It is currently Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:48 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:02 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 5
Hey everyone! I started on SUBS 3 months ago and when I have them everything is perfect. I never feel like using anything else and I have no side effects from the medicine. I'm still running out early every month tho and last month almost had to relapse. This month was even worse. I ran out 4 days early and I've had to use lortabs the past 3 days not to go into withdrawals. Because of the relapsing I'm having to change doctors. I also moved so I was going to have to change either way. I'm getting myself 24 hours clean today because my appointment is in the morning at 10am. I'm on 45 a month at the moment from my last doctor and I have no idea how many my new doctor will prescribe. Do I need to ask for more? Do I need to slow down? I'm just confused and I don't wanna keeping failing. Any advice would be highly appreciated.


Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:24 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
I am confused? How are you running out of meds every month I mean I apologize if I am wrong but the only way to do so numerous times is if you are abusing your meds. Because the Dr would not let it happen more than once when scheduling your appointments. And 45mgs really that is overkill with the ceiling effect of Suboxone you are wasting 13mgs a day if not a little more i am just giving you a heads up that your new Dr probably will not be giving you that much . As of having to find a new Dr you are going to be in this position a lot if you don’t stop taking extra meds because all Sub Dr have very strict rules on dirty piss tests. And I mean you cant be enjoying putting yourself in withdrawal every month just to catch a buzz on taking more meds.

AND AGAIN I APOLOGIZE IF I AM WRONG BUT WE ALL ARE ADDICTS HEAR WE HAVE ALL PLAYED THOSE GAMES AND I JUST DON’T SEE HOW YOU CAN BE RUNNING OUT OF MEDS EACH MONTH ANY OTHER WAY BESIDES SELLING THEM.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:21 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:26 pm
Posts: 84
Location: London, UK
bboy _ I think you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here in response to bow9den. I don't think they were saying they were taking 45mg's of sub per day. i think they were saying that is the amount of tablets they are given for the month. It sounds to me as though Bow9den has been taking more than they should have been doing each day and thus running out a few days short of the month.

It's a bit harsh to suggest Bow9den has been selling their medication. I also did not see in their post where they admitted to taking more just to get a buzz of it. these are your assumptions and if you want my opinion i think you were wrong to jump to those assumptions.

Bow9den, how many mg's of suboxone were you supposed to take each day? whatever it was speak to the doctor about whether or not that amount was holding you all day. my thought is that if you can get the daily dosage amount correct for you there will be no reason for you to run out early each month, because you will not have the need to take an extra dose each day, and thus your monthly amount of suboxone will last you the month.

take care and let us know how you get on x


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:04 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:43 am
Posts: 190
Bow9den,

Hi. Welcome to the forum! Congrats on getting on the Sub and beginning your recovery. This medication truly is a blessing for opiate addicts. So, if I understand correctly, you've been on the Sub for three months and you're prescribed 45, 8mg tabs/month......thats about 12mg per day or (1 & 1/2 tabs). As you'll soon find, there are a WIDE range of acceptable doses. It seems like alot of people are prescribed somewhere between 8-16mg per day. But, many others are on doses ranging from 2mg, all the way up to 32mg per day.

I myself was induced on 32mg. Now, almost two years later....my daily dose is 14mg. I believe its common for some doctors to start patients off on a relatively high dose, and as time goes by and the patient begins to adjust to the medication and starts to make positive changes in their life.....the doctor slowly reduces the daily dose/while still addressing the pt's cravings and withdrawl symptoms.

Im assuming your running short on your Subs because your still having cravings after taking your PRESCRIBED daily dose?? If thats the case, I would definitely speak to your doctor about whats going on, so that he can properly adjust your dose. It takes AWHILE to learn new habits, break bad ones, and to learn how to live life on life's terms. I know whenever I first got on Sub, I would often take an extra tab if something bothered me or if I was having a bad day. I quickly learned that I was simply wasting my medication by doing so. Im not sure if your familiar w/the "Ceiling Effect".......after you have around 4mg of Sub in your system, any additional Sub you take WILL NOT increase the effect the medication has on you. I believe the reason for doctors prescibing doses above 4mg is just to insure that even after the half-life of this medicine, your receptors remain occupied......this steady level of Sub allows you to feel "normal", instead of the highs/lows which are experienced when taking full agonist opioids.

I do believe that you need to talk to your doctor about possibly increasing your dose.....(at least for now, since your so early in recovery). But, you should know that getting on Sub isn't a "fix it all"......you may want to consider getting some type of support system in place like NA/AA mtgs or seeing a therapist so that you can learn about/work on issues in which lead you to use in the first place. Dr. Junig believes in once/day dosing. My doctor actually has me on twice/day dosing. Some people find that they just feel better dosing in the morning AND in the evening.......but once your "stable" on this medication, if you still find yourself taking pieces of Sub all throughout the day (especially if in response to your emotions)......then, you're really just continuing the addiction cycle. Meaning-there's not much difference (other than safety), between eating a regular pain pill every few hrs and taking mini doses of Sub all day in response to negative feelings your experiencing.

Im not a doctor. Im an addict just like you.....just trying to give Ya a little advice. Please continue to visit the forum and post. There are sooooo many wonderful people on this site, and Im sure you'll find alot of helpfull information/support here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:53 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 5
Bboy42287 wrote:
I am confused? How are you running out of meds every month I mean I apologize if I am wrong but the only way to do so numerous times is if you are abusing your meds. Because the Dr would not let it happen more than once when scheduling your appointments. And 45mgs really that is overkill with the ceiling effect of Suboxone you are wasting 13mgs a day if not a little more i am just giving you a heads up that your new Dr probably will not be giving you that much . As of having to find a new Dr you are going to be in this position a lot if you don’t stop taking extra meds because all Sub Dr have very strict rules on dirty piss tests. And I mean you cant be enjoying putting yourself in withdrawal every month just to catch a buzz on taking more meds.

AND AGAIN I APOLOGIZE IF I AM WRONG BUT WE ALL ARE ADDICTS HEAR WE HAVE ALL PLAYED THOSE GAMES AND I JUST DON’T SEE HOW YOU CAN BE RUNNING OUT OF MEDS EACH MONTH ANY OTHER WAY BESIDES SELLING THEM.



You're crazy lol.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:56 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 5
marie wrote:
Bow9den,

Hi. Welcome to the forum! Congrats on getting on the Sub and beginning your recovery. This medication truly is a blessing for opiate addicts. So, if I understand correctly, you've been on the Sub for three months and you're prescribed 45, 8mg tabs/month......thats about 12mg per day or (1 & 1/2 tabs). As you'll soon find, there are a WIDE range of acceptable doses. It seems like alot of people are prescribed somewhere between 8-16mg per day. But, many others are on doses ranging from 2mg, all the way up to 32mg per day.

I myself was induced on 32mg. Now, almost two years later....my daily dose is 14mg. I believe its common for some doctors to start patients off on a relatively high dose, and as time goes by and the patient begins to adjust to the medication and starts to make positive changes in their life.....the doctor slowly reduces the daily dose/while still addressing the pt's cravings and withdrawl symptoms.

Im assuming your running short on your Subs because your still having cravings after taking your PRESCRIBED daily dose?? If thats the case, I would definitely speak to your doctor about whats going on, so that he can properly adjust your dose. It takes AWHILE to learn new habits, break bad ones, and to learn how to live life on life's terms. I know whenever I first got on Sub, I would often take an extra tab if something bothered me or if I was having a bad day. I quickly learned that I was simply wasting my medication by doing so. Im not sure if your familiar w/the "Ceiling Effect".......after you have around 4mg of Sub in your system, any additional Sub you take WILL NOT increase the effect the medication has on you. I believe the reason for doctors prescibing doses above 4mg is just to insure that even after the half-life of this medicine, your receptors remain occupied......this steady level of Sub allows you to feel "normal", instead of the highs/lows which are experienced when taking full agonist opioids.

I do believe that you need to talk to your doctor about possibly increasing your dose.....(at least for now, since your so early in recovery). But, you should know that getting on Sub isn't a "fix it all"......you may want to consider getting some type of support system in place like NA/AA mtgs or seeing a therapist so that you can learn about/work on issues in which lead you to use in the first place. Dr. Junig believes in once/day dosing. My doctor actually has me on twice/day dosing. Some people find that they just feel better dosing in the morning AND in the evening.......but once your "stable" on this medication, if you still find yourself taking pieces of Sub all throughout the day (especially if in response to your emotions)......then, you're really just continuing the addiction cycle. Meaning-there's not much difference (other than safety), between eating a regular pain pill every few hrs and taking mini doses of Sub all day in response to negative feelings your experiencing.

Im not a doctor. Im an addict just like you.....just trying to give Ya a little advice. Please continue to visit the forum and post. There are sooooo many wonderful people on this site, and Im sure you'll find alot of helpfull information/support here.




I think I know what you mean. I do my dose early in the day and my brain is telling me at night for another when I'm supposed to take just a half. I will ask for him to move to 60 a month until I start tapering down. Also, I had no idea about the 4mg ceiling so thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:20 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I agree that you should probably ask for a dose increase. It sounds to me like you're having cravings later in the day. It is true that 4 mg is generally accepted as the ceiling. The reason people are put on different doses above the ceiling is to address their individualized cravings. And if 12 mg per day isn't addressing those cravings, then you're in danger of relapse (as you obviously know), so as I said, I think you do need a dose increase. Good luck to you!

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:53 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 5
I'm about to head to see my new doctor will update when I get back! Thanks for the replies people!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:43 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:20 pm
Posts: 635
I'm a little late here, but I will say that when I was first starting out on suboxone, I really needed that 16mg dose per day to get me through. Yeah, it's definitely possible that some of that was mental, but it did work. Currently I am taking 5mg per day (I take 2 and 1/2 two mg tabs each morning) and that is adequate for me, my goal is to get to 4mg and stay there for awhile.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:05 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 1039
Also, if you do find yourself running short, try to stretch out your Subs for a few days, rather than taking opiates. You will NOT go into full blown withdrawals if you go to a low dose for a couple of days. I'm on 12mg/day and I've gone 3 days on 2mg waiting for a docs appt. You have enough built up in your system that you will be OK. Hope things work out with your new doc. Let us know how it goes.
Lilly


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:31 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
Oh ok my bad I thought that was crazy 45mgs but usually people say there dose not how many they get a month. As to getting 45 a month so you are prescribed 12mgs a month but not getting enough out of that I take it? So how are you running out of meds by taking 16mg a day so basically you are short 15 each month? I don’t see a Dr having a problem giving you 60 a month I mean I use to get 90 and even at times 120 so you are not asking for that high of increase but then again you are seeing a new Dr so who knows about how he goes about treating patients and how he looks at dosing. But you should really start trying to take what you are prescribed so you don’t keep running into this problem I mean you cant enjoy having to relapse each month just to take extra Subs?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:01 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:31 am
Posts: 3
I've been on subs for 8mo's. I had a serious addiction to oxycodone and alcohol. Fortunately, I have never experienced running out of my subs. I fact on most days, I can take 1/2 of the scrip amount. I am doing that do when it's time to taper off I will be accustomed to it. The first thing I would ask you is:1-What dose are you taking ? 2-Are you seeing a "sub maintenance" doc? (my 1st doc tried to taper me after the 2nd mo, then my detox doc took back over due to insurance problems). The science behind subs is they simply block the sensor in your brain from craving opiates allowing your brain to heal and start producing endorphins naturally again. Subs are very strong, serious meds. I cannot really grasp the concept of taking "more" because my prescribed amount is sufficient. I actually tried to be a hero and during a 1mo trip to handle a death on the family and tried to stop taking subs because of some negative comments made at an AA mtg I was at. Unfortunately I got sick and my doc advised me not to mess with it again. Unless you're only on 2mg/ day or something like that, could I see you running out and I don't know your situation. I work very hard on all of the mental tools I was given in detox and the IOP I attended after detox. I firmly believe that a strong mind supplements subs. I would also suggest getting involved in a program that specifically identifies the underlying triggers to your addiction and focus on building a spiritual, not religious, facet of your recovery. You'll be amazed at the power of prayer and being in a fellowship of people who are working toward the same ideal as you. Arresting this disease is more than just taking medication.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:11 pm 
Offline
One Month or More
One Month or More
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:25 pm
Posts: 30
Location: dallas, tx
bow9den, it took awhile for me and my doc to get to the right dosage. actually, it took me switching doctors because the one i was seeing didn't feel that anyone needed to be on more than one 8mg pill a day. i voted with my feet, went to another doctor, and he's been great. now that i'm on 16mgs a day, no cravings. it may take some tinkering. i agree with the sentiments expressed in the post that this is one part of solution to a multi-faceted problem. i don't know what your life is like, but i basically stopped my life and had the luxury of time. during that time i was able to do an intensive outpatient program and it was very valuable.... time consuming but valuable. since i am low income, it was even free for me to attend. you may want to see a social worker if you don't have insurance, or if you are insured, talk to the mental health coordinators at your insurance company. they may be able to get you in touch with some additional resources. you may not have to go whole hog and do the IOP, but perhaps just some counseling or even 12 step meetings if you dig those. anyway, i built up a support network, learned a lot about myself and my addiction (triggers, cognitive distortions, coping mechanisms, a long term treatment plan) and i found it to be immensely valuable. anyhow, i wish you luck in your journey. i am new to this board but am a long time user of suboxone. i will post my story soon. needless to say, i've done a cold turkey rehab, methadone program, and suboxone has by far been the best in terms of being able to lead a normal life and when it comes to relapse prevention. hang in there. if i can help, i'm a private message away.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:39 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 5
Sorry it took so long to get back on here everyone! So my new doctor is great, His name is Dr. Blackmon. He kept me on 45 a month but I've started to take me medicine as prescribed. I haven't ran out going on 2 months now. Everything has gotten a lot better on my end and thank you all for the help. I'm going to start trying to post more on this forum asap also.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:22 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I'm so glad that you like your new doctor. And that you're doing better. It sounds like you're stable now on your dose, which is great! Thanks for the update. See you around the forum!

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
cron
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group