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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:44 pm 
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PAWS is post acute withdrawal. It usually happens after the acute withdrawals are over (the physical yucky stuff) and can range from depression, lethargy, somber moods and such.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:21 pm 
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..well since your tolerance is low then yes, I would cut that film in half to 1mg.then cut the 1mg in half to .50. Go slow. Mabe an hour in between doses to how you feel and how quickly your wd simptoms disapate.
After you stablize on wd, then you ll have to see how your cravings are and your pain level.
Kate this may take a day or more to stablize. It ll be ok. Wd first, then cravings plus pain relief.

PAWS... ya as Trainer said it is a time period after someone gos off opiates of any kind.
At this point I wouldnt worry to much about paws right now.
Thats down the road imo. If ever.

You will be fine Kate. Hang in there.

Now you are doing this induction withoutvthe dr, am I correct here?
Your doing this at home yourself??

Just asking....razor


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Insurance figured out...yeah! They are going to pay till the end of November. Don't know why such a short time, but the doctors office said that we will start the appeal process in October to make sure I don't have to go without or have to go back on the percs.
so tomorrow is my day...I'm going to do it. Nervous and ready all in one. I did think of another question for ya'll too...weight gain/loss. I know with some of my meds that I take for my addisons disease I struggle with weight gain, but have been on them for going on 6 years so I've figured out how not to pack on the pounds. Is there going to be a gain or loss that I'll notice with the suboxone?
and I decided to take your advice, razor and start with cutting the strip in half and see how it works there starting out...probably better to start with less and work up than take the whole dose and realize it might be too much.
thanks yall...happy Monday
Kate


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Hey kate,
Well ok, here ya go!!
You ll be fine if you are in moderate wd, remember this please.
Good news on ins. Sounds like you have a good dr sn staff to work with so far.
Weight, well that depends on who your talking to, but I thined out the first 6 months. Stopped drink alcohol. But was eating more .so folks say it can put weight on. Some dont..not sure really..
Kate, yes, cut film in half. Making it 1mg..THEN cut it again..50mg.
Ok? Just playing it safe. It seems to me your tolerance is low. So low dose to start..

It ll be good!!!

Razor


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:04 pm 
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So today is day one and I took 1/2 at 9am and the other half at 3. I slept on and off most of the day till 3pm. I don't know if it was because I didn't sleep much last night (I have an elderly dog who suffers from seizures...so last night neither one of us slept much...she had a bad night). I'm not feeling any withdraw symptoms, I don't feel great...kinda cruddy...but nothing like I was working up in my mind. I think I made it worse than it turned out to be. But, also reading on here day 4 and 5 seem to be bad ones. So I guess I have to wait and see. Tomorrow I have a follow up with my doctor...I don't know how much I'll have to report since today is only day one. I'm really hoping for a smooth transition, I've had no cravings today. But again it's only day one and I don't want to get ahead of myself.
Is it good that I made it till 3 on a half? I started to have muscle aches...nothing like the RLS we've all experienced, but was starting to not feel great so I took the other half.
so...I've started my journey and am ready for the first week to pass so I truly know how it feels. I'm not going to lie though...I've got a bottle of 15 norcos hidden in my closet. Why am I holding on to them? I know its stupid, I feel strong enough to not use them...but I'm worried that I'll have a craving and not be able to handle it or have a really bad WD and not be able to handle it...its just the fear of the unknown and probably stupidity on my part. What would you do...get rid of them?
I do feel a nap comming on so I'll let you know how I'm feeling later.
thanks everyone!
Kate


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Hey ya'll...I am just overwhelmingly tired. I have that feeling you get when (best example I can think of...) is you haven't worked out in a long time and you push it too far and your whole body is tired from head to toe. Also, I ache, like I'm fighting off the flu.
Of course the neck pain (my chronic pain from the buldging discs) is very prominent, but my whole body is very achy. Is that a form of WD symptom? I don't know if I've been truly sleeping today or in and out and just been resting with my eyes closed because I do remember hearing the tv on in the background. Oh, well...either way my 2 complaints are super tired and achy. I'd say all in all, that's not too bad. But as I said before, I've read a lot about anywhere from day 3 to 5 are the bad ones. Why is it like that, why the delay effect?
I know I think I'm repeating myself a lot, but just getting it out makes me feel better. Ya'll really are just awesome for being here for me. Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:41 pm 
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So what im getting here is you have taking 2mgs today, right.
And you feel cruddy I think you said.
You are achey. ?

Suboxone, at the correct dose will make you feel normal.
You arent there yet.another half to a whole film may be in order now.
You didnt go into PW's, so a little more should help imo. At least from what im reading here from you.
The narco, well, I wont tell you to toss them, but I wouldnt have them on handif it were me, and it was me back wheni began. On subs kate those pills Wont Work. Its the blocking effect of the med. No cravings and no wd. Those are the three things Suboxone will do at the right stable dose for you.
And this day 3,4 an 5, im confused. Theres nothing bad then really. Maybe your confused about WD days?
Not sure what you mean there..
Glad your seeing your Dr tomarrow.
Please ask him all the questions you have. Your on a very low dose of sub now. You can go up. See what he/she says about this too..

Hang in there Kate, your on your way!!!

Razor...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:46 pm 
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..and Kate, wer here to help so
ask questions if you need too..



Razor


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:53 pm 
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So on the right dose of suboxone I shouldn't have any carvings and today I havent. So the norcos won't work at all? I guess I was just keeping them in case.
so this overwhelming tiredness I was feeling all day today...is that going to continue or do you think that my body will eventually even out? The only symptoms I'm having so far is achy feeling like I have the flu and my stomach is starting to act up, but the stomach issues I expected. Its just unfortunate that I've got IBS (irritable bowel, syndrome) on top if this. But I do have really good tummy meds.
So I guess that tomorrow I need to talk about dosage manly. I'm sure for the next week its going to be trial and error.
what I was saying about the 4/5 day mark is that I was reading that some people really struggled with symptoms of WD on their 4th or 5th day. It was just worrying me because I don't feel any of those horrible WD symptoms that I was so sure I was going to go thru today.
I'm just ready to close my eyes and hopefully sleep thru the night. I took a 2.5 mg strip at about 9:15 and for some reason I'm more wide awake right now than I have been all day
I do have a question about alcohol. I've never had a problem with drinking. I can go out and have a couple of drinks or I can go out and get rip roaring drunk. I'm not a huge drinker, and I drank on Percocet and never had a problem. Is there any difference with drinkng and suboxone? I only ask is because this Friday I'm supposed to go out with the gals and get drinks. None of them know about my little pill problem, and I'd like to keep it that way.
thanks razor...goodnight


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:11 pm 
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I'm going to agree with razor here Kate, and say that perhaps your dose isn't high enough to cover all of your withdrawal symptoms/cravings for the duration that it should. It sounds like you are still experiencing some WD. As razor said, 2 mgs isn't a very high dose, so it shouldn't hurt to go up a bit and see how you feel. The goal of bupe, is for you to feel normal, with no withdrawal or cravings. The sleepiness you described is common in the very beginning for some,but usually subsides fairly quickly.

It's not advised to drink a lot of alcohol while taking suboxone because of the increased cns depression, but I don't think a drink or two will hurt as long as you dont over do it. although many people find that they completely lose their taste or desire for alcohol after starting subs. S Happy side effect Imo. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:25 pm 
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the 3/4/5 day thing is I was reading thru a bunch of different posts and came across that people experienced WD symptoms the greatest on their 3-5 day. I was just curioius about that happening.
Right now though, I'm having pain. Lots of pain...these are the times that I would pop a couple of pills and feel better. I'm worried about my chronic pain thru all of this. I know that suboxone is supposed to work well with chronic pain, does it take time to start working...could I possibly need a higher dose of suboxone to help with the pain?but there lies the great circle...I'm subistuting suboxone for Percocet...in the end, isn't it the same?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:04 am 
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Lets go back to the begining..
Why are you switching to suboxone?
Who thought it was what you needed? You? Your dr? Family member
Pain reliv is a hit and miss with suboxone Kate. Pain level has alot to do with it.
Frankly, sub isnt the greatest pain med. It is wonderful for opiate addiction . Blocks other opiates. Cravings and est of all Withdraw.

Please ask you dr tomarrow. This is important to your overall wellness kate.
Wer cheering for you here. Sub very well mqy be your answer. Give it some time. Your just getn started.

Drinking and sub? Hmmmm...i tried twice..it sucked..great side effect as lizz said ..cant beleive after 36 YEARS i dont even Want to drink..haha....

Razor......


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:10 am 
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Kate, yes it takes a little time!! Once you get the right dose stabilized it will do wonders for most of the pain. I remember in the beginning I was saying to my husband "how the hell am I supposed to do this if I'm in so much pain" If you have a few hours (haha) go look at my thread under intros. A hundred and some posts but you can literally see the progression!! I had the same up and down feelings about suboxone. It works, it just takes a little time to adjust to. Don't be afraid to tell the doc you need an increased dose, you can always lower it if you feel like its too much down the road. Am I reading right that your dose is 2mg? Don't worry, it will get better, for sure get all the pain pills out of the house, get rid of any contacts' numbers that you got pills from, you may encounter a weak moment and better that you have no access to them till it passes.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:09 pm 
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So the doctor and I had a good conversation today.
Razor...it was somewhat of a mutual decision between the doctor and I that I had been taking Percocet for 5 plus years and the dose just kept going up and up. As my tolerance increased I would take more pills. I've always gotten them from doctors, never from other people...always from a script.
we discussed my pain and how well suboxone can control pain. So, where I am, is that the Dr put me on the 4mg strips 3 times a day (that's the way he wrote the script) but what we discussed is that I can cut them in half to have the 2mg when I need it...taking the 2mg in the morning and afternoon and then in the evening/night when I notice that I have more pain to take the 4mg. He said that the sleepiness will work its self out as my body gets `used` to the medicine. (I don't know that is the right choice of words, but I think you know what I mean.)
Emmy, I know your right that I just need to get rid of the norcos. I get it now that even if I took them, it wouldn't do anything.
But, of course with the increase in dosage today I'm in another fight with the insurance company. So, I have a 7 day supply of the 2mg 0.5mg strips and the doc sais that at night for now I can cut one in half and take the 1 and half strip at night. I just wish that my insurance company was a little more forgiving...even the pharmacist made the comment that you'd think they would be happier that I'm not on the narcotics anymore, but those little suckers aren't cheap (the strips).
I do have another question though...as far as ultram (tramadol) goes, I know that its a non narcotic pain med...right? If I'm right and its not a narcotic can it be taken with the suboxone when I need (best way I can explain is) if I need the extra pain relief. I struggle with endometriosis, which is very painful in the lady parts...a build up of scar tissue...very painful. (Razor...I'm sure you love hearing about this) but during my cycle I have pain that goes way beyond just menstrual cramps. So, from my gyno I have a script for the ultram. I completely forgot to ask today if its even allowd and wheather or not it would work....so if ya'll know the answer or even have any suggestions that would be awesome.
Today was a good day, really wasn't as tired and I mentally feel better today.
thanks yall...I appreciate your words more than you know!!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:16 pm 
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Kate,

So glad to hear your day was better.the dr is right, getting "used"to the medicine is just stablizing. And you will.i do hope it takes care of your pain problems.
Sorry bout your girly pain there.ah, ya, a bit hard to read).ha...
Your doing fine it sounds and moving forward. Your dr sounds good. Some dont..

Ultam, it works as a opiate in the receptor area, but im ALMOST sure sub blocks this med also..I just cant seem to remember for sure. Maybe Lizz or Amy will come aloug.. ill look around here and find out.
Your doing great kate. Congrats, really..
Im on 6 mgs a day myself, twice a day. Keeps my pain lower and depression at bay..so..

Keep posting and asking, thats what wer all here for...

razor....


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:34 pm 
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I completely understand the issues with endometriosis. It caused me many surgeries,that failed and ended up with my having a total hysterectomy and right salpingo oopherectomy (removal of right fallopian tubes and ovary). For years of my addiction, my constant pain from my condition,and multiple misdiagnoses resulted in many opioid prescriptions, including tramadol which was effective until tolerance took over, because of my compulsion to take more, and anti anxiety meds, and anti depressants. Tramadol, while not a total opiate med, has effects at opiate receptors, and has serious abuse and addictive potential, so I'm not really sure if that will help your pain without being blocked by the sub. I know of another member who had a serious addiction to tramadol, who may answer your questions about it better. I think I remember Amy saying that she found pain relief with a very similar medication called nucynta( sorry if I'm wrong Amy). In the mean time, along with the pain relief that sub can achieve, otc pain relievers can be very helpful until your gynecologist uses any other approaches to treat your endo. You may pm me with specific questions about possible effective treatments if you like, (i do know of some that you can speak with your dr about,and unfortunately,I'm pretty well versed in this arena of female health), so as to keep the conversation as "girly talk" free on open forum for the dudes,lol! so, if it were me,I'd continue with the suboxoneand some kind of otc or non opiate/non addictive approach to pain relief, until Dr. Does something for your endometriosis. I truly understand how painfula condition that is. I'm addition to endo, I had post ablation pain from scar tissue trapping "fluid" in the uterus, and chronic ovarian cysts, & horribly painful ovulation that caused me to miss entire days of work and life. It wasa tough decision to have a hysterectomy at 32, but it did end the chronic pain but unfortunately, the addiction consistently progressed, as very very early menopause commenced and my life fell apart completely. I'm so glad those miserable years of my life are over now! I still go havea degree of pain in my remaining(non functioning) ovary ,but it is well taken care of with ibuprofen. I'm ñ however not sure if nsaids are appropriate for your pain though due to increased bleeding risks. You should absolutely speak to your doctor if the bupe doesn't provide the pain relief you require.

I've blabbered on long enough and hope you got something out of it:) also, your dose is fairly low and your doctor's dosing recommendation seems reasonable to me, so I'd sick with it and the side effect of tiredness should subside quickly as toy tolerance build to the ceiling of bupe. That's part of the beauty andefficacy if buprenorphine, once a stable dose is achieved, no additional tolerance and subsequent dose increases are necessary. How wonderful to escape that trap, no? Please keep posting,and we'll continue to try to help you as much as possible.


Last edited by lizzieshug2013 on Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:23 am 
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I was thinking of suggesting OTC pain relievers as well. Something as simple as aleve or Motrin can really help! You'll be surprised how much they can help once you're not taking Percs anymore! Glad today went well, you're doing good!! I used a lot of ice packs in the beginning too, until my pain was under control. Now I barely ever use them, I used them ALL the time when I was on oxys and Percs so it just goes to show how suboxone has really helped with my pain, better then constantly taking more and more of the pain killers!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:27 pm 
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I can concur on the ice packs while on the percs. I used them always...without much relief actually. But now the ice pack works really well. I saw my GP today and I had forgot to write down the med you thought worked for Amy...but my doc put me on mobic. He said it was a pretty good non narcotic pain med. The pharmacist said to start with one and if it didn't work that it was ok to take 2.
I have no relief from it at all. Do ya'll know anything about this med?
Also, my doctor said that celebrex was a good pain relief med for what my pain is. Any advice about celebrex?
so, while I'm still waiting for the insurance company to decide if they're going to give me the 4mg strips do ya'll think that it would be ok to take my whole 2mg 0.5mg strip and a half tonight...and if as far as pain goes, if I feel I need more to take the other half?
I feel like I'm jugeling and balancing. I'm hoping that the 4mg strips will get approved and I can easily just take anywhere from the 2 to the 4mg as I need for the pain, instead of trying to figure what's going to work for what.
Tomorrow I am going to have a mini procedure in the Dr office (in a nut shell, scraping on the insides of my lady parts) so I know I'm going to be sore and that's what the mobic is supposed to help with.
I am though going to look up the nucynta to see what that is and possibly suggest that one.
thanks ya'll hope everyone had a great thurs. ..on a higher note, the subs aren't making me just over tired like I was.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:27 am 
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I may have had that procedure your speaking if it is called nova sure? Or endometrial ablation? If so, you may be a bit sore, but in my experience it wasn't too bad, and tylenol took care of the soreness that lasted about two days. This procedure actually reward my symptoms for about a year or a little more. PM me for more info, as I believe I have info that could be helpful to you from all my experience in this particular arena, without blabbing all the chick stuff in open forum. lol


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:55 am 
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Hey Kate, just checking in to see how you're doing. How is the 2mg working for you? Or has the insurance company approved the 4mg? Just wanted to see how you're making out so far, hopefully you're getting to a stable dose that's helping with the pain as well. Hope to hear from you and that you're getting some relief from the pain! :)
~Emmy

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