48 am 
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TeeJay wrote:

I just re-read the thread and I don't know who said this.


Maybe this was interpreted wrong:

Quote:
This is an issue that gets mentioned here from time to time. It seems like it affects a lot of people, male and female.


I suffer from asshole'ism...but on a serious note, and I hate to get this personal...but for the sake of discussing long-term effect, I'll list my supposed 'side effects'. I put it in single quotations because I really can't say it's totally suboxone's fault..could just be age, or other factors.

The main one is...well, look at what time it is. It's 1:35am, and I'm up. Can I attribute this totally to Suboxone? No...I really can't....I don't do much during the day to get me tired, except chasing my daughter. When you sit home all the time, and don't do much to get tired, how are you supposed to sleep the whole night...so I can't say suboxone is totally to blame. Is it a factor -- well, I think so. But I can't be positive on that.

And coming up next is things that go on behind closed doors with the wife...
It's not that I don't wanna do it...I'm totally "up" for it. And she has no complaints, because I manage to keep things going long enough to uh....her uhm...womanly things happen a couple times. But, when she gets done...I have been known to just say "fuck it" -- pun intended -- and quit. This normally doesn't happen if we go longer than a week between...but if it's 2-3 times in a week, chances are that one of those times, I'm going to just not ...uh..keep going and going and going...
It's not that I lose interest...I would love to ...uh, last until CUMpletion....but certain parts will give up before I do.
Do I think suboxone plays a part...why yes..yes I do. I sure don't want to think that I'm 34 years old, and I wore it out while I was high on pills (because God knows when I was eating pills, I was like a rabbit....and back then, she would be begging me to hurry the hell up and get "off" of her....or just get off period...)
I'm actually considering talking to the doctor about it..the only thing is, the doctor I see now is an older female (55+) and that's not a subject I wanna take on with a female doctor, no matter the level of professionalism. So I've kept quiet on the subject.

Those are really the only things I can say affect my life with Suboxone. Far as my mood, attitude, temper, emotional state, etc....all seem fine. I actually don't know why some people say Suboxone causes some emotional masking, because I feel a bit weird when I hear certain songs, like the one that really reminds me of my daughter being born last year, and what we went through with her in NICU...I still will have a tear when the song plays..and I look at her, and what we dealt with...and knowing she is my last "baby" until grandkids...

And during the NICU period last year, I really was an emotional wreck. I cried like a baby because we had to leave her in the hospital and come home that first night..I remember driving home from Birmingham in that 5pm traffic, and thought I'd have to pull over because the tears I was fighting back just weren't staying away...and I cried most of the way home...obviously, we were scared, and my wife cried too..that was the only time she saw me cry. Normally, I would go into her room by myself, and talk to her alone..and that's when I would break down...
What made it worse was the baby across the hall..we watched them bring this baby in, no parents, no relatives...only the doctors. And the baby had problems...a NEWBORN infant. Nobody came to see her..she was alone from the time she came in the hospital. Then two days later, we had to watch as the doctors made the decision....she would not have a fulfilling life outside of machines...and they made the call to..well, let her go. I think that really tore me up, and my wife. How do you do that? That poor baby never knew what a sunrise was...or saw the ocean, blah...anyway - that was the emotional state I was in...so I can't see where Suboxone caused me to be in a fog.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:11 am 
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Quote:
OPIOIDS, CHRONIC PAIN AND LOW TESTOSTERONE IN MEN

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11TH, 2013 / HORMONES MATTER TEAM

Does your guy suffer from chronic pain? Does he use opioid based pain-killers on a regular basis? Then he may also have low testosterone. Low testosterone or as the advertisers call it, Low T, is associated with a range of health issues beyond just reduced libido or sex drive. His low testosterone could be an important factor in his health and recovery.

Testosterone influences, muscle mass, bone density, cognition and memory, depression, and even insulin production. Many men with low testosterone are at risk of osteopenia and osteoporosis. Lower testosterone or hypogonadism has even been associated with an increased risk of heart attack. That means, in addition to worrying about managing chronic pain, the risks associated with long term opioid use, you and your guy now also should be aware of the critical hormone changes taking place. It is possible these hormone changes are compounding an already difficult recovery.

The study, published in the Clinical Journal of Pain, found that 53% of the men tested who were using daily opioids had low testosterone. Moreover, 74% of men using long-acting or time-released opioid pain killers had low testosterone compared to only 34% of those using short acting opioid pain-killers. Interestingly, the morphine-standardized equivalent dose (MSE), a measure of how much pain-killer is circulating in the bloodstream, was not associated with the testosterone levels. This means that higher dose pain killers were not tied to lower testosterone, only the duration of the medication action was associated with the hormone change. Long-acting (time release) pain-killers were linked to lower testosterone while short-acting pills were not.

Long-acting Opioids

Buprenorphine
Fentanyl Patches
Methadone
Morphine CR
Oxycontin

Short-acting Opioids

Oxycodone IR
Hydrocodone

If your guy is using is opioid pain-killers to manage a chronic pain from injury, have his doctor check his testosterone levels too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:05 am 
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Sargedog (aka--winningduhepic) posted several times in this thread, his posts were removed. That's where the confusion is coming from.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:46 pm 
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TeeJay wrote:
This is an issue that gets mentioned here from time to time. It seems like it affects a lot of people, male and female. But I'm interested in knowing exactly how many people have suffered endocrine / hormone issues as a result of their sub treatment?

Here are some of the symptoms (cut and pasted):

- Anaemia
- Decreased libido
- Decreased muscle mass
- Depression
- Fatigue
- Menstrual irregularities
- Osteoporosis
- Vasomotor instability (aka body temperature issues)
- Weight gain

I know there are a number of people on this forum who have found they need testosterone supplementation, some guys who are even really too young to suffer low T from natural causes. So I'm interested in why less hasn't been done to raise awareness of this problem which is caused by long term opioid use including Sub and methadone.

For me it's been something that's gradually gotten worse over time while maintaining on my normal dose of 12mg of Suboxone a day. Mind you I haven't had my T levels checked, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're low at the moment.


i suffer from very low testosterone (it was in the 120s) and weight LOSS from subs. it was bad enough that my doc thought i was taking anabolic steroids and meth (i used to weigh 170ish at 5'10", and am now 132 clothed with keys, wallet, phone, etc...

subs really messed with my body, but while i was on it, i was too unmotivated to care...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Fiveseven15 wrote:
i suffer from very low testosterone (it was in the 120s) and weight LOSS from subs. it was bad enough that my doc thought i was taking anabolic steroids and meth (i used to weigh 170ish at 5'10", and am now 132 clothed with keys, wallet, phone, etc...

subs really messed with my body, but while i was on it, i was too unmotivated to care...


I lost a crazy amount of weight on subs too. Within my first 2 months I dropped from a size 28 jean to a 25, sometimes even a 24.. That's the smallest size available for Women without having to go to kids sizes.. I was as skinny on subs as I was in my active heroin addiction, but just healthier. I didn't look like I was walking death.. just super skinny. My hair thinned too and I chalked that up to the drastic weight loss but I see so many people talking about losing hair so I don't know if they too are losing weight...?

Anyway, I'm back to a 28 after 1 year off subs and I wish I could go back to not worrying about what I am eating. :( The weight loss was a welcomed side effect for me, personally..lol.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Just wanted to bump this thread. I'm going in to have blood work done this week and have my testosterone levels checked. I'll update the thread when I get my results.

I've been on suboxone for close to three years. I take 6mg per day.
I'm in my early thirties.


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