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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:01 pm 
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My husband and I were both addicted to Vicodine. When we didn't have Vicodine at one time we were going through withdrawals and a friend of ours said that he knew something that would help and he turned us on to heroine. So then we got addicted to both. We decided about 6 months ago to get off the heroine and we took just vicodine which we were able to get off the heroine. We were taking anywhere between 10 to 15 tens at a time in the morning and in the evening and we were immuned to them. I was in a bad car accident several years ago and I am not able to work. I was on Vicodine for pain for 3 years and my husband had been on it for 5 years.

We heard about Suboxone and that it would help with the withdrawals off the vics, so we got some (not legally) to try. They worked, so we tried to get a doctor to see us and could not get into see one. In our immediate are there are only two doctors that handle suboxone treatment and they were not taking new patients. We have been getting them off the street but we are wanting to get off of them.

We started taking 4 mgs twice a day and then after about three days we dropped down to 2 mgs twice a day for about a month. We dropped to 1 mg twice a day and have been doing that for the last two months. We are wanting to get off of these. We have 3-8mg pills left and we are wanting to know if we jumped right now how bad the withdrawals would be. I have been on Zanax for a long time for another condition that I have and I have high blood pressure and am on meds for that.

Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:35 pm 
Hello paralegal and welcome! I'm glad you decided to post and ask some questions. I read your other post in the "intro" section as well. I'm so sorry that you and your husband have found yourselves in the same mess as so many of the rest of us! It especially breaks my heart when there are kids involved (I think you said you have 2 teenagers in your other post.) I have kids also. I'm thankful that the older two of mine were pretty much grown and off to college before I really spiraled out of control, but sad that the youngest (now 16) didn't have the full presence of her real Mommy for a few years. I know earlier on I would have sworn that I had hidden my addiction well enough that she had no awareness of it. But in hindsight, I'm sure she had to have seen the moodiness and possibly other signs that I wasn't quite right. You mentioned that your kids had seen you both go through w/d so I'm sure they're more than aware of your addiction. The impact of this disease on our kids is really is heartbreaking....the money we spent (wasted) on our addiction probably could have been saved for their college funds, better Christmases, vacations, whatever. And the emotional impact on them is even worse. I'm sure your love for those kids has a lot to do with your wanting to end this and I commend you for that.
I understand your predicament in obtaining your Subs illegally. Obviously, I'm not going to say it's okay or best, but I get it. There are not nearly enough doctors available in many areas to take care of everyone's needs. However, I encourage you to keep trying to get in with a Subox doctor. Even getting on a waiting list would be a good idea.
You asked about when to try to stop Sub. That's a tough question to answer, as the answer can vary a lot from one person to the next. With your drug histories, it is my opinion that you're going to need longer than what you have so far....perhaps a year or more to really have had enough time to have a fair chance of not relapsing very soon after getting off the Sub. It just takes a while to learn how to live without opiates in our system after our brain has adapted to having them there for so long. We'd like to think that just using Sub to get through the harsh w/d of our former drug/s of choice would be enough to keep us straight for life. But that is usually not the case. Having said that....if you are determined to get off sooner than later, it seems that the ones who fare the best are those who taper down even further than you two already have, like less than a half milligram a day. To get that low and then stop Sub relatively easily generally takes quite a while, making tiny drops in dosage of the course of weeks or months. You can read about our more successful taper stories on this section of the site, if you haven't already. Of course, there are some who have stopped at higher doses but they usually speak of a much more difficult and longer period of w/d. In other words, there is no easy way. I hate it, but that seems to be the truth from my own experience and that of others.
I don't know if I've helped or not. I don't mean to be discouraging. You are trying so hard to do the right thing, I just want it to "stick!" Keep posting here and consider meetings or counselling, especially if you're going to go ahead and stop the Sub soon. Best of luck to you both. We can do this thing.....it just takes time and a very strong committment to do whatever it takes to do it!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:32 am 
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Hi paralegal,

From what I've read, it looks like your opiate history includes about 3 years of use/abuse? It looks like your time on Suboxone is around the 3 month mark?

I have to ask if either you or your husband has attended any kind of AA or NA meetings. Have either one of you been to any kind of drug counselor? The reason I ask is because 3 months of being on sub will not undue 3 years of addictive behavior, especially if you haven't had any kind of counselling. I hope that I'm not coming across as harsh, I honestly don't mean to be harsh.

If I were you guys, there is no way I would be coming of Suboxone yet, unless you and your husband have been doing a lot of counselling and have made a lot of progress towards understanding your addiction.

Now, if you're absolutely determined to quit sub, you're going to be jumping off around 2mg from the looks of it. You were taking 4mg/day for a month, then 2mg/day for 2 months. Hmmm, you're definitely going to feel wd, but I'm going to say it's not going to be AWFUL. It's not going to be fun, that's for sure. Sub wd may not be quite as intense as wd from H or Vicoden, but it lasts a lot longer.

I would try everything in my power to get some more subs and taper down way further. You can minimize you wd greatly by tapering much, much lower than where you are now. If you decide to get some more subs and taper down, please consider seeing some kind of addiction counselor or attending some kind of AA or NA so you can prepare your brain to live life without any opiates.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:13 am 
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Thank you guys for your posts. My husband and I have been talking with an orgainzation that is in our community. About a year ago, I stopped taking the vics with the assistance of my primary care doctor. I went into his office crying and told him that I was tired of them running my life and my husbands and ruining my kids life. I did really well for about 4 months then I was in another car accident and I am sure you have heard the story before, I went back on the vicodine. My husband didn't last more than a month the first time and he asked our doctor to put him back on the vics, which he did and I asked the doctor why and he said that when he is ready he will know it and it will not happen if he is not ready. We are both determined to not ever take any vicodine again. We almost lost our house and alot of horrible stuff from trying to more vics when we would run out. I though that we had hidden the H use in front of my kids, but my oldest knew and I am sorry to say that he had already been doing it long before we were. So I am not just doing this for myself and my husband I am doing it for my 18 year old. He is on the sub also. We started him on a dose of 1 mg daily because I didn't want him addicted to anything else. He is doing really well. We have alot of family discussions and we have actually gotten closer talking over everything. I also have my 15 year old telling me that if I ever go back on anything he will leave and never come back. I have alot of family support and I feel some good kids. I am determined never to do this again. I do not miss the vics at all. I hate them. I hate taking the sub every day. I don't like the taste and I don't want to depend on another drug to get me through the day.

I know I am rambling, but want to be back to the me that I was before doing all of this crap and I want it bad. I hope that helps when I get off the subs.

Thank you guys so much for being here. I have learned alot on here. I think that I have read everything on this site for the last three months.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:44 pm 
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I really have to jump in here. First of all, let me say that I too am addicted to opiates and it has put my life through hell. I have been on Suboxone and in recovery since October 20, 2009 and am doing beyond great. It can be done. There is hope on the other side. So I am no "better" than anyone else here and certainly don't want to judge anyone.

That said, I am beyond concerned with what you are doing. I guess it is one thing if you want to obtain Suboxone illegally in an attempt to treat your addiction on your own, but now I read that you are treating your child as well? You talk almost as if you are a Suboxone provider. "So I am not just doing this for myself and my husband I am doing it for my 18 year old. He is on the sub also. We started him on a dose of 1 mg daily because I didn't want him addicted to anything else." You say that you "started him on 1 mg" as if you are a doctor starting her patient on a new medication. Do you understand how dangerous and how wrong this is? Fully-developed adults very often struggle deeply with opiate addiction. For those under the age of 30 and most certainly for someone who is 18, it's even harder to address.

It is just never, ever a good idea to try to treat yourself by obtaining Suboxone on the street. When you then try to treat an addicted child as well using this same method, I'm just left speechless. I really hope you will take my comments as they are intended. I don't want to see your 18-year old have a life full of addiction and the only chance he has is with professional treatment for that addiction. Having opiate-addicted parents self-medicate that child is a sure recipe for disaster. Please re-think this. Please, get your son the professional treatment that he needs and deserves. The same goes for you but triple for your son. You all need and deserve a real, actual, treatment program. What you are doing is not the way out of this. It just is not.

Please consider getting some professional help for everyone involved. I wish you the very best and hope you will continue to participate here with the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:41 pm 
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I have to second Donh here....there is a lot of denial going on and understandably...Addiction is very complex. It is not about just stopping use. and it is even more complex for adolescents as Donh said.

Your dr said he gave your husband vicodin again because he isn't ready to stop? Did I read that right? That is unethical behavior....I might be able to think he thinks he is being compassionate but it is negligent. at the least. deadly at the worst.

Addiction is life or death. You cannot be dosing your child. I am against dosing ourselves because that is how we got here...self medicating. I am terrified for your family to tell you the truth and I am not judging. I am a chronic opiate relapser on Sub. A junkie that was addicted to vicodin....then at a methadone maintenance clinic until I made the switch to Sub.

Stopping drug use is only the tip of the very huge iceberg. Living without drugs is challenging. Your kids won't keep you clean...I know you say you are done with it and your 15 yo child will leave if you do it again but don't go to a false sense of security that those two things will keep you clean. I have no doubts you are sick of the life...that is what gets us clean a lot of the time....sick and tired of what we've been doing....but I've been sick of it, saying i'm done with it only to use again in a day or two....because I didn't have the tools I needed to stay clean. Remission and Recovery are two different things.

It takes courage for you to come to the forum and tell us your story. thank you for sharing with us...and know that everyone wants you to succeed here...sometimes I get very passionate about this but I don't at all want you to think I am judging you....believe me, I've been there, done that. I have no room to judge anyone. And I know you are in pain. It will get better...stay on sub, don't use and get more help for your kids and you....

Ok, i feel like I am lecturing and that is so not what I want to make you feel like....I am just scared, like donh said, for you because it is a slippery slope. If you can get to a Sub dr and get all of you treated and get some counseling for your 15 yo as well (even tho he isn't using he has had to make threats to you...he needs some support too). I can't remember why you don't have a Sub dr...did you say it had to do with your job and being known? If so can you find a dr in a nearby town an hour away...?

Keep posting and let us know how you are doing....I certainly don't want to scare you off but I'm hoping you can hear some of the concerns...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:04 pm 
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i agree with don and chinagirl. i also dont intend to sound like im lecturing, i want you to know that im speaking from years of drug use. I said im done so many times and so many times my family said they were done with me if i didnt quit and that didnt mean i didnt try but in the end i ended up going back to the pills becuase i really had no control over myself at that point. i want to remind you that we all know how hard you have it right now but the best thing would be to keep trying to ge tinto a dr because jumping off at the dose you are on is going ot be hard and coupled with the fact that you havent been on subs long; its a recipe for disaster. i do hope that you all as a family can start recovery properly.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:48 pm 
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I appreciate all of your replies. I did want to let you guys know that we did try and get a suboxone doctor but where we live there aren't very many and when I called they were not taking patients and told us that they would put us on a waiting list, I don't think that we will have to see one now though. We are already down to powder in the a.m. We r gonna start skipping the evening dose starting tomorrow. We are all 3 doing very well as far as our attitude. We want our life back to normal. Since we have been away from the vics our family seems to be so much happier. I thank God for helping us through this.

From what I have read on other posts people that are actually going to the sub doc are getting put on higher doses of medication for a longer period of time and we did not really want to go that route if we didn't have to. We do have a support system and I feel that we will succeed. My son hasn't seemed happier. He hasn't had a dose of sub in three days and he doesn't seem to be having any problems except some lower back pain, but that could possibly be from his job. He goes to work and comes home. He told us that he did not want around the peoplle that he used to hang with anymore and he is haning with some of his friends that do not drink or do drugs which I am very happy about. We plan to be off the suboxone within the next week and look forward to that point in my life where I can say that i am finally free.

Again thank you everyone for your posts. I read them before I joined and they really helped me alot. I wish luck to everyone.


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