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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 am 
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hi Everyone.
I was very worried about making the final jump. I had been on 4mg for the past 2 and hlf years or so. this after approx. 15 years of 80mg methadone and using twice a day on top. I have been not using for10 years. I was always getting angry and frustrated with every small dose I decreased by on my 2 year taper. my Dr had also said no, no prob. you can go 4 to 2 to 0 easy.. no prob! after I stabilised on 4 decided to drop to 2.. oops, by 1oam in full wd. had the other 2 and fine.
started reducing by 0.5 at first. this was much better. got down to 1mg and started reducing by 0.25. mind you I went back and forward a few times. always regreted it. all that hard work wasted.
I realised now the really small reductions like 0.125 etc don't make much more difference than just cutting by a decent amount. I tried everything. felt like I spent most of 2 years in minor WD.
finally got to 0.5. Probably a bit more as I was sneaking a little extra 0.125 here and there.
I was going to go to 0.25 but decided to just jump from 0.5 as I thought I could maybe muster the resolve for a weeks worth of WD.
last dose Sun am .
Mon, ok, feeling it but expect it. can do. WD, but moderate. nowhere near full agonist etc
Tue, ok, about the same.
Wed, a bit worse but just ok.
Thur, a bit better.. I think. maybe over the hump??
Fri, actually a little bit better.
Sat, F... WTF, worse. was expecting to be better, not complete but a bit better...please!!
Sat.. weakened and had 0.125, then another 0.125 later on. wished I hadn't as felt over medicated and drowsy.
Sun, Felt much better. Yay!, even went to the gym. thank God this is almost over. was on cloud 9 even though still in mild WD.
Also happened on Sun:
Ive noticed my pupils returning to normal size.. i think? I am very happy about this.
After i finished at the gym yesterday i was in the change room washing my hands. I was checking out my pupils in the mirror but dont completely trust them yet. I needed to check them against a normal persons eyeballs. As i was leaving i tried to see another guys pupils as i walked pass. I had to do it immediately so i could remember how mine are for comparison.
It was difficult as i don't think he wanted to let me look into his eyes for any length of time but i was committed by then so persevered.
Upon leaving it dawned on me i probably shouldn't of been doing this in the gym change room. I think he has just put his pants on as well.
Thought about going back to explain... honestly...i just wanted to checkout your eyeballs. i was on a drug call suboxone and just want to see your normal eyes etc.. thought better to not bother. Will try and avoid him.

I took some testosterone on Fri as I work out and over 45. had given it a miss the previous week as didn't want to waste it as taking the week off the gym for WD. was going to start on Mon again. Do a cycle every few months. was feeling depression set in on Fri.
This help greatly with my mood lifting. felt very positive. I even posted elsewhere raving how good things were going on Sun.

Mon, .....Shit, I thought was ok. actually feel worse of all. almost proper WD? Why did I have that Sub on Sat??
have I just wasted the whole week? Here we go again. Oh no! I cant do this again.
Tue, (today) woke up 4am feeling like shit after 4 hrs sleep. sweating this am. considered today is going to be even worse.
a funny thing happened about 10am. things started to shift. it felt different to what I have felt before. started feeling better and better. like a fever has finally broken. the whole day has been good. a very gentle mild, mild wd just underneath the surface. went to the gym. felt good the whole time?? keep expecting things to revert but have strange feeling im through the door. it is almost a high after feeling the way I was for the last 8 days. it is now late in the pm and no wd have returned.

I think I got a final hard spurt of WD as my system was finally converting over. maybe that's what the prob was on Sat. I should of just ridden it out and seen what happened. like I did today. I've read other people experiencing a similar thing.

on another thing. I keep hearing all this BS about permanent receptor damage if someone has used either Sub or other for years and years. What exquisite kind of hell would this be for the rest of your life. to be in permanent WD? What BS! How can someone possibly say this. Have they actually lived their whole life with this problem. or even know someone. Or are they just repeating some nonsense the heard from some friend and now repeat as gospel over the web. This freaked me out no end while wd over last week. Just because a Dr said it doesn't make it so. I own a medical company and work with Drs so know they are just human like us and have ideas in their heads that may or may not be correct.
Don't believe all the horror stories. you don't know what else people are doing in their lives. I think that most people that have an ok time don't bother posting but the people that are suffering do.

I was so freaked out by most I read and desperately searched for some good news somewhere.
there will be thousands of people that have gotten off SUB and other and have just quietly gone about their now normal live without posting it. you never hear of all the people that do and don't relapse. most like me just want it to disappear into the background (I haven't used for 10)
this is very doable.
A week is shitty. not the weeks/months I've heard about. I am very ok with the state I'm in at the moment and know it will get even better each day. Actually feel like going out and doing something.

will try and remember to post about my day tomorrow. if nothing then all ok. will let you know if any WD come back. expect a tiny amount.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:12 pm 
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c1234,

Just keep hanging on and get some time under your belt. Don't put too much emphasis of what you read online or on forums. There may be one or two addicts out there who've been on heroin for 40 years and are still waiting for their receptors to work correctly again after a year. Hell, I don't know. It's just stuff you read online. It may take a little longer if you've been using for a long time but they will come back. That's why everyone suggests exercise to get them running again.

Keep us informed on how you're doing. Congrats dude.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:33 pm 
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Hi Rule62
Thanks so much for reply and encouragement
I am doing very well. On day 12 and finally got a full 8 hrs sleep last night. Did wake a bunch of times but went straight back.
Day 10 my body temp started to stabilise. Still felt heavy and wild eyed but could feel the wd lifting properly.
I really felt better after protein. Took about 90 mins but every day it took the edge off.
Day 11, i had only managed 3 hrs sleep the night before so was a bit wired. My body temp was rock solid though. Had a 2 hour snooze at midday and the rrst of pm was almost normal. Went to gym, felt good. The heavyness and groggyness has gone
Day 12 today, have woken up feeling absolutely normal and excited to start the day.

If anyone should be having long term receptor probs it should be me. Constant opiate in sysyem for 20 years. Methadone at decent doses etc. After reducing sub to.0.5 over 2 years i am feeling almost 100%.
Dont want to jinx myself though by raving how great things are going in case i feel the damm heat wash over me later. Really doubt it though. Have been improving quicker and quicker over last few days.
This was even with the small. 0.25-0.5. I weakened with on day 6.

While going thru that first week you cant imagine feeling ok ever again and yiu get on the web looking for some ligjt at the end of the tunnel. You see the horror stories and panic that if will feel like thus for weeks and months. Not so.
Also PAWS worried me as i assumed the WS in the title meant more wd. Not so. It is simply what may happen after while feeling completely normal. Out of wack sleeping patterns etc. None of this is a bad prob if not in wd. You feel pretty good so can deal with these things.
I assumed it meant some degree of wd. But no.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:58 pm 
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late pm still day 12. absolutely rock solid. WD completely gone. .but... now it seems I have developed a cold. have a sore throat and a head cold. definitely not part of WD as feel calm, temp regulation perfect. clear headed, have energy back. just now an old fashion cold!.
I think all the pushing through the week has lowered my immune system. I kept going hard at the gym to try and get on top of the wd.
typical...first time off opiates in 10 or more years and I get a cold. well known fact that us opiate people rarely get sick with flu/colds. I think we get them but they just never break through the opiate. so we don't feel sick??
I think ive been sick twice in 10 years.
anyway, happy to have this any day of the week as opposed to wd. still feel great!
don't mean to gloat or anything but there will be people in the middle of wd looking for some hope.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:12 am 
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It's great to hear that you're doing well, and you're right! Someone out there might need the encouragement that reading your thread will bring them. I hope that you will have a great recovery plan in place to take over the work that the sub was doing!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:39 pm 
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I cant thank you enough for sharing your experience. Last time I was in full withdrawal from oxy, I seriously considered death to be a better option than 10 days of accute withdrawal. I came very close to ending my life and leaving 2 children behind that need me, just so I would not have to face the wihdrawal. Ive been on the subs since December 23rd, and I have not been able to get past the fear of what will happen the day my doctor takes me off of them. I have heard hpw much worse it is to withdraw from the subs than full agonist opiates and am scared to death. I am a fibro patient so my doctor now prescribes me the subs for pain when he writes the RX, and states that I could use it indefinitely, but I am stilled freaked out nonetheless. Thank you for providing me some light at the end of the tunnel. I hope you continue to feel better and better each day, and I wish you a wonderful future being 100% opiate free.
CRYS


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Hi Chrystalrain
Dont be like that. It really isnt that bad. Im now day 14 and absolutely normal. F...yes! except for this bloody head cold and sore throat ive developed. Probably from very little sleep through the first week. Nothing to do wd as for the first time in 15 years im sick but comfortable, not sweating and sleeping like a baby. Just head sick. So pissed as want to go back to gym and start enjoying my normal self.
Oh well, still very grateful.
If you taper down to 0.5 or 0.25 and stabilise on this for 3 weeks you will be able to do it. The important thing is to expect a week of feeling a bit shitty. If you can take time off work, try to. Work is doable. I did but run my own company so can do what i want. Lie down and watch tv etc. I bet if you are used to full ag wd then you will really see it is the definition of mild.
The taper gave me the shits over 2 years as always felt in some degree of wd. Days were always ok but never wanted to make plans for afternoon or evening unless i could have a little sub top up. This is what i did to get through.
The first week of no sub is definitely not a state you want to remain in but just think of the week only. Believe me when i say it isnt that bad. You get past it in 6 days or so. Then start feeling better. Even though still in some wd you have past through the door and this gives you much excitement and resolve.
I am a baby with wd and cant stand it but am just on a f...ing high i pushed through.
I too felt like topping myself at various time thru my life. So glad i hadn't as my life took a turn i never expected and got fantastic. This was in the middle of methadone use so you don't need to be off meds for things to change. Just not using.
Guaranteed life wont get to a good place if using. You just dont have time or inclination to think of anything else.
Good luck Girl, C.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Hello! Congratulations on your decision to stop suboxone. Its definitely a difficult thing to rid yourself of!

The main thing with me quitting was keeping myself as busy as possible and doing all the things i had put off for yearsss. I always smoked weed and took oxys for 3 years then started doing suboxone off the street for 2 years and actually did heroine when i couldnt find the suboxone. Which is a bit backwards lol. I started smoking crack for a whole week while doing my suboxone or heroine amd decided i had enough.

I checked into detox. Withdrawals didnt kick in til around the 5th day. Then it was hell for the next week or so!

Luckily i got a job exactly a month, enough to get marijuana out of my system, after i quit suboxone and was able to pass a drug test for the first time in a loooong time. It felt good!

To stay sober i decided i needed to establish a purpose in my life. So i have enrolled in school. Im still not sure what im going to do but its all baby steps right now you need to stay patient when youre getting sober because the damage we have done to our brains takes a looong time to heal. Some longer than others of course.

Its been 6 months Clean and i have nooo desire to go out and get high as i used to. 6 months is huge for me because i hadnt been able to to last even a week without the shit. FUCKING DRUGS MANN.

I always remind myself where i once was so i dont slip. I mainly just read from this forum as a reminder. Its a great place for addicts with tons of support!

So basically the key to my sobriety is establishing a purpose, keeping busy, having some support, excercise has helped, and individual counselling with an addiction therapist has been helpful.

Stay positive and keep up the great work!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:21 am 
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Yes, agree. I haven't used in 10 years or so regard myself as pretty safe. Have no desire to use and haven't for years. Well entrenched in my life. Have a successful business nice house and girlfriend. She is absolutely anti drugs so things will be ok.
Ive always done things on my own anyway.
My rule is i can never have it that one time. I gave up smoking the same way as well 15 years ago.. Understood i couldn't have that one puff. It will surely lead to a second, then a whole cigarette. Then a couple. On and on till a pack a day. No dif to using.
Sometimes giving up drugs can be the easiest thing and the hardest thing.
All it takes is to not do it. We do have a choice to not take something.
Not like medical diseases where you have to hope to get better or receive treatment.
Sometimes just not doing something is all it takes.
Anyway, easier said than done sometimes...i surely know.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:03 am 
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Hi C1234. Thanks so much for taking time to personally reply to me. I don't have much support at home, so all of my encouragement comes from my addiction counselor, the group sessions offered by my sub clinic, and this forum. It is so nice to see posts like yours for those of us that are still fairly new to recovery and Suboxone. I spend so much time worrying about what the taper and final jump is going to be like, and this is wasted negative energy that should be used on my recovery. My life has definitely improved since I have been on the subs, but with the jump always being in mind I don't feel that I am utilizing my recovery to the fullest extent. My doctor prescribes 16 mg a day, and I can break it up as I wish to manage chronic pain, but I find myself using only the bare minimum so the day he says "taper" I can be a step ahead of the game. May I ask what your taper schedule was from beginning to end, and did you have any wd symptoms from each dose reduction? You just seem to have handled it so well, and I only hope that I will be able to be as strong as you have been when the day comes. By the way, I hope your cold is going away and that you are feeling healthy and normal. After a week of withdrawal, you were awarded with a virus......that's no fun. I haven't really been sick for 8 years either. Not sure how that phenomenon works but its crazy to live in a house full of people with strep throat and the flu, and I get a mild sore throat and cough for a day or two and that's the extent of it. I didnt mean to turn your post into all about me, but really just wanted you to know that your experience did provide some resolve for me, and to let you know how much I appreciate that. I am so glad that at day 14 you are completely past the red zone, and living happily opiate free. What an accomplishment!! Thanks again for sharing your story, and easing my mind a bit. I would love to hear how you are doing in the next few weeks so please post if you have the time. Congratulations!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Hi Crystalrain
No prob. I was on 80mg methadone for 15 years. Also using on top. Got serious about getting off and reduced methadone over 2 years to 20mg. Then switched to 4mg sub. It basically held me but i didn't want to go to 6 so after a couple weeks it was ok. My dr said it was easy to go from 4 to 2 to 0. He was wrong. I tried going to 4 from 2 but was in wd by 10am.
I then started reducing by small amounts. 0.5 a week or sometime a fortnight. There was a plan to do weekly but just held sometimes. Don't push too hard. Its not worth it. It can be gentle on you.
I found each reduction had settled in by the end of the week. On the doses under 1 mg i reduced by 0.25. As a rule of thumb reduce by 20%. So from 16 you could try maybe 14. If too much have 1 mg more and just do 15. Do this every 2 weeks or more. Try a bigger reduce and see what happens. Dont forget on the higher doses it will takes longer to come of the receptors due to so much of it disengaging slowly. Thus allow 2 weeks each drop. Or more. Not a race. The point is to be as comfortable as possible.
Have a break from reducing every now and then to regain mental strength. It can wear you down. Just dont up the dose for more than a day. Take a few weeks off from reducing here and there.
I did used to get really frustrated and angry though. Something about sub that did this to me??
I also didn't want to it to interfere with my life too much so if i needed to be out in the evening i would have a little.0.5 top up or less when on the lower doses.
It didn't seem to stuff up the taper. As long as you don't do for days in a row. It will for sure revert you to that dose.
I just took my time. Had a 3 month break during my really busy season. I could have reduced sooner.
I have heard that the higher doses like your 16mg can be reduced by higher amounts. Just experiment. No prob if reduce by too much, just have a little bit more and see what happens. You may be surprised.
I also used to get very dejected when first starting taper as every bit seemed to be noticeable but the lower i got the less the wd were. Still there but not that horrible stuff.
If you haven't experienced sub wd then dont think it is like the full ag wd. It isn't. It has the same symptoms just less. It gets to a point but no worse. We panic and think...shit, here we go, now its starting. but this is the limit.
Yes, still have my cold. Unbelievable! All weekend sick. Better than wd though.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Day 16. Shit... oh no!
Just joking. All is back to normal. Feel really good. Except for this damm cold i still have. Nevertheless i sucked it up and went to the gym yesterday.
Its good. For the first time in 5 years i dont have to consider if ill be ok to do something in the afternoon or night. Don't need to consider whether wd going to be an issue.
I used to see the people going to the gym at 6pm and think how the hell do they feel like doing it.
When naturally stable all day its no issue what time you can do things.
So used to being in some sort of mild wd it is a new thing im getting used to.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:25 pm 
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c1234.

It is so great to know you're doing relatively okay. The majority goes through a lot worse so I hope no one hates the fact that you did it w/o all the miserable side effects. The one thing I'm waiting for is PAWS. It is my hope that you won't get it but that will take some time to find out.

Think positive and it won't come knocking on your door.

So how are you feeling today? Congrats!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:51 am 
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Hey c1234,

I just read your posts and found myself cracking up at the description of your checking out the guys eyes in the locker room. LOL. That's too funny!

Must remember to avoid him at all costs!

Keep up the good work, thanks for the positive post!

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Hi All.
Day 17. I think? Not really sure as i weakened on day 6 and that may of stuffed up a day and a half. Doesnt really mater as all good. I think my cold has finally broken after 5 days! That really gave me the shits. Been out of action 3weeks including wd.
Definitely no wd after approx 10 days. Had much improvement after day 7. Then just a steady increase pretty quickly.
I think it worked out ok was i got down to a low dose 0.5 and hung there fir a couple weeks. I noticed that when i went to this from 0.75 my pupils started relaxing a bit. I assume the sub was near to out of my system or getting to the point of not being strongly effective??
I jumped at higher than i was going to as the end was so near and just wanted it done. I was going to jump from 0.25 but just thought to see how bad. Could always go to 0.25 if too rough. Once i was in it i got excited and realised so close and to just push through.
The only thing that ruined things was reading accounts of 2 month wd etc.if i had of known roughly 5 days moderately shit then getting ok fast i would of been happier. Thus these posts for you.

I do sort of miss getting up in the am having my sub and lying in bed before having a coffee waiting for it to work.
It is like having to say goodbye to a girlfriend moving overseas. You miss her but know its for the best and will get over it.
Funny how the things you never expect happen. Just habit being broken i suppose. Once up and going all ok.
Not going to research paws as just going to get on with life and not look for symtoms i may or may not have. I may find them?
As ling as i feel normal and not in wd i dont care abiut the rest and can deal with anything that comes up.
If you want me to post i will. May check in a a couple days.
Also, after successfully getting off sub people are not so obsessed with it anymore so dont bother posting and searching so much. I wouldn't assume they have relapsed etc.
Im in Australia by the way. Time is 5am
Having coffee in bed and posting....instead of waiting for sub to work.
Peace!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Cheers Rule
I think i got off relatively ok was because i did a very slow taper and jumped at a low dose. I held at each reduction for quite a bit. It took me 2 years to reduce from 4mg. Admittedly i did stall here and there. Also didn't reduce over Christmas and another 3 month period from march to may.
I certainly didn't get off scott free though. But it was definitely not too bad, just a bit wearing. Seems to take a while but moderate.
I really think the fast tapers i see posted are basically luke stopping cold turkey. They seem to go over a month only...or less.
I would imagine that at doses over 8 mg it would take 5 days to even start disengaging from receptors before wd start and the slow process of repair starts.
Just my idea, dont know for sure as never on over 4mg. We all realise how strong this stuff is.
I think the wd are all relative. There is a certain amount to pay. Either mildly over a longer time or hard over a short time. I think the net amount is the same. I prefer the gentle way. But then the time factor wears on you. At least there is something apart from nothing or methadone.
Ive been experiencing wd for 20 years on all opiates. Sub has its benefits for sure. The time factor is what confuses us. We are not used to a slightly longer but milder wd so frustrates us. After being on sub for a while we forget what wd are really like and get used again to being stable. I found that anything less than this stable feeling was horrible. Not really fair as have to expect something.
Receptor repair can be a bitch.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:25 pm 
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One thing ive noticed is bloody hair trigger orgasym. This a pain. Does anyone have any idea if and or how ling things take to get back to normal? Ive not had this prob since my early 20's. Almost dont want to have sex because of it.
I do expect in the very short-term as everything is overly sensitive.
Sex hasnt been a problem for a long time and could always hang for as long or as short as the situation warranted. Almost prided myself on it. Good control etc.
In fact it was my main 'drug' the filthier the better. GF absolutely down with it!
Feel like a bloody 17 y/o at the moment.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:15 pm 
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Day 20. Pretty normal. Been sleeping properly last couple nights. Head cold finally almost gone.
A little lack of energy but wouldn't of noticed it if wasnt searching for symptoms. Making sure i go to the gym every day. This certainty lifts energy levels for most of day afterwards
I can report all wd completely gone. Have been from basically day 10.
Very rarely i would get a little touch of heat but it would come and go in literally 20 seconds. Happened twice in 3 days only. The dog had given me the shits both times though. My big german shepherd pulling the lead and me almost over with him. Stress will bring it on.
Anyone with long term opiate use dont worry about the BS re permanent receptor damage. I should have if anyone should. All normal and feel great at 20 days. Did at 10.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Day 24. Nothing to really report. All ok. This bloody cold is still hanging around a bit though. Makes me think maybe it masked some of symptoms? Absolutely normal, no wd at all. Just a little lack of energy. Thus not sure if it because of the cold. Heaps of people have at the moment and general consensus is it lasts for 2 weeks.
Been going to the gym every day. This is a must!
The lack if energy is nothing as not associated with that same wd lack of energy. Just a mild tiredness. Easy to deal with. Its good to be free! Cant believe i am doing stuff in the late pm. Would never even consider hitting the gym then as was always is some sort of wd while tapering for 2 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Day 24. Just getting back into normal life.
I had ti write something else in the post as i accidentally posted the same message twice and cant delete it, only edit.


Last edited by c1234 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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