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 Post subject: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:19 am 
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Been on .5 am and .5 PM for several months. Looking to water titrate 2mg film strips to eventually get down to .250 a day - .125 in the AM then .125 in the PM. Maybe even go to .125 mg in the PM only during the last week before walking away. I dislike the word 'Jump' - we should all be stepping off or walking off with just mild side-effects S/X's) and mild withdrawals (W/D's).

I see plenty of success stories so I know it can be done. In fact I've done it myself before but did not use the water titration method. This seemd like the way to go becuase you can relaible decrease the dosages accurately. Decrease and stabilze and then decrease and stabilize again until done.

I have Vistoril for sleep, Imodium, and Clonodin as comfort meds.

Gotta get off soon - SIck and tired after several months taking this mediciation due to an opiate addcition.

Any feedback would be useful. Especially on the water titration method using 2 mg film strips.

Thanks for letting me introduce myself.....


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:02 am 
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Good to have you with us here on the forum. Although I have not done the titration method you speak of, I still would like to welcome you here. There are many posts here about it, all you need to do is use the search function.

I would say more but I am trying to type on a small tablet. Plus, my post bumps this thread up top again.

Rule62

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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:16 am 
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Hi spappas and welcome to the forum! I agree with you that in a perfect world we should all be titrating down and stepping off. When I taper off I plan on going as low as I can before stepping off. I wish you the best as you step down!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:45 am 
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Spappas, where are you ? Been a few days since the e mail.
How is it going?


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:18 am 
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Hi again,

Down to .25 in the AM and .25 in the PM - doing fine (little runny nose maybe but that's it). Will stabilize on this a couple more days then drop again to maybe .125 in the AM and .25 in the PM. Experimented with water titration but it is not necessary yet as it it still easy enough to cut a .25 mg piece off the 2 mg film. When the dosages get small I will resume the water tiration.

Patience seems to be key. The patience to stabilize before dropping again. We all just want to get off this stuff and get better quick - but there is no quick way. I go to 12 step meetings and one guy I met jumped off of .5 mgs and he said it was not that bad and he was very surprised at how easy he got throught it.

I plan to go lower than .5 and maybe try and walk off at .250 or .125 mgs (maybe even lower). I plan on having clonodine, vistirol,immodium, and some benzos for the first 3 or 4 days of the w/d's if in fact there are any. This is definitely one heck of a mind game.

Gotta start working-out again. Lost a lot of weight.

Gonna beat this thing. I've done once before a few year ago when I jumped off of about 1 mg and it was not pleasant but I got a lttle better each day and after about a month I was about 100%.

I feel that by going lower and being in low-grade withdrawal the brain is starting to repair itself. I do consider my self in low grade withdrawal becuase I have a slightly runny nose but this is definitely something I can deal with.


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:52 pm 
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It sounds like you have a pretty solid plan. At least for the most part. However I have a few items that will hopefully help.

First of all you don't need the liquor taper for strips. I promise you can cut tem. I'm able to cut an 8 mg strip into 0.25 mg pieces using something called the film cutting guide.

http://www.rxfilmcuttingguide.com

I bought mine for $4.95 but I see the price is now $9.95. It's still very well worth it. Whomever created it did a great job. It will work with 8 or 2 mg strips. The 2 mg are even easier to cut and you can get way, way lower. Check out their website and buy the download. BTW I have zero to do with this site and make no money from it. I have no idea who this guy is - only use his product.

Your taper plan and comfort meds all sound solid EXECPT the benzos. Id really rethink that. If nothing else do the first 4 to 7 days without benzos. If you need a couple after that, then maybe. I would really try not to as the risk is just so great.

My last comment and question is the largest. It sounds like you've successfully stopped subs in the past. Is that true? If so, what happened to put you back on? A relapse? And if yes, what will be different this time? If nothing, how will you not get the same outcome? You really should look at this. If nothing has changed or your plan this time is the same as last time you may end up back a third time. Stopping is often a real challenge. Staying stopped without a relapse is often a humongous challenge.

Hope these items help. I wish you the best with your taper and jump.

Don


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Hi Donh,

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am going to buy it!!!!!

First of all you don't need the liquor taper for strips. I promise you can cut tem. I'm able to cut an 8 mg strip into 0.25 mg pieces using something called the film cutting guide.

http://www.rxfilmcuttingguide.com

My last comment and question is the largest. It sounds like you've successfully stopped subs in the past. Is that true? If so, what happened to put you back on? A relapse? And if yes, what will be different this time? If nothing, how will you not get the same outcome? You really should look at this. If nothing has changed or your plan this time is the same as last time you may end up back a third time. Stopping is often a real challenge. Staying stopped without a relapse is often a humongous challenge.

One simple message as an answer to your comment and question:

I STOPPED MAKING 12 STEP MEETINGS - it took a long time to relapse after not making meeting but eventually I fell off the wagon so to speak. I relapse after a bcep tendons rupture surgery and prescribed Oxycodone - For me the key is to make meetings and never ever stop making them - It is something that works for me. Now I have really realized and accepted the fact that I cannot do it on my own - I need to make meetings and I think this time I have accepted the fact that I will be a life-long meeting maker. Acceptance is one of the cornerstones of the 12 step meetings along with completely surrending to the fact that drugs and alcohol are more powerful than me.


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:13 pm 
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Glad I could help. The. Cutting guide is slick as shit.

It sounds like you have a good handle on this - at least on paper. You know what needs to be changed. Far too many somehow think it will just be different this time - and it doesn't work that way. You should have a good chance if you continue aftercare.

I would also suggest working with someone the next time you need legit pain meds. Sometime you just need them and can't suffer. An addiction specialist can help you through that where the average surgeon simply cannot.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

Don


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:17 am 
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I downloaded the cutting guide. So far so good.

I am at .25 mg in the AM and .25 in the PM. Actually I think I am in a constant very low grade withdrawal now. Just toughing it out. Trying my best to keep busy. My wife is angry as hell but need her support.

Gonna try in a couple days going to .125 and .25

Once at .250 a day I am planning on biting-the-bullet with clonodine, Gabapentin, Klonopin/Valium, Vistoril, loperamide, magnesium, potassium, B-6 to help with the absorbtion of L-Tryrosine, Motrin, Advil, etc......

Should be a week of misery until I am free at last......

May God be with with me.....


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:16 am 
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We're pulling for you! Keep us updated!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:02 am 
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Down to .375 mg suboxone a day.

.125 AM .125 afternoon .125 evening.

Doing fine - still low grade withdrawal.

Planning on going to ..125 mg AM and .125 mg PM = .250 mg a day

Might jump here - let's see.......couple more days on the taper plan......


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:48 am 
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hello , when I plan to start I plan to use this when I get to 2 mg. ive read that people have been able to do it with minimal to no wds.i cant remember where I found it I just saved it for when I was ready,
idont no if this could or would help. since ur at .125 maybe u can alter chart to incorporate that. I do no that its better to dose as little as possible,from my own experience and from reading . I think since u r dosing 3 times a day u should try to get to 2 then 1 .I think it will be easier for u, that way ur body isn't wanting medication 3 times a day.
it was really hard for me to dose only once as well but I guess that's the addict in us. hope this helps:)

PROPER SUBUTEX & SUBOXONE TAPER METHOD...PAIN FREE!!!
I haven't found the proper information anywhere online so here it is. Subutex/suboxone has a binding affinity of 75% at 2mg. Anymore medication than this amount does not have much value. Tapering to 2mg/day is easy, but you should taper slowly at your own pace. Getting from 2mg to Zero is the tricky part and here's how to do it.

Take your dosage every 24 hours as follows (each number is one 24-hour period and numbers are in milligrams):

2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1.5, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1.5, 2, 2, 2, 1.5, 2, 2, 1.5, 2, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1, 1.5, 1.5, 1.5, 1, 1.5, 1.5, 1, 1.5, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0.5, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0.5, 1, 1, 1, 0.5, 1, 1, 0.5, 1, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.5, 0.25, 0.5, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0, 0.25, 0.25, 0.25, 0, 0.25, 0.25, 0, 0.25, 0, 0, 0.25, 0, 0, 0, 0.25, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0.25, ZERO

I highlighted where I think u might be ,not quite sure


Last edited by sub4newlife on Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:53 am 
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this was also with it :
This method is medically proven to work and I did it with no problem (only minor w/d symtoms and slight insomnia). Print out a calendar and mark each day with your correct dosage. This stream of numbers is difficult to look at (but you can see the pattern if you pay attention and write it on your own taper-calendar). You may take some of your dosage in the morning and some early afternoon. For instance, if you're on a 1.5mg day, take 1mg when you wake and 0.5mg mid-afternoon. Do not take this medication in the evening! Use it during your waking hours. If you work nights, take it in the evening and just after midnight. You will have mild insomnia, but will also have a clear head. Make use of your time if you cannot sleep. Exercise and diet make it even easier. This is the best way to taper off subutex/suboxone and live a normal life. I did it after years of opiate abuse and 1 year of subutex/suboxone usage. I cannot find this proper taper information anywhere. Hopefully this info finds you as it's the straight truth


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:54 am 
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Hi there,

I also have that chart and I was going to plan to use it - the problem is (at least from my experience) that you stay in protracted low-grade withdrawl. A little lethargy, mild depression (and I am not depressed by nature), slightly runny nose, slight anxiety, etc.

It is a great chart.

At .375 mg a day (.125mg 3 times a day) I am completely fine.

Today I am going to .125mg 2x a day to see how it goes. Once a few days at .250 mg a day (.125mg 2x per day) I might just deal with the devil and jump - I have a complete arsenal of comfort meds including Gabapentin, Lopermide, Valium, B-6 to help with the absorbtion of the L-Tryrosine (suppose to help with the lethargy after days 3-4), Heck, I might even try and procure some Kratom ( they say that helps also). Trying hard to get my hands on some Clonidine also.

My frien jumped from .5mg and said he was pleasantly surprised how bad it turned out not to be.

Thanks for the chart.

Steve.


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Sounds like you got this thing in the bag. Your dose is already low enough that you are having free receptors all day. I believe that is the beauty of the taper. Getting from 2mg to zero.

I just think that too many people get confused where the 2mg starts. You are not at that level when your taking 2mg a day. Since buprenorphine builds up in our systems, 2mg daily dose is nearly 6mg at the time of ingestion.

To get below 2mg in your system, you have to take 1mg or less. Once you get below ~0.75mg daily, you will be below 2mg for the entire 24 hours.

Everyone is different, but two milligrams is the amount where MRI scans show almost all opioid receptors occupied with buprenorphine.

Jesse
http://irecoverblog.com/suboxone/2014/1 ... one-taper/


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:09 am 
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Jumped on Friday - November 28, 2014 - so far so good. Today,Sunday, is 3rd day no suboxone. First 2 days were not bad. Jumped off like .250 mg that i took for about a week - took .125 mg the last day - Thursday. Friday I took no Suboxone.
Saturday I was fine without any comfort meds - guess the suboxone was still in my system.

Saturday night I knocked myself out with 1500 mg of gabapentin, 1 clonidine, and a couple benzos - I slept over 12 hours - today is day 3 at 7 am and I feel groggy but not in classic withdrawal. I also have Lopermide - would like to get some remeron - I get to see my psycho-pharmacologist at 11:45 today (on a Sunday - can you believe it) He has actually agreed to meet me on a Sunday. God Bless him.

Well it is 8 AM on my 3rd day and I plan on taking 300 mg Gabapentin - it works beautifully to stave off withdrawals.

Stay tuned - days 3 and 4 are when the fun begins.

Love you all - Steven.


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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:47 pm 
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Good job Steve. You sound like someone who's in control. I didn't take the time to read all through your post but it sounds like your on your way back

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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Steve. Every second of salitude that benzos give are seconds shared. You need to stay away from benzos if your going to be successful. Benzos are Far more brutal and withdrawal lasts years. I would be careful if that's possible at this point

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 Post subject: Re: New on this forum...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:37 am 
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Today is day 3 with no Suboxone - only experiencing fatigue - took 900 mg Gabapentin, .2 Clonidine and a couple Benzo's. Working Great - let's see days 4 and 5. No anxiety, RLS, able to sleep - generally feeling pretty good - I think it is the Gabapentin that is keeping the major withdrawal effects at bay. Did a lot of work around the house today. Kept busy as possible. I kicked heroin cold tukey before and his is nothing to kicking cold turkey. This is a walk in the park. On day 3 of heroin cold turkey I would be kicking around in bed and certainly not be to sleep for days. I slept 12 hours last night,

I might have to taper the benzo's again and I did it before using The Ashford manual and technique. Jumped off .0625 mg, Valium with no side-effects or withdrawal symptom's - nada, nothing.

Let's see days 4 and 5 or this suboxone withdrway. So far it seemd to be working great - maybe it is bacause I tapered o ,259 mg suboxe a day?

Thanks for all your help and guidance.


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