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 Post subject: Opinions needed !
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:24 pm 
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I just sent an inbox stating I am tired of the titration obsession I am experiencing.It's really all I think about and I am having uncomfortably.Questioning the quality of my sobriety and can I strengthen my trust in God.I am really wishy/washy today.My previous posts are about my titrating and semi-positive.Then I thought my daughter does not deserve my wd's and neither dose someone I am helping in the program,as I said in the inbox,how do you tell some one you have not had a drink in a long time and this is how I did it,but I will be in wd's from this to this date.Will they lose faith.Do I refer them to another woman?

Then I saw on another site about re-induction,some guy is really helping people.You jump off ,I believe at any dose,then hit 26 on the cows scale and induct at the smallest effective dose.Continue to titrate 25% etc.then skip 1,2,3,and 4days so the half life catches up with you. I am in no way promoting this,and not giving any direction to do so.Long story short..what is anybody's opinion on re-induction and has anyone decided to d/c getting off subs.to similar reasons.Cowardly or logic?I am doubting myself.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:58 am 
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Hi Hope!

Im sorry if you've stated this in another thread (as I don't think I've read your titration thread), but how long have you been on the Sub, and WHY have you decided to get off? Is it because your pregnant? If this IS the case.......is this something that your Sub doctor or your O.B want.......OR is this YOUR decision?

I've been on the Sub for almost two years. Actually, July31st will make two years. BEST years I've had in a looooong time!!
I was on Suboxone up until I became pregnant. Then, after I learned I was preggers, my doctor switched me to Subutex.

When I first found out I was pregnant, I was scared to death. And all of the stories on the internet where moms are talking about they're babies suffered from horrible NAS, and they only took a SMALL AMOUNT of Sub while pregnant. Well, I tried to taper a little while I was pregnant.......and I JUST COULDN'T DO IT!!

The only time I was succesfull at taking a lower dose was in the 1st tri-mester......simply because I was usually either sleeping or throwing up, so taking less WASN'T difficult. But, for the rest of my pregnancy, IDK......I felt so nervous/anxious all the time, I just could not handle reducing......SO I DIDN'T!

And you know what...(I do realize Im VERY lucky), my baby DID NOT have NAS. At least not at the hospital. The day we were released (about 72hrs after birth), my son began to get pretty fussy. And his first night home HE DID CRY ALOT......BUT, my milk hadn't come in yet and he was getting really hungry. So, I don't know if it was NAS, or just because he was hungry, or BOTH. All I know, is my baby was never determined to have NAS at the hospital, and THANK GOD.....never had to be put on medication.

As I stated, I know Im one of the very lucky women, who's baby didn't suffer. But, the thing is.....it seems as though it dosen't really matter what dose your on while pregnant. I took 16mg MOST of my pregnancy, and my baby was born healthy. I began nursing him 15min after they finished my c-section. He stayed in MY ROOM the entire hospital stay.....except when they'd take him away for a few min to do the normal baby checking stuff. And now......he's not even four months old, and he weighs 17lbs and wears 9month clothing! AND, he just cut his first tooth!! I love him SO MUCH!!

Sorry, got kinda carried away there!

My point is, please don't get off the Sub if your NOT truly ready. Its a hard enough thing to do anyways (tapering off Sub), and if your not ready and if your pregnant, on top of that......I wouldn't do it Hope. Why put yourself through this if you don't have to?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:37 am 
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That re-induction method sounds like a lot of unnecessary suffering to me. Some people I've heard do something similar though. They taper down regularly and start skipping days. When they start having withdrawals, they only take the absolute smallest amount of sub possible to stop the withdrawals. It's pretty much the same idea as this "re-induction" method, but a lot less withdrawal suffering. There's just no need to go through all that, in my humble opinion.

I apologize, but I'm not understanding your first paragraph clearly, so I'm not comfortable commenting on that. Maybe you could clarify what you mean? You mentioned an "inbox"....were you referring to private messages? Are you saying that while tapering down you're starting to almost get obsessed thinking about the taper? I've always thought that it's better to put it out of one's mind instead of focusing on every single little w/d symptom. Why perseverate on negatives, when all it will do is make you more aware of those negatives? Again, I might be misunderstanding you, so let me know what exactly you mean in that first paragraph and I'll get back to you. Hang in there, my friend!

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 Post subject: Hatmaker and Marie
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:28 am 
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Hi...thank you for your response's. LOL.My 1st paragraph is confusing now that I read it.I unnecessarily commented on a p.m. that I sent earlier,kinda like that person was reading my new comment. Yes confusing for sure.

No I am not pregnant,Marie I was in your shoes a while back and understand the fear you had..it's horrible.I am happy to hear your baby is well,That must have been a very long 9 mos to carry that worry.Amen to a healthy baby!When I say my daughter does not deserve the wd's.It was only last summer I was in detox/rehab,where they stopped my sub. @ 8mg's! And sent me on my way to FLA.Not knowing enough about sub. doses at the time and PAWS'wd etc.I just feel like I had a nervous breakdown in Fla.Til this day I dont remember the first 24 hours when I arrived to Fla. for rehab With no drugs in my body except 5 mg of lexapro.When the detox center driver ,dropped me off at the airport to go to rehab,he actually waited until the plain was boarded,so he was sure that I was on it.I sat in my seat,had a terrible panic attack..thinking of my daughters recital the next day.Told the attendant I was terrified to fly(B.S.) And they let me off.Now my cell phone is blowing up with repeated calls after they realized I never arrived in Fla.My husband picked me up,mad as all hell.I wen to her recital and the next day hopped back on the plane to Fla.I can not express to you the utter depression,guilt and longing for my daughter.Every minute of the day for a month.On top of that it was all drug education and no means of spirituality at all.All I could see was the business end of it.trying to keep people as long as there insurance would allow.

Now here I am this summer again trying to get off subs.that I went back on due to the PAWs I experienced last summer after returning home!I am not special in any way that I feel about my daughter,but this lil girl is sooo in touch with my moods,she is like my extension.

Hatmaker....No I dont think I'm ready.Pressure from my family to get off is too much.And to be painfully honest,I am having some drug behavior.For instance ,I still take it before I get out of bed,I am always wondering how I can enhance my mood,have more energy for the baby,house cleaning etc.I still isolate.I only leave the house for bible study,meetings and things for my daughter.I am constantly turning down invites, or cancelling plans with my girlfriends.

All of the above,in my opinion has been shown to me clearly through prayer and the help of you guys.I think I would like to get on a really low dose and stay on for a while,however something has to change with my constipation! LOL.I have tried everything,Even the really potent stuff we give at work.wth!

The woman I am helping is brand new to sobriety,her doc is alcohol ,as was mine .God saw fit to relieve me of that addiction,however there is "NOTHING" like an opiate addiction to me,anyway.




Thankyou! for listening,responding.I feel I needed to go in depth so you know my concerns and I have read alot of your experiences. I am tired of listening to everyone else telling me how I should feel! They all think I'm high and none of my thoughts,complaints,goals etc.are of my own.It is all blamed on subs.as far as my family is concerned.just fed up.


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 Post subject: p.s.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:43 am 
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If I am experiencing definite depression while on subs. Then what am I in for when I stop!?Perhaps to much focusing on last summer..no clue :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:47 am 
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With everything that you're describing, I'd be inclined to believe that your depression is more related to what's bothering you and what's going on in your life than it being related to the suboxone. Have you ever considered trying an antidepressant? You sure wouldn't be the first one of us to be on it, with or without suboxone. I know I take one (Celexa).

As for the constipation, do you treat it proactively or do you wait until it's an issue? I'd try to treat it daily and proactively, if you're not already. It's a common side effect from opiates.

Hang in there!

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:04 pm 
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IMO.......I think you should stay ON the Sub until YOU'RE READY to come off of it (IF/when that day comes)!!

I know this is gonna seem harsh.......Im going to continue my Sub maintainance for as long as I feel necessary (maybe even indefinitely), and Im not gonna let ANYONE'S opinion of my taking Sub alter that plan. This includes my husband, and the possible dissolution of our marriage, if he were to ever give me an ultimatum. BTW, my husband is against me remaining on Sub, but he still TRIES to support me.

Also, I've suffered from extreme constipation since I was 13.....waaaay before I ever began taking opiates. I've tried almost all of the over-the counter laxatives, enimas, suppositories, prescribed medications. What works THE BEST for me is Cod Liver Oil. Its natural, a good source of vitamins A&D, and you can get it at almost any store.

I started taking this in place of a pretty strong colon cleanser, while I was pregnant.....because its safe. It works so well for me, that I decided to just continue taking it after I had my baby.

Hope, If you could get your constipation and depression under control, would you be more inclined to stay on the Sub?

PLEASE don't take this the wrong way.............

I realize that some people really have trouble with side effects from Suboxone....... BUT, addiction is A LIFE LONG DISEASE!

And, I just feel like if Sub is helping you stay in remission from a deadly disease........its totally worth it to DO WHATEVER YOU HAFTA DO TO STAY ON IT.





BTW........You seem like AN AWESOME MOTHER, AND PERSON!!!


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 Post subject: Thank you
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:53 pm 
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As the day goes on(btw it's HOT here in NY) after speaking quite honestly with my family/friends,some agreed and some did not and either way it did not bother me.Hatmaker,yup I think historically I wait til it's an issue,more often than not.So I am gonna give cod liver oil a try.And it has been mentioned to me that my depression is from external factor,so a birds-eye view is helpful.Marie I agree entirely,and yes regardless of what my husband thinks...I hate to say that...but if I'm ill prepared for the consequences of not being ready.Thank you for the compliments Marie!believe it or not I needed that.I hope to speak to my friends re: my relationship with God and see why I am so blocked/doubtful.The devil/addiction works overtime the closer we are to God/sobriety so I am keeping a look out.Thank you...Sincerely and I will keep you posted.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:06 am 
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Hi again Hope,

I have to whole heartedly agree that the only time someone should come off of Suboxone is when THEY are ready.....not when your spouse bitches at you because of it, not because NA or AA tells you to do it, not because your "friends" are concerned with you being on Suboxone.......the only person who would have any bearing on you getting off of Suboxone, beside you, is your doctor.

Look, I got off Suboxone last year because I KNEW I was ready. I KNEW it in my heart, I KNEW it in my soul. I set a quit date and as my quit date approached I was getting excited!!! Imagine that, I knew I was going to experience wd, but as my quit date got closer and closer, the more excited I got!!

Now, the rest of the story. Quitting Suboxone is only one piece of the puzzle, once you quit, you gotta stay quit!! Even though I was totally committed to living drug free, it only took 10 short months off of Suboxone before I slipped and took some pain pills again. What I didn't have a firm grasp on was the REAL power of addiction. I worked with an addiction counselor for the three years I was on Suboxone. I thought I knew all about addiction.....well, I learned a whole lot more about how ridiculously powerful this disease of mine is when I slipped. My point, if YOU'RE not completely ready to get off of Suboxone, I think a relapse or an OD may be in your future and I DO NOT want either of those for you!!!!!

I would encourage you to stay on Suboxone, get to as a low a dose as you can, a dose that lets you live a good quality of life. I would encourage you to work with an addiction counselor so you can figure out some of the addictive behaviors that you're still exhibiting and how to counter them. Also, I relied heavily on my faith to get where I am today, but I didn't rely soley on my faith......God's not gonna magically fix you, He could, in a second, but it's been my experience that He wants us to participate in the "fixing" of ourselves. That's the only way were gonna learn more about ourselves, we'll learn how to deal with ourselves and honestly, that work will lead you closer to God and in the end, that's what He wants. It's gonna take work, but you can do it.

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 Post subject: Thanks Everyone
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:22 pm 
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I couldn't be more grateful for all of your sincere response's,I am feeling much better... a few concerns,but not overwhelmed.I am staying on the subs.until "I" am ready. Hope to hear from everyone,let me know how you guys are doing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:28 pm 
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I agree with Romeo 100 percent coming off subs is definitely a personal decision and everyone is different,, I got off them for ME AND NO ONE ELSE. I probably couldnt have done it had I been doing it cuz someone told me to.. and I decided to do it on my own :)

Only you know what is right for you and what you are ready to deal with, honestly withdrawing from subs is the easy part, staying clean is definitely work and if your not ready for all that then by all means keep your disease in remission

:)
Lisa


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 Post subject: Thanks mg113
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:32 pm 
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I missed your post,thankyou and it's all true.


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