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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:19 am 
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Yes, it can be dangerous to take sub with benzos, but in the end it's up to your doctor. Some doctors won't allow it AT ALL. They can both depress the respiratory system - that's the danger. That said, I've never heard of having to allow a certain amount of time between dosing them. Just make sure your sub doc knows about it and the dose you're on.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:21 am 
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You can take benzos just don't abuse them there both CNS depresents so they can stop breathing I am taking Valium for muscle spasams I'm having a fusion in 2 weeks back to the opiets but just have to know when enuff is enuff right well I have heard of people going hours away from home to get there meds but thats up to you most only want to see you once amoth after first few visits I do wish you luck man give a private message if you need to any thing I can do to help.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:13 am 
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So does that just mean the same thing that methadone clinics want. They all would PREFER to have us off all bz's, but when anxiety runs your life, then add the anxiety of detoxing on top of that, I need high BP meds to keep me under 150/90. I understand that Sub and methadone are CNS dpressants, but is one MORE of a depressant than the other? I get my BP checked a few times a week, usually a few hours after getting dosed and having my meds in me, and I never had shallow breathing or a slow heart rate. Is this more of a caution than a rule?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:51 pm 
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I am not a doctor, but I would think that you would be able to take the same medications on Suboxone as you do on Methadone. Methadone after all, is also a very powerful CNS depressant, and plenty of people have died as a result of taking too much of it. As long as you take them as ordered and don't take too much, I would think that there'd be little or no difference between the two.

There is something that exists called the Reckitt Benckiser Suboxone Patient Assistance Program. Would you be eligible for this? If so, I would call them to check into it further and see if you could get some help from them. I think that they can help you if you make less than a given amount of money depending upon the size of your family. I know that my doctor helps people on this program, but I don't know very many details. They have a website, however, so maybe you could check it out. I always feel that if there's a will, there's a way. Somehow.

I am fortunate in that I have insurance which does pay for my treatment. It seems much more cost effective than paying for rehab and all of the consequences of an active addiction, so you would think that more programs would be willing to assist with the costs of Sub treatment. I am very grateful for this and know that I am one of the lucky ones.

I had the understanding, and perhaps I am wrong, that you have to be off Methadone for 72 hours and then you can start Sub. The only problem with this is, how the hell do you get through the 72 hours? I hope that everything will work out for you and that you will continue to pursue the option of trying the Sub if at all possible. At least in the meantime you still have access to the Methadone clinic.

~Rossma


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:09 pm 
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There is info on the Patient Assistance Program under the "Links" section on the main index page. It's for people who are uninsured, and like Rossma said, make less than a certain amount of income. Each doctor is allowed 3 patients on the program. Good luck!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:03 pm 
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my first experience with buprenorphine failed and I went back on morphine.
normally I would blame the doctor I had back then(2006-2008)after all he was
ignorant and below average intelligence relative to average doctors,but I look
at things differently now;I've been on subutex for four months this time around
and I am convinced that buprenorphine maintenance is what one makes of it individually.
if the individual is on subutex/suboxone and ambivalent or unconvinced about the value of
such treatment then most likely that person will fail----if ambivalent attitude is not dealt with.
and that is where a 'good doctor' can and should play a vital role and help the individual resolve
his/her uncertainty.I think that the ambivalence surrounding buprenorphine as a legitamate treatment
for addiction is directly linked to the type of doctors that decide to get involved.In my limited experience
buprenorphine treatment attracts below average doctors or above average doctors with few in between.it is the
patients responsibility to find a good one.I spent almost two years complaining about the shitty treatment I received
from this doctor and I look back on it and wonder at my level of denial.
by the way I was on 120mg of valium per day while taking 32mg buprenorphine --I no longer take valium and I lowered
my buprenorphine dose to 8mg


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:47 am 
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Thank you guys for the financial info. I will check into that today. Ooohhh, 3 whole patients! WOW!!! Just kidding. Sounds like something this country would do. Nothing like throwing a rediculous number like that out there. Off-topic, but I heard the other day that the Oxy's made from now on are almost impossible to either shoot or snort because of the binders in them. I've been saying they should change the consistancy since they first came out. It was like they were made to snort. How bout some common sense, people. Sadly, nothing shocks me anymore. I wouldn't be suprised if they already have a webpage to show how to get those binders out of the pill. Why not, they have sites that show you how to get high on anything from cough syrup to flowers growing in your garden. All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not growing up in this generation or I wouldn't stand a chance.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:21 am 
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Sorry to ignore anyones ?'s. As for getting help w/unemployment, I used all mine up. I worked in the granite countertop business. That's where all the "non-residents" work. Once one gets in, he brings his friends along, and if we were to complain about raises,(which we did), they'd tell us to find another job if we didn't like our wage, then go hire another illegal. Watched it happen too many times. And yes, they would prefer you to be off methadone for 3 days, but I've heard that some dr's won't make you wait that long. Worst case, those Phenergan pills are magic. They take all the sickness away, and the Clonidine stops all the fidgiting and moving around, with both of them causing drowsiness. Then w/my Klonopin, I think I could just sleep the days away. I pretty much got lucky and stumbled on the Phenergan, (promethazine), and Clonidine.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:09 am 
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I think the phrase you're looking for is "undocumented immigrant"...You're pretty angry, aren't you? I agree with what Diary said above about your anger being misdirected.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:50 am 
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I agree. Although I'm not angry, if that's how I sound, just astonished :shock: . This topic went from a question to, let's just say "irritation or dry humor", so lets get back to the main? I have wondered if Suboxone works for everyone like methadone is suppose to, but standing in line today, I mentioned that I was going to switch, and the two kids behind me said Suboxone didn't work for them. Granted, when I asked what their dose was, they said," 3 times a day". I asked again, getting the same response, so I phrased it differently, asking how many mg's of Sub they were on daily. Both said 24mg's, (8mg's,3x's/day), but never went up. I have heard that it doesn't work for all from more than a few people, but was wondering if this is an old wives-tale or truth. I believe what EIGHTMILESHIGH said, if your mind isn't ready, you won't make it. They kids who mentioned the Suboxone not working looked young, maybe they didn't hit rock-bottom yet. I remember when I was their age, I wanted to get clean until I realised how much work it was going to take, so I did just enough to dig out a little. It took a few years to understand that it's a lifestyle change, not just that I needed to stay away from drugs. It's the triggers that sneak up on us, and we need to know what they are and find ways around them, IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:19 pm 
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I believe methadone can still be abused and can still get the person high. Maybe those two kids tried sub and realized they couldn't get high off it? I could be WAY off, but that's what came to mind. I've been on this site for a year and a half and have never heard of sub not working on anyone - although I guess I'm not sure what "not working" means. It quells the cravings and stops withdrawals. Of course anything's possible, but I don't understand how it wouldn't work.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:49 pm 
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That's a huge load off my shoulders. I guess when they said it didn't work, they meant it didn't stop the cravings? Standing in line at the clinic everyday, everybody seems to know everything, but never first-hand. Always someone they knew. But I ask this because I have heard people say this quite a few times over the years at methadone clinics. It's one of the reasons I waited until the last minute to detox, then to switch over. One person will say that it didn't work for their friend, then someone else will say the same thing about someone they know, and w/in a couple minutes there are 3 or 4 people saying the same thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:21 pm 
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The way suboxone gets rid of cravings is by occupying the opiate receptors in the brain. I look at it this way - suboxone handles the "physiological" cravings and what is often left over are normal psychological cravings. Sub can't NOT remove those physiological cravings, because they occur when our opiate receptors are not occupied. So when we take sub at or above the ceiling then the brain doesn't want any more. This is what I mean by I don't understand how it doesn't work. Until we stop thinking like addicts, we might have remaining psychological cravings. Keep in mind this is just my theory...nothing official. Maybe this helps?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:14 pm 
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I agree with everything you said, and it does make sense. Seems to be pretty simple on the way it works, like the way opiates do. I suppose if methadone and Suboxone are fighting for the same receptors, it wouldn't matter, as long as they'are filled. Although these "kids" do go to the methadone clinic, and unless they are skipping days, or their dose is super high,( anything higher than 150mg's and we have to get a peak and trough test), I can't see them getting high off that. Maybe they were expecting a magic pill? All I know is you put my mind as ease. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:47 am 
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I know that there are some people who legitimately DO benefit more from methadone than from Suboxone, but from what I have read and/or heard, those are typically people who have been on full agonist opiates/oids for many, many years, and who may possibly not be able to function well or comfortably without a full agonist in their system at all times. Most of them have resigned themselves to being on a full agonist for the rest of their lives, which is absolutely fine if that is what makes their lives manageable, and what they need to be productive.

With these 'kids' that you refer to, well, I would think that they are probably still wanting to get high. Their high doses of Suboxone would indicate to me that perhaps they may have been chasing a 'high', as someone else mentioned. Not that all people who are on high doses of Sub ARE chasing a high; some people need it for chronic pain as well. But I am highly suspicious of young people who are on that high of a dose. Either they were chasing a buzz, or they were experiencing the negative side effects of Buprenorphine, which mainly occur at higher doses, as (for whatever reason, although the nalaxone is supposed to be inert when the medication is taken properly) do those of the nalaxone in people who are sensitive to it. So I would think that had these kids actually given their medication the proper opportunity to 'work', and had they researched the way that buprenorphine functions at high/low doses and adjusted their doses accordingly, then they might have fared a bit better while on Suboxone/ Subutex.

Since Methadone is a full agonist, there is no ceiling level, so people who aren't using their Methadone as they should be (to quell cravings and avoid withdrawal) can still get SOME sort of extra feeling out of upping their dose, and they can do so by simply saying that their current dose isn't taking care of their cravings.

Shit I write a lot to say something that can be summed up in one sentence/ paragraph. I need to work on that. And being repetitive. Anyway, Suboxone likely WILL work for you as you are ready to stop using opiates, and you are done chasing a high, or maintaining a constant level of opiates in your system. Don't worry; if you are ready and willing to this, then Suboxone will very likely work for you. I think that it is obvious that you are ready. Those 'kids' didn't like Suboxone as a maintenance program. You aren't intending to use it for that, so don't equate yourself with them:) You'll do just fine.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:30 am 
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Coming from someone with a massive anxiety problem, you both knocked my anxiety level down a few notches. THANK YOU SO MUCH. Now I need to find a dr. that will prescribe buprenorphin. I found a CVS that costs $250.00 for (60) 8mg pills, (almost $600.00 for Subutex). I'm guessing my monthly dose would be somewhere around there. Even if it's more, it was still costing me $420.00 every month @ the methadone clinic, and I had to go there every day. This way I don't have to hurry as much. It sure does pay to shop around. Shaws wants $412.00 for the same thing! Right now I'm still working on stabalizing @ 32mg's before dropping again, so I still got a little more time to go. In this race, the turtle always wins :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:07 pm 
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If it makes you feel any better, my first Sub doc - who was the head of addiction services/psychiatry at the local VA - told me that he had many methadone patients who switched to Suboxone and felt much better after the switch; they had had lingering depression issues, cravings, and general malaise on methadone that went away after they switched to Suboxone. He was really excited about the possible antidepressant effetcs of buprenorphine and told me that he had more than a few people who switched from methadone to Sub and said the felt like they could think clearly for the first time in years.

I hope you will have a good experience with your switch as well. Also, I apologize for my earlier off-topic rant, I don't know what was up my butt that day but thanks for taking it with good humor.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:23 pm 
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I actually wondered if I needed to get onto an anti-depression med as I'm detoxing off methadone, but think I'll wait after reading what you wrote. I've had nothing but bad experiences w/quite a few of them. As I said earlier, I suffer massive anxiety, so I've been on EVERY anti-depression med known to man before they finally switched me to Xanax, which was made for me. No side-effects at all. I only went to Klonopin because being on it before, I know that it makes me sleepy, which isn't good for everyday things, but as of now, I'll take anything that helps me sleep/relax. Plus Klonopin stays in the system much longer. As for what you wrote earlier, call me stupid, but I didn't take that as a rip at all. You just stated the obvious. No harm, no foul :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:31 pm 
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I also have always had issues with anxiety/ depression. Currently, I am not medicated for either of those problems, but I seem to be doing pretty well right now not being medicated. I can assume that this is due, in large part, to the Suboxone. I still have bad days, of course, and I still have anxiety and depression, but honestly, it is MUCH more manageable now than it ever was before I started abusing drugs, or even while I was abusing drugs. I think that there is something to the idea that buprenorphine may have anti-depressant properties at lower doses because I am on 1.5mg right now, and I honestly feel pretty good, generally speaking anyway. I am not saying that it will be that way for you, or for anyone else, but I just thought that I would let you know my personal story as far as Suboxone and anxiety/ depression go. I know that you didn't even ask about that, but I thought I would write a bit about it since you have the same problems that I have.

At first, when I began Suboxone, it was rough. I did have a lot of anxiety then, but I think that was just due to me quitting my drug of choice more than anything else. You may experience some anxiety initially, but it will go away. For me, it only lasted around four or five days, and then I felt great. It was pretty bad the first two days, and then every day after that, my state of mind improved exponentially. It was so odd to just feel my anxiety practically disappearing over the course of those few days. So don't worry if you experience some anxiety at first; it will probably go away:) As for the anxiety that you have right now over this whole issue, well, just keep posting if you have any questions or anything that we can help you with. I will answer as honestly as I possibly can, and so will everyone else. We all want this to go well for you, and will be here to help you through this.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:08 am 
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Actually, I do have ?'s about anxiety on Suboxone. Seeing that I detoxed before on methadone, the anxiety was THE worst part of the whole detox. Being sick paled in comparison to the anxiety I felt. And again, the anxiety now is kicking my ass. 6mg's of Klonopin plus .2mg's of Clonidine last night with NO sleep at all. Just a full-blown panic attack for hours. Does Suboxone cause anxiety during the whole detox phase for most people? I'm not talking about just a few days or weeks, but until I get off it. I feel like I'm just about ready to go back to the old ways and sell anything I can to get the $ for the med. As for financial help, because I rent instead of own a place, I get no help. It's so hard to look for help when you're sick most of the day. And how the heck do you stabalize on methadone when the longer you stay at a dose the sicker you get. I can't get stable on 32mg's, nevermind 30mg's. When they talk about having to be going through w/drawals to get on Sub, I've been in w/drawals since I was at 34mg's, which I stayed at for a month. I never felt stable, but still don't know what "stable" feels like. Am I suppose to feel the same way I did @ 125mg's, or am I just suppose to feel O.K., cause I don't even feel O.K., just shitty.


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