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 Post subject: Opiates to Suboxone
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:05 pm 
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Hello,

I am new to this forum, and wanted to take a moment and tell you all some things about me.
I was in a bad car wreck in 95' and as a result was totally disabled from it. I broke my C-3 vert., ruptured disc(s) @ l3-l4, displaced and destroyed the patella at right knee, broke right foot and tore the ligaments that move my toes in that foot also. These injuries caused me to lose my job, and after four years of trying to find work w/ any success, I signed up and now receive SSI benefits.

Just after the accident, while going through rehab, I was being prescribed demerol 100 mg 3x/dy, percocet 10 4 x a day and a pain patch, and muscle relaxers, etc...

I continued to use opiates for many, many years of various types, even oxycontin when it came out. The a plague of od's in this area caused my primary doctor to stop prescribing oxies, and he put me on Percs, and a Duragesic patche(s), 2-50 mg patches at the same time and Avinza for break through pain.

As the years passed, and my chronic pain was being contolled with those meds, my doctor referred me to a pain clinic, which was then about a 2 hour drive away, one way. He liked to use epi shots in addition to lower strength pp's. If you tell this doctor that the shots were not helping was your wasy out the door as he dismisses any patient that refuses or says they are not helping or are even late for or miss an appointment. At this clinic it was cash for the doctor visits and fortunately my Part D prescription insurance paid for the meds.

I got tired of driving so far for such a strict doctor who seemed more interested in money (the shots are very expensive)than his patients, I got in with a Pain Mgt. Doctor closer to me. Cash for visits there also.

I will be the first to admit that the opiates become less effective after using them for so long, and my doctor counted my meds every month too and I was always short on them. We had discussed many visits b4 how that I was having to use more and more of the meds to be able to function.

So, he wanted me to try Suboxone for well documented chronic pain. I had not heard of it being used for CP, but listened and he went over the less is best info, and so I agreed to try this sub. tretament for CP.

I started this new PM regime just this last week:
He prescribed me 15 Subutek to get the opiates out of my system. 84 8/2 mg Suboxone SL Strips, 1/2 a strip ea. 4-6 hours as needed for pain, Clonazapam, 1 mg 3 x/ dy and neurontin, 300 mg, 3 x / day.
I took the Subutek and started the Subuxone.

While taking the Subutek, I coulnd't really tell I had even taken them, for the first 3-4 days, and then I started getting sick and hurting. I started the suboxone and the first couple days had a headache and some stomach issues. Today, I felt some better and it seems to be helping some with my pain, but I have been taking Tylenol too.

The biggest thing other than some sick feelings, is that the psychological cravings for the opiates are still here. I had to hide any "opies" I have so I will not even see them when I go take a leak. That helped some.

The other thing that is bad is that who I thought were friends are 1 by 1 started to call way less, when they do come by and I tell them the regime I am using now, they don't stay as long as they did. It was undescribably difficult to say "no" thanks today when one of my long time friends came by and offered me a 30, and I had to say, na', this med I am taking has an opiate blocker in it. Some of us usually watch a football game on Sundays, now I am here alone....ok....

Anyway, seems the Suboxone may be good for chronic pain, it does as I stated seem to be helping with the pain, and as I am certain you all know, -zeroz- euphoria though. No problem.

The thing that does concern me some is what about an injury, surgery, etc since my PMD says since I have been taking opiates for so long and have a history of abuse I may need to take the Suboxone for life. I know could talk to him about a taper to wean off the sub., but then I will be back to cp, which is bad enough that OTC's alone have very little effect for my pain relief.

Any positive comments, etc will be appreciated.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:28 pm 
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Hi boxer, welcome!

I dont have chronic pain, I am on suboxone for addiction. So I dont have experience with this.

I just wanted to welcome you. I know there are people on here who say suboxone works well for their pain. They dose a few times a day. I know one member here who felt sub was not working for his pain and he got on methadone. He is much happier now. His thread is called
My Switch. I think if sub is working to control your pain and you are having no side effects than its ok to stay on it for life. Its really up to you and your doctor.

If you need surgery you can stop subs before the procedure. You can switch back to regular opiates for a while. Although surgeons dont know alot about sub you can help educate them.

This is a great fourm with
alot of great people who will soon welcome you and answer any questions.

Stick around and keep posting!

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I have been on suboxone 2.5 years and take 4mg once daily. I love my sub and plan to be on it for two more years.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:59 pm 
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WELL, you have been thrown thru the mud, huh??????

not meaning to sound "bad" in ANY way, Im just saying, you have been thru some SHIT, my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes, the non-stop needing to "up" your dose, gets OLD, fast.

I thought I had a bad back, but Im a wuss, compared to you, dude 8)
i've been in two fairly bad accidents, the second one REALLY tweaked my back, causing lots of nerve pain.
Anyways, i was on all/any opiates, for about ten years, i'd say Shoveling them for about 6-7
Working construction, for ten years, is REAL good for your back ,, too I might add. :roll:

Anyways, I still hurt pretty bad, when I first started the suboxone, but I really think it was my body, just
SCREAMING at me, for what it was used to.
Now, that i've been on suboxone for 18mos, I feel sooooooooo much better in so many ways. EVEN in the pain department.
I have arthritus, and the vertebra in my lower back, the "scan" shows them touching, pinching nerves.
So, it's painful but I think you 'learn' different tricks of the trade, to help along the way.
I work full time as a painter now.
MUCH easier on my back, but Im still standing on a concrete floor, eight hours a day, sometimes more.
So,
some days are worse, of course, BUT,,,, things that help ME
MOTRIN,,,, can't stress that enough!!!!!! I take some as soon as I wake up, usually about 3am I hobble out to the recliner, to finish sleeping, , , I have a good bed now, and sleep with THREE pillows between my knees, but ya know, I STILL wake up hurting real bad.
THAT RECLINER,,,, OMG, that has helped so much. Just sleeping in it after I wake up in bed helps my pain, even when I forget to take the motrin, LOL............Just having my feet elevated, takes the pressure off, or something????
AND,
a good heating pad, helps, too. especially when its cold out.
They have those heat PATCHES, too. they are a litttle spendy, but worth it, in my opinion.
My dr. tried nuerontin, with me, but it made me SOO dizzy i couldn' t handle it.
So, he gave me generic flexiril.
That helps, but knocks me out, so I only take it, when I cant really sleep.

I started out on 24mg of suboxone a day....... I had been on a high (IMO) dose of methadone for a couple yrs on/off.
ANYways, I took one strip, three times a day.
Now, Im paying cash outta pocket, no insurance, so I've really tried to cut back,and been doing
"okay" I think!!!!!
I've been able to drop to 4mg twice a day,,,, sometimes I end up taking another at night, just depends on how the other meds help that day.
BUT, even then, (3 halves a day) Im only taking HALF what I was before, and I feel the same :wink:
I actually think I feel better.

I really hope this helps you, at least gives you some :idea: ideas :idea: on different "tricks" LOL
Chronic Pain, SUCKS I know,
im pretty "ok" with the possibility of being on at least a smaller dose of suboxone, for a long while.
At least I can work and move around, excersise, all that stuff, ya know..........
I wasn't as "ok" with it, a year ago, though.
I actualy thought to myself, that AFTER Im on suboxone about a year, I could go BACK to some dilaudid or
something and take it "as perscribed"
well, now i realize that's my addiction at work, and it'd be NO TIME at all before I was mainlining them in the parking lot of the pharmacy, again :roll:
HANG IN THERE,,,,,,
i think you've made a real positive change,,, here.
Im sorry your feeling alone right now. that also hapened to me, in the start. My phone USED to ring NONSTOP
and like you say, always people 'stopping by' to see me.
needless to say all it took was me saying, "I quit" for them to not really come by OR call anymore.
Actually i ended up changing my phone number,cuz i knew I'd fail if I didn't...........
your probably also going to "mourne' that "high" feeling.
I sure did!!!!! went thru ALL the stages of grief, and i guess Im still trying to get over it.
But, PROGRESS
is ALL that counts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So,
keep posting, keep your head up, try and stay positive about the things YOU DO HAVE going for you.......
AND post here, WHENEVER you feel like it.
there's alot of great people here, and I think You'll find a ton of support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really hope this helps, at least somewhat :wink: :wink: :wink:

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its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
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 Post subject: Suboxone
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Thank both of you for your responses !

I will check out the thread my switch here in a few minutes, tx..

I am doing ok on the suboxone for the cp along wiht some tylenol. I ma still having trouble falling and staying asleep and some extreme itching at night mostly though. I have been taking 25 mg of benadryl and I am going to take 50 mg tonight.

The sub seems to be helping some with my pain, I am still craving opies though psychologically. I hid my opiates I had left over from when I started the sub regime. It has helped me some, not seeing the opies on the top of my dresser everytime I go take a leak, but I still know they are there. I even thought about throwing them away. I am going to keep them though in case something unexpected happens with my PMD and for some reason can't get the subs anymore. I know it will not be a dirty drug screen or anything like that, but with it being and election year, and a big emphasis seems to be on health care. I worry that my Part D prescription plan might stop covering or reduce the amount they do cover of sub and other meds I HAVE TO TAKE.

I read that the FDA has approved a suboxone patch for cpp. My insurance does not cover them, and I heard that the pills are being recalled by the Pharm. company, I hear because they want to seel more of the strips, and also they said that the pill form is easier to abuse.

I have been going out in town and looking up new friends, which is pretty difficult to find any that are not drunk or are not still strung out. I wasted a good deal of my life addicted to opiates, and partying. Seems when you get the reputation of being a "wild child", the friends I had before opies don't want to have anything to do wioth me, even if I tell them I have slowed down, and I am clean now...ah', they just look at me like, liar, we know you !!

Last night a friend that does some drugs recreationally not a lot came by and his power had been turned off, his gf was at work and he just got off work , so I let him take a shower here and borrow some clean clothes for the evening. I went to his house with him, and the power compnay had not pulled the meter, it was dark and it puzzled me. I looked around w/ a flash light and they had actually (or someone) cut the lines at top of the service pole.....but anyway, he said "man I could sure use a nerve pill bout' now", I told him I was due a refill, which was true, but I did have a few benzos, but since the way others have been avoiding me, I wanted to see his reaction. When we got mback to my house, we called the power co., and in the meantime, he said" man , I've got 6 bucks, know of anything that I could hook up with for a few bucks..." See he didn't know that I was on sub now and I used to turn people on that have been good friends like him. When I told him what my PMD was giving me now, he said "yea', I know some other people who are taking that shit...." I told him that it seemed to be helping me, he said "that stuff ain't worth a flip.." I told him I thought it was doing a good job and it was helping my pain some, I have more money now, etc...He didn't stay long after that. I bet it will be a while until I see him again like the others probably. Did he just stop by to tell this out of power story to get a buzz from my meds?

I can attest to this, after I take a dose, about 45 minutes later I get a lot of energy and a slight kinda' buzz, sort of glassy eyed a little, it may be the feeling of being off strong opies maybe.

I just hope that I can stay clean, for good....but if something were to happen with my sub the doctor or Lord only knows what, I just know I would be pulling my bottles back out after waiting a miserable day or 2 and be back in the saddle w/ the opies, and be broke most of the time.

I also heard that there may some generic pill forms of sub coming out and that they may be less expensive and if I could get the sub in generic form, it would draw less attention to my Part D provider. Has anyone heard if/when a generic tablet may be coming out to the market?

Sincerely,


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:05 pm 
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^ You actually are on strong opiates. Bup/ sub is stronger than most pain pills at lower doses. You are itching at night & feeling buzzed after you dose because, well, you're buzzed.

Congrats on losing some of those friends that will inevitably suck the life out of you. The true friends will stick around no matter what you're taking or not taking. The hardest part about switching to suboxone is getting out of all the rituals you used to have. It's almost instantly a different life.


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 Post subject: Suboxone etc.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:07 am 
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Well, I have started taking benadryl for the itching and to help with the insomnia.

I realize that Buprenorphine is a narcotis


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 Post subject: Suboxone etc..cont;d...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:19 am 
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I realize that the buprenorphine in subonone is a narcotic like drug, I thought that the naloxone in it would stop any of the buzz like feelings one would get from it then.

I have found that taking benadryl helps with the itching and insomnia.

I still find that the suboxone is helping w/ the cp, but here is that still buzz like feeling I get about 45 minutes or less after I dose, especially in the morning, which is my first dose of the day.

I usually take tylenol or aleve during the day to help the pain that still gets past the suboxone.

I guess I was just surprised after several days of taking the suboxone that I still get like a buzz of of the suboxone.

I hace read that it will go away after a few days to weeks, It is this buzz like feeling that seems to make me crave the opiates though.

My PMD told me that suboxone does not give you a "buzz". I guess he must have meant: not a "buzz" like 30's give one I guess.

Ss far so good as for managing the cp, and I just hope I don't develope a tolerance with the suboxone as I did with the opiates I was taking them for along time b4 starting the sub?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:41 am 
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here's a video on tolerance/dependance
In MY opinion,,,, you dont develop a tolerance to suboxone, like what you are thinking of.....
the "buzz" feeling SHOULD go away witha lil time
but what I found,,,,
FOR Me, I was wondering if "this was a buzz" feeling, but it was actualy just the FEELING that NORMAL people have every day,,, you know,,, not being worried about chasing pills, waking up in w/d in the morning, not having money for anything.
ANYWAYS,
that's been MY experience.
suboxone definitely NEVER gave me what I would call a "real" opiate buzz,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
hope you find this video helpful
link to dr. J's OTHER videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/SuboxDoc?feature=watch

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsCFZO8eYdo&feature=channel&list=UL[/youtube]

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Thanks for the video, I have better undestanding of the way suboxone and how buprenorphine effects the mu-receptor.

I am going to watch more of his videos later and become more informed on the way suboxone works, etc.

The "buzz" I refer to is at best very slight, from what I research will subside as time goes on. Cravings for other opiates have went down to nearly nothing, which I am very thankful for too.

I do know that the suboxone seems to give me more energy for a much longer amount of time than the other opiates did, and I don't feel bad the next morning like a "hangover" left for me to deal w/ from other opiates. Now I do not hit the streets if I was out of my prx'd meds like I have had to sometimes in the past. I ma thankful that my pmd knows this and seems to be very understanding, he just said for me to never forget to never have a dirty UDT after the initial one.

I slept last night through the night for the first time in going on 2 weeks!

I think for me anyway, that suboxone has saved my life and as others I have read say ("suboxone is a miracle drug")

Thank you again for such useful videos and information.

Sincerely,

boxer


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:37 pm 
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I know I talked baout this in my introduction, about how hose "friends" are just not around like used to be.

Well, I thank all of oy for the positive comments.

Today I my bday, I turned 52, big whoop !

My day consisted of having dinner at my Mother's, which was nice, coming home and trunging on the tv, and feeding the Yorkie...

This is the first time ina long while I have not been at a party this time of year.

No biggie and I am not looking for anyone to cry for me either..

I just simply find it amazing since I started on suboxone I guess I am not even worth having a party with now.

I could fill a bucket with the pp's I have GIVEN to these so called frig'n friends.

Knew it was not real, but I guess that I was in a make beilieve world of so called's.

One day I now will be here when I see in the paper or get a phone call, "heard that bubba od'd didn't ya"

Well, I have been trying to make new friends, and find it difficult in the area I live in. I guess I wasted too many years hanging out with the wrong people staringat the inside of the pipe looking "blankly" trying to see if there was any light at the other end....LOL

My new rule is, I don't give, don't let borrow,don't front, don't know, don't do any of that sheet and I guess and if I stay away from those who have assisted me in wasting my life away I may find a new group to hang out with.

I just wonder if they will call when they need a ride 3-4 hours to go to their pill mill. I ask because I am one of the few in that"old group of so called's..that have a ride that would safely make the round trip and they know it.

Oh, I forgot to mention, will they still call this winter when their light bill gets cut off and ask if they borrow yo' generator and/or can they crash on the couch a couple days when it <30 outside?

Make a body wonder....

What the Helllllp have I done with the last 20 years of my life...I'man old frg'n man w. 3 grandkids, and everyone says, I am lucky to have blah blah...

Well, I ma here to tell anyone that Suboxone is working for my cpm, but darn if they must have fprgot to tell me at the clinic, this medicine teaches you magic "how to disapper in less than two weeks"

Ok, enough vents in roof already...life will go on.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:30 pm 
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Happy Birthday Boxer!!!

After reading your last post, I can't help but wonder if NA or AA or some type of recovery oriented group of people would be of benefit to you?

You're going through what a lot of us ex-users go through. When we quit doing drugs, we lose that druggie life and all the "friends" that go with it. I remember my addiction counselor telling me that I would mourn the loss of my drugs and my "friends", but I thought he was nuts.....until I started getting all sad and missing my drugs and the "friends" that came with it all.

For the last 20 years of your life, you've lived that lifestyle, you've got used to that lifestyle and it was probably, in at least some ways, comfortable to you. Now you're out of your comfort zone and you don't quite know what to do with yourself.

Going to NA or AA or doing SMART recovery meetings can be a way for you to get in touch with people who have been through or are going through what you're going through. Just the simple fact that you know you're not the only one dealing with shit like you're dealing with can be a great relief.

I remember a quote from another website, it goes like this, "When I got clean, all of my problems did NOT go away, but they got real fucking clear all of a sudden." Learning healthy ways to deal with this new clarity can be tough. It's gonna take work. Meetings may be able to help you out?

Either way, Happy Birthday and I hope you get to feeling better soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Thanks friend,

I read your post just now and you are right.

A coupe of friends are supposed to stop by in little while as they have for weeks and watch WWE Rage in a Cage..

I guess I'll see if they show, if not, sounds like ok thing to occupy myself with !

I need too see what evenings they have the NA at the bowling Alley near here and try a couple meetings out there and try to meet some new people there.

I know with time things will get a lot better, I guess I didn't look far enough ahead to see how my so called friends would react to me getting off the other opiates. Like I see it and many have said, it is their loss, not mine !

It does help me some to go to this forum and check out others stories. I have spent a lot of time on the net lately to try and keep me from thinking about a relaspe. I know I can do it. I have gone this far. I just def. do not want to start al over again. I just know for some reason (gut instinct) that I was not going to be going to a rehab facility, but I feel like I would have or would soon be in jail...now that would really sk.


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 Post subject: 1st Follow up w Doc
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Tomorrow I go for my first follow up with my doc.

If he ask me how well the sub is doing for my pain, I am not sure how to answer him, since the stronger opiates work better for me.

It is like between a rock and a rock lol

I hope he doesnt ask me wht I think about the 200 bucks office visist fee!

I do know at first, I had no cravings for strong drugs, now my mind continually occipied with the thoughts of stronger opiate drugs.

I figure noone wiil even read this since it is in my introduction category.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:06 pm 
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This is the first time I've read your introduction thread. I realize that in the thread about the microchip I let kindness take a back seat and I am sorry for that.

I understand your dilemma about what to tell your doctor. I think that you just need to be honest about how much it is or isn't helping with the pain. I would also ask him if he knows of any support groups for suboxone patients. You definitely need a new community of people who aren't using you for drugs.

I've been thinking about how to go about forming a new circle of friends. Usually I would recommend starting with your church, but I've read in another thread that you would be attending with a bunch of people who only know you as a stereotype. I guess that one recommendation would be to find a new faith family in a new town. It may be worth it to travel a little farther to a place that you can have a fresh start.

Another thing to think about, perhaps you could find a group to volunteer with. When you're feeling low it's very easy to turn inward and only think about your situation. Sometimes it helps to figure out who is worse off and find a way to help. You are a good writer. Maybe you could find a way to tutor a kid who is struggling and doesn't have a supportive family. One great organization is Habitat for Humanity and you don't need to be especially skilled to volunteer, but if you are skilled in any carpentry area they will love it! Are there any soup kitchens or homeless shelters that could use a hand? In Denver we have an organization called The Interfaith Hospitality Network that helps homeless families get back on their feet. So my suggestion is to look for an organization that helps people and that needs volunteers.

I don't know if any of my suggestions will help, but I believe you have a lot to offer, so don't keep yourself isolated.

I wish you the best for your appointment and everything else.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Thank you for you compliments.

I need to find a new group for sure.

I will think about looking into helping others as you suggest.

Yes, I have become somewhat isolated.....I wish I could show you on Google Maps where I live, that may tell a lot about why there aren't many groups around here, and what are seem to be a questions and answer type from the ones I went to. Well how are you doing now so n so...oh........and I would like for you all to meet boxer, he is a dope head that needs to meet people who doesn't do drugs...etc...

I went to a local church in the small town where I live, (I think 529 people voted in this district) and the first thing they asked was what I do, I am disabled, oh,,,,for what...a MVA,, then they hit me with the sentence, we like for our members to tithe (sp?) I am barely making it as it is, and they believed in a 10% of total earnings...wow, this area fyi is in the bible belt and the churches here are very close knit, A couple right near here handle snakes, and the preacher at one of them died this summer after a rattler bit him, he refused med. attention as they req by their faith...another one bites the dust,,,,,doomp,. doomp, doomp, another one butes the dust.

The majority of people, probably over 50% of the population here is on a check of soem kind and their families have been for generations. Many of them got to doc and have a 3 buck co-pay, and get some really strong opies and sell them for a big profit. Like 25 bucks for a 30, for exp.

I have thought about writing another book, the last one was scientific, this one I amy wite about drugs and the effect they ahve on people, maybe use this area as an example. That would keep me occupied and maybe I could volunteer at the local mental health clinic, a large one for such a small area too, and try to help people get off of drugs, etc...I have a degree, so maybe that would be a possibility for me.

I know many more dead people from drugs than I know who are alive due to the epidemic here.

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BUPRENORPHINE



Synonyms:

UM-952;Lepetan;rx6029m;Subutex;Temgesi;Buprenex;NIH-8805;Temgesic;CL-112302;Buprenorfin


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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