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do you wanna see day by day plan for painless induction to suboxone?
Poll ended at Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:22 pm
yes 40%  40%  [ 2 ]
no 60%  60%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 5
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:27 pm 
i just spent ages typin it all up and my ipad went back to home screen and lost the lot :cry:

basics are start taking small doses of sub while u still using ger and slowly build up..1mg to start with, build up over days, upping dose slowly, 2 mg second day..still using gear...bupe needs to build up in your system

i will post specifics tommorow cos im not happy that all i wrote just dissapeaered, blody ipad


dont anybody start doing it till ive finished whoe schedule , but u will never throw yourself into wd just taking 2mg or under, not if you are a heavy user, always take the sub just after the hit too

il explain more( unless i get a load of ill informed replies inwhich case il waste time answering them most likely :wink:

homer


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:54 am 
i really dont want to come accross rude here but i am gonna offend people.

ive been reading thru a lot of discussions and there is just too much opinion presented as fact, myths presented as facts and people just blatently lying, for me to present my process here. i want to discuss it on an honest basis, exploring trial and error, comparing experiences etc.

i just cant believe some of the stories on here, they make no sense, things like ' comin of heroin was easy compared to suboxone ' being one of the most ridiculoous statements ive come accross. why would u need to come off suboxone if you breezed it ditching the smack?? why would u go on suboxone ??

these statements are so ridiculous. ive read on this site that people think anti sub speak is stamped out by mods ! i cant see any evidence of that !

there always seem to be a few sane people trying to spread sense and rational thought, but there are just too many crazy impossiblle stories for me to attempt to explain how to induct onto sub in a rational enviroment.

anyone in the position of desperately wanting to move from methadone or smack to suboxone feel free to pm me and i will help you to the best of my ability.

i want to stay on this site becasuse i am totally naive to long term sub recovery, thats what i want help with,

Homer


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:57 am 
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Homer,

I agree with you- if it was so easy to come off our DOC there'd be no suboxone. I've never come off heroin but I've come off massive quantities of roxy/ oxy/ percs/ or ANY groover I could get my hands on- AND ive come off suboxone as well. For me, getting off the DOC was epically hard. Much tougher than subs. Again, thats just been my experience over the years.

Now, granted, I was snorting at least 450 mg of roxy and chasing it with a few 80 OC's thru out the day for several years- but the theory that the worst of the acute WD's comes on around day 3-4 and begins to disappear in a week doesn't hold water for me. Like everyone else here, I tried to quit a million times. Several times I made it as long as 4 weeks. Once i made it almost 3 months. Every time I threw in the towel because I wasn't getting any better- swear to god I felt like it was getting worse.

I guess everyone's different, but to hear people say coming off subs is worse than our DOC makes me wonder. I came off subs and it wasn't easy- not at all- it was tough actually. But it wasn't anything like those times I spent white knuckling it either trying to quit for good or trying to get to the point where my subs would be most effective. The time you put yourself into withdrawal to get on the subs is tough-but very worth it in my case.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:49 am 
nogrooving

youre the kind of person i wanna discuss this shit with, obviously youve really been there

hardcore oxy use is at the same level as heroin i reckon, i agree, the time put into withdrawal to get onto subs is worth it if you end up doing well on the subs. the problm for me was i experienced that pain so many times and repeatedly fucked up and went back, usually always cos i tapered down of the sub real fast getting excited that i was in control, then down to 0.5mg a day or something and addict brain takes over " what a hit id get now, my tolerance must be so low after all that good work, i deserve a good hit just once before i jump off the subs .......

ive gone from gear to sub so many times now i got it down to a fine art. not proud of it, but my experience must be helpfull to someone. also to medical proffesinals. honestly u dont need to wait for wds, take small doses of sub while still using...build up the bupe levels. thats the basics of it, further explntion when someone needs it cos it will be quite detiled

id like to hear how long you stayed on the subs and how u got off them , have u stayed off opes ? this is the first time ive ever been scripted by a drug worker and am sticking to the 8mg a day, still get cravings , but doing welll so far, wanna know what i am aiming at nxt ....


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:52 am 
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Nogroovin wrote
Now, granted, I was snorting at least 450 mg of roxy and chasing it with a few 80 OC's thru out the day for several years- but the theory that the worst of the acute WD's comes on around day 3-4 and begins to disappear in a week doesn't hold water for me. Like everyone else here, I tried to quit a million times. Several times I made it as long as 4 weeks. Once i made it almost 3 months. Every time I threw in the towel because I wasn't getting any better- swear to god I felt like it was getting worse.

Geez, I totally agree with this. Everytime, I 'went back' even if it was just two days I made it, I was worse. every time. and it seemed like the w/d's were worse too. I guess after taking everything on the market (and the H at the end) for ten years, it would only make sense, that it WOULD get progressively worse. I remember thinking once,
"hell, if Im gonna be a dope fiend, I might as well be a good one"

how that ever seemed logical, I'll never know.
I really liked your post, and wanted to say THANKS.
I havent completely gone off subs, but Ive gone without for a week at a time a couple times. And I wasnt selling my posesions to get more. I was just a lil grumpy, a lil run down.
I know that when I was using I was headed to the grave though.

Homer,
I think you should post what you can to help others.
I know theres a TON of shit-throwing around here, but just think if you can help ONE PERSON, make the switch that hasnt been able to, wouldnt that feel good????
You'd definitely be making some 'good karma' points, LOL :D :D :D

I dont know, its up to you. Ive read what you've wrote so far, and it makes SENSE to me. Most people that have posted about trying to do this, sound so desperate, id think if a 'plan' involved shoveling shit for 6 hours, they're ready to do it with a smile, as long as it works.

Thanks for the information you have given so far.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:31 am 
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Homer,
I experienced the same things with subs- sometimes they just didn't seem to work. Now I figure it was because either I didn't wait long enough or I wasn't really ready to quit- prolly the latter. I knew I NEEDED to quit, but wasn't sure I could maintain yet. Know what I mean? I was sorta experimenting with the thought of quitting. Buying the subs on the street and using them for a week and then going back on the blueberries. It wasn't until the dea kicked my buddies door down & locked him up with a $100,000 all cash bail that I decided to get into a sub program and really commit to it

I was on subs for exactly 4 months. The last day I took them was the last day of march- so I think that means its right around 6 months that I'm off them.. Lol. I'm terrible with dates & stuff- I see people remember things down to the day and sometimes I wish I was more like that. I started out needing 3 per day.. That lasted for almost 3 full weeks.. Once I got stabilized I was able to start cutting pretty quick though- but during those 1st 3 weeks I wasn't able to go without the subs for long.. In fact, one of the things I see recommended here a lot is once daily dosing.. That makes a ton of sense, but it was something I could never accomplish consistently.. I think it's because I was tapering too quick- but I almost always dosed twice per day, right up to the end.

Honestly, physically I feel good. Getting good sleep again and not feeling the RLS anymore.. Mentally I've been having cravings again though.. I'm going to try to work thru them, but if it gets sketchy I'm just gonna jump back on the subs.. I know others have had different experiences with subs but mine was great. I'm not going to risk a full blown relapse just to avoid going back on subs.. My dr told me he'd taper me quick if I wanted but that he figured I needed a year or so on them.. Looking back he was prolly right about that year..

Amber,

It's crazy how we justify our actions isn't it? Lol. I swear to god I talked myself into believing a batch of subs were duds.. Even tried to get my dealer to refund me the money. All I really wanted was an excuse to get high again, but I had to plead my case. After all, it wasn't my fault- the subs were duds. Lol. Ughhhhh


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:26 am 
i did reply to your post, nogrooving, duno where it went, ive been travelling a fair bit recently and im on an ipad on 3g so it goes wrong sometimes. suffice to say i appreciated your reply and have taken what you said on boaard, some of it really helpfull mate, cheers. and yea, i know what you mean about the first bit.


amber, i have had a pm from someone, im gonna help that individual get onto then il usse what we learn from the 2 of us working togeter to work out how to post the plan in the most digestable form for the masses. im hoping over time we could all come together to write a guide. from the indution bit ive worked out, right through to the bits i have no clue about yet : how long to maintain, if/when to taper, any other guidance people cud add. but i really hope we can keep it to evidence/ experience based advice. so much valuable experience on this site, need sort the wheat from the chaff informtion wise and we could achieve so much

homer


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:47 am 
Well that pm was someone who completely mis understood what I'm saying.

Just to clear: I do not know a magic number of hours to wait after you last did dope, if you doing it the standard way, then ask someone else, or just do what your doc says. My way ONLY works if you start taking small amounts of sub while still consuming dope/ gear. I don't tottally understand the theory, but I KNOW IT WORKS


Homer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:54 am 
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i vote yes!

i have been desperately researching the internet and it is my reason for joining this site.
i CANNOT seem to get on sub anymore.
it used to work amazingly for me when i was at a very low tolerance
now up to half a big one a day sometimes more and i cant get on sub.

PLEASE SHARE! im desperate to hear this.

Thank you Thank you Thank you!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:18 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Hello Homer, I am the kind of person that apologizes when I know that I am wrong. But only if the person deserves it! LOL! So, I wanted to apologize to you for saying that it sounded like a bad idea. I honestly thought that you were talking about using heroine to come off of sub! :oops:
I obviously read that wrong. Now that I've read this entire thread, I see what you are trying to do here, and I think it sounds like a good idea.
It actually makes sense ya know? To let it build up first. Especially when your tolerance is that high! I say just post out the details, and perhaps we can all figure out where you may wanna fine tune it. Then maybe you can post it as a sticky at the top of the "Induction Discussion" Section.

Hopefully you get some people that come forward and let you use them as a basis for writing details too. I can't help ya there...sorry.

I also wanted to say that I totally agree with what you and nogroovin were talking about. All of the bogus information out here on the net. Then we even have a few that try to do it on here. Our moderators are very good at weeding those people out for the most part though. Maybe your thread can set the record straight about how hard it is to come off of "H", and how much easier it could be with your method! Good Luck with getting it all typed out. Perhaps you could try saving it everys so often, while you are typing it, that way, if it happens again, you'll only lose a little of it!~Take care[/font]

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 Post subject: post it
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:40 pm 
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I was watching an episode of The Office last night in which they are interviewing for the position of branch manager. The guy being interviewed has a miracle 3 part plan but won't share it unless he is hired for the position. The interviewers start to feel like he does not have the plan at all and is only saying he does to get the job.

Just kidding!

I’d be interested in seeing what you have to say…

I was really reluctant to get on buprenorphine when I first got clean because I had had so many nightmare experiences with trying to take it when I had a huge habit and was going through withdrawal. I very seriously thought that Methadone was going to be my only option; the only reason I’m not on Methadone today is because when I finally cleaned up it was in a state that has literally no methadone prescribing facilities or clinics. Induction was a nightmare for me because the Dr. inducing me had no clue what was going on and wasn’t taking the advice of me.

T

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:34 am 
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so according to what you are saying, if I am currently at a 1 gram per day heroin smoking habit, I can smoke a little bit, then take a small amount of sub RIGHT after smoking..? Say, .5 mg? Or is that too much..? And how long do I need to do this before completely transitioning to sub, and not taking any more heroin?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:30 am 
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If anyone's goin to try this ... I'd start ..really.. low. Low low low like even less than 0.1mg Sub. Assess if you're feeling any precipitated withdrawal. If not, then maybe a lil bit more. Go really low and slow.

I'm not condoning this method of induction ... I'm just tryin to say. Proceed with caution. Precipitated withdrawal is no tea party.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:28 am 
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No matter what I hear, I'm still too skeptical to actually do it MYSELF. I can read all day about what other people do but when it comes to me, and doing things that go against everything that I have learned, I have a very hard time. I have plenty of sub, and I have plenty of other, short acting opiates, so I have the tools to do this, but I'm just so deathly afraid of precipitated withdrawal...I also have about 5mg alprazolam and 3mg clonazepam, so I might just knock myself out on benzo's after I run out of dope, then when I wake up from the foggy benzo coma, probably 2 days after my last opiate, start on sub....I wish I hd access to more benzos, because I honestly think I could just cold turkey from the heroin with benzos, and possibly not even have to go back on sub...I don't have to worry about "trading one addiction for another" because I've probably taken a total of 20mgs xanax and 40-50mgs of valium in my entire life...I've never been big into them...only used as a tool to help withdrawals.


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 Post subject: Re: post it
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:01 pm 
TwinCitiesHardcore wrote:
I was watching an episode of The Office last night in which they are interviewing for the position of branch manager. The guy being interviewed has a miracle 3 part plan but won't share it unless he is hired for the position. The interviewers start to feel like he does not have the plan at all and is only saying he does to get the job.

Just kidding!

T


Lol :lol: :o I totally see how it comes accross that way!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:18 pm 
TeeJay wrote:
If anyone's goin to try this ... I'd start ..really.. low. Low low low like even less than 0.1mg Sub. Assess if you're feeling any precipitated withdrawal. If not, then maybe a lil bit more. Go really low and slow.

I'm not condoning this method of induction ... I'm just tryin to say. Proceed with caution. Precipitated withdrawal is no tea party.


Excellent advice.

I was easily able to take 1mg to start with though, but that was while doing a lot of gear. No harm in taking it slower though. Up dose as you feel. Have lopermide and benzos in stock for when you have got the bupe levels high enough to start feeling it. Then u stop taking the gear. You will instinctively know when cos it will no longer do anything.

I have done it a few times now and the most recent time I didn't even need the benzos. The big drawback with this method is it is too easy, so will always be tempting to go on another binge, knowing you can get back on the subs easy enough. Hence why I've been gone for a while :-(. I am now on 7.6 mg daily and am tapering down to 6mg where I will stay until I figure out wether absolute abstinence is achievable or if long term maintenance is more realistic for me...

H


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:22 pm 
slashNaxl wrote:
so according to what you are saying, if I am currently at a 1 gram per day heroin smoking habit, I can smoke a little bit, then take a small amount of sub RIGHT after smoking..? Say, .5 mg? Or is that too much..? And how long do I need to do this before completely transitioning to sub, and not taking any more heroin?


Smoking a gram a day u cud easily take half a mg, u wouldn't even notice it


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:46 pm 
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homer wrote:
. The big drawback with this method is it is too easy, so will always be tempting to go on another binge, knowing you can get back on the subs easy enough. Hence why I've been gone for a while :-(. I am now on 7.6 mg daily and am tapering down to 6mg where I will stay until I figure out wether absolute abstinence is achievable or if long term maintenance is more realistic for me...

H


Homer,

Sorry to hear that. Glad you're back though. Long term maintenance isn't the end of the world. When all we have is bad options, it just might be the best bad option we've got. ;-). Better than the alternative- that's for sure.


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 Post subject: heroin but not methadone
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Would not try this with methadone, cause less than 1mg of bup will precipitate WD, not nice at all. Absolutely TJ "proceed with caution"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:03 am 
Stargazer wrote:
Would not try this with methadone, cause less than 1mg of bup will precipitate WD, not nice at all. Absolutely TJ "proceed with caution"


Is this from your experience ? In my experience 1mg of bupe has no chance of kicking a substantial amount of methadone off your receptors. Maybe if you are already 48 hrs since your last dose, then 1 mg bupe might precipitate wds. But if you are on an average script of say 80 ml a day and you take 1 mg of bupe u won't end up in wds, In my experience.

This is the last I'm commenting on this now, I wish I had never brought it up. At the time I was excited to have found a relatively painless way to switch, but would appreciate if mods just delete thread as it causes too much confusion


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