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 Post subject: New to this, week 4
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:22 pm 
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So, here is my story. 26 year old male
I was on Subutex for 1.5 years.
I became tired of taking the nasty thing, so I just stopped at 6mg
The strategy I used was as follows.....
I waited as long as I could and then gave myself a really low dose opiate.
Went exactly 13 days cold turkey off Subutex, No acute WD.
I did experience what I guess is PAWS, but it was more annoying than anything.
Day 13 I gave myself one 5mg Vicodin in the morn and one at night.
Did this for a week. from day 13 to day 20
Day 21, the third week I cut that dose in half.
Took 2.5 mg Vicodin in the morning and one at night.
Week 4 and I am currently still taking a half a Vicodin in the morn, and a half at night.
I would say I feel pretty good, I know my strategy may be stupid to some but its working.
Exercise is something I just recently started, and I get a huge rush from it. This actually completely takes away what little aches and pains I get since quitting subutex. It lasts for about half a day. Im not working so Its a little hard to keep distracted.
Everyone is different, and I know with moral certainty that some of this IS in your head and some of it simply is not. If you have a negative expectation you will most likely have a negative experience. Your body and mind need time to heal.
Taking half a Vicodin in the morning and at night, takes away about 20% of the WD symptoms for me. My tolerance has dropped so much that I sometimes feel nausea from the half a Vicodin.
I will eventually take nothing.
This strategy came to me from watching a video from a very successful detox clinic in Florida ran by a very young and smart doctor named Dr. Steven Scalan
This doctor was hooked on Fentanyl while in Med school, switched to Suboxone and then got off the suboxone. He now has a clinic that's system for taking a person off of Suboxone consists of a low dose opiate, "Darvon" Vitamins, Clonidine, sleep meds and MEETINGS !!!!
They have a very high success rate.
So this is what planted the Idea in my head to use the strategy I am, it takes discipline because the vicodin is like shooting BB's at an asteroid in the beginning. The fact that such a low dose Opiate is helping makes me think Im actually healing up a bit.
My concern is if a low dose opiate will stunt your progress or not ? Because Day 13 cold turkey with no meds other than vitamins and unisom wasn't too bad. Had the restless body through the night but still got a disrupted 6 hours of sleep every night. I simply turned to this strategy because I became impatient I suppose. But Im not gonna beat myself up over it anymore, I even feel like I can take just a half at night now.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Hey, no judgement from me. If it's working for you and you're feeling better and you went 13 full days with nothing, I honestly can't seem to find anything wrong with the way you're stopping all together by using a short active opiate like vicodin to ease your w/ds. I've heard of other people doing something similar to relieve the w/d symptoms from the subs.

It could turn into a bad thing and you'd be right back to abusing pain pills, but you honestly to me don't seem like those are your intentions or that you'd let it get to that. A half a 5mg vic isn't much.

I've thought about what I'm going to do when the time comes to quit the subs, and I'm going to do a very slow taper and will get to the lowest amount of sub I can, but I've thought about using a short acting opiate like vic's to ease the withdrawls if I need to. It really depends on my state of mind then and how I feel about doing it when the time comes. Right now, I've only been on the subs for 3 months, so that def wouldn't work for me because I'd end up right back to abusing the pills. Maybe a year or two from now, when my recovery is further along and I feel that I could do this without abusing again, I may try the same thing.

I'm just glad to hear that it's working well for you and that it's easing your w/ds and you can see an end to it soon. Good Luck!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:08 am 
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sometimes I kick myself in the ass, i think damn day 13....
I might have been right around the corner from that "big breakthrough" everyone talks about.
I mean the symptoms I had up until day 13 were all pretty fun actually. I forgot how good sneezing felt, Stupid songs like "who let the dogs out" make you wanna cry and every cool scene in a movie gives you chills.
But when those symptoms faded and the aches and pains (that don't bother me in the day if I exercise) came and the nights grew tiresome, I decided to taper off of a short acting full agonist like Vicodin rather than Suboxone. This is due to my poor patience. The whole time I was in the Subutex program at my VA hospital I never gave a rats ass about meetings, sponsors, opiates and the brain workshops...we even have a pills anonymous here. No one can deny the strength of Subutex, its like an atom bomb when it comes to opiate dependency. If used as a tool along with COMMITMENT to a behavior modifying program. It can be a good thing. Dropping atom bombs do end wars...but after the war is won why keep dropping them for years to come? One of the highest success rate clinics uses low dose opiate to treat long term sub use...crazy!
Let me warn about some things, I take half in the morning and half at night currently. My doctor thinks its a joke but I treat that half like its loaded gun. I am an addict. I am using what little discipline I have but I AM helpless against this beast.
I still get PAWS symptoms, day 13 they were mild enough to have easily gone to work (if I had a job) or do a long list of stuff. But by day 13 there weren't enough meetings to go to, that would keep me distracted from what I was going through.
On a happier note, when I would not take subs a day here and there....it really didn't matter granted the long half life.
A couple days out of the week I like to skip my half a vic in the morn, essentially letting my body go a full 24hours with just a half of 5mg Vicodin. I get a little achy but my body and mind know what to do and that's, heal up !!!!!!
Im 26, I have a lot going for me, in good shape, positive outlook on life, I still think Im gonna have a Lamborghini one day :D and a great wife. And I still would like to go back in the Army with NO vices. The one thing I accomplished on pills was college. So I look forward to seeing what kind of Officer program the Army is doing these days, the great recession has hit the military too ! Its not like it was when the War started and you could go in on a moments notice like I did and pick any combat job you like...lol Did 8 years and only need 12 to retire...that thought makes me proud and happy.
Addicts are some of the most clever people I've ever met.....not to mention STRONG ! we put ourselves through hell because deep down we want to elevate our lives. The success rate is low because we get lazy, i sure did. However...what Harvey Dent say in the Batman movie ? "The night is always Darkest before the Dawn." and General Patton, "Victory is always nearest when defeat seems inescapable"
Most of us have been clean the majority of our lives, positive mind trumps all pain.
If shit hit the fan tomorrow and the world collapsed. You'd be a rebel in no time !!!! lol


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:58 am 
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Curious to see where u r now? Have u dropped the Vic's yet? No judgement from me if it works for you great!!

I been on different meds following a rapid detox and stopped them 3 days ago. I'm 39 days out suboxone free following a 4 years on sub. Just want my sleep and motivation back and I'll be ok.

Btw hope u get the army thing goin. I was in the coast guard. Made E5 and was gonna do ocs. It's a good choice if they'll let u back in.

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This world is meaningless, but through Him is everlasting life!!


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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