It is currently Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:07 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:09 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:35 am
Posts: 6
Hello everyone. I'm thirty three years old and I've been struggling with suboxone and subutex for the last five years. During that period of time I've had two serious attempts at quitting which both ended in failure. Along with my addiction issues, I've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder type 1, and my bipolar typically manifests in severe depression as opposed to hypo-mania, or mania. I was prescribed seroquel for my depression and I noticed that it worked well in the beginning, but now my depression is back and its pretty severe. My life is falling apart at the seams, and I'm struggling to keep things afloat.

I've had as much as two years sober in the past, and attended AA meetings very regularly. I wasn't the kind of person that just went to meetings, shared, and left. I was pretty involved. I had a sponsor, sponsees, a relationship with God, and a strong spiritual program in place. You might be asking why I'm dealing with this current debacle if things were going so well for me in the past. Depression is something that I didn't even realize I was dealing with, because it was such an intrinsic aspect of my personality, for so long, that I didn't know other people isolated from their friends for months, and resorted to self-destructive behavior to make it through life. I mean, obviously I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know how much of an impact bipolar disorder was wreaking on my life. AA's steps do address our spiritual malady (if you prescribe to this philosophy), but depression isn't spiritual - it's chemical.

So, I was diagnosed with bipolar years ago, and I feel like a missing piece of the puzzle was revealed to me, and that when I finally do get sober from suboxone, I'll have a higher level of awareness about my "condition".

The reason I'm posting on the site is because I really need support. I've been having suicidal thoughts (not ideation), and I'm very anxious about getting off of the subs. I don't have a prescription, but my neighbor who gets 60 subutex/mo. shares her meds with me. Because of this, taking a set two milligrams every day isn't possible, but that's a general amount per day.

Times that I've had to go without have been very difficult. My depression is really intense, but the anxiety is even more unbearable. I'm completely overcome by it. I'm pacing through my small apartment, taking a hit or two from an awful tasting cigarette, sitting down and looking at Facebook, obsessing about drugs, getting in the bath for 20 minutes, getting out, laying on the couch, pacing, bath, Facebook, cigarettes... I'm sure most of the people here know exactly how disconcerting this state of being really is. I know that this is what we have to go through to get to the other side, but I just don't think I can do it alone anymore.

I've tried several times to stop suboxone at my house, but that didn't last more than a couple days. A couple years ago I made it for a little bit over a week, and couldn't believe how powerful the withdrawals still were. I kept thinking that tomorrow would be a little better, but it never seemed to get better, and my anxiety got the best of me. I'm now convinced that I'll have to go to treatment in order to get sober. However, therein lies a problem. When I'm at treatment I'm not going to be able to do anything which I know will be incredibly therapeutic and beneficial: no chelated magnesium, no 5-HTP, no L-Tyrosine, no L-Theanine, no B-6 or B-12, no access to a good multivitamin, and no benzos. The RLS at night time keeps me from falling asleep entirely. If I'm lucky I can catch about two hours of really broken, light sleep. I know all this, but I still am determined to go there and make the best of it.

I have a couple questions from people on the site, and if I could get a general consensus on people who've had similar experiences I'd greatly appreciate it.

1.) The longest amount of time I'm going to be able to go to treatment is about twenty eight days. Does anyone know if I'll be able to get out of treatment, and feel good enough to stay sober?

2.) Is there anything that I can do before jumping off the subs that will help prepare me for the battle ahead? Are there any supplements (or anything else) that I should be taking now to prepare?

Thanks in advance everyone, and I'm glad I found this forum. Many of you seem to be very supportive and knowledgeable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:45 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:18 pm
Posts: 66
Hi there and welcome to the forum. I read what you wrote. It is really powerful and my heart goes out to you. I too suffer from deep depression and anxiety. That's the reason I'm on this medication to begin with. It's an amazing anti-depressant where regular anti depressants have never worked for me. Everytime I try to quit the Sub I'll be happy at first and it won't take long before the depression creeps back in and I will relapse again. When I relapse I don't just go back on the suboxone. I relapse on heroin or pain meds which can kill me so at 60 years old relapsing can be deadly.

I'm not sure why you feel it's so important to get off the Suboxone. I understand why you might want to but is it worth the hardships you'll suffer once you're off? Is it really worth risking it?

If you really feel strongly about getting off of it I think you should try a different approach than you've been using because it seems you've been setting yourself up for failure. First remind yourself to be patient with the amount of time it takes to feel normal or good again. I know it seems like it takes too long but give yourself as long as it takes without being in a hurry. It has taken me more than a month to feel good and even up to six weeks! If you don't feel better in a month or even a month and a half just hang in there. You will feel better if you're taking care of yourself and you're in the right mind space.

I 'm assuming you take the Suboxone to help with your depression too. I know I do and it's an amazing antidepressant for me. I hate like hell having to take it but I hate how I feel without it more. Anyway, I hope someone on this forum offers you some helpful support. I wish I could help you. Please take care of yourself and keep us posted on how you're doing. We care! all the best! megster


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:02 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
Hi UB and welcome to our forum. I hope that you can find some hope and comfort here.

I have a couple of questions. Do you have a general doctor or psychiatrist? Is there a way that you can have a professional help you through this without going inpatient?

Just as an example, my sub doctor says that he will put me on Wellbutrin when/if I'm ready to taper off. Could you try something like that? Just because the seroquel doesn't work any more doesn't mean that nothing will. Some people here are on suboxone and an antidepressant and in combination, it helps their treatment-resistant depression. Perhaps you could find a sub-prescribing psychiatrist who would work with you to find something that works.

If that idea doesn't work for you, you should still consider having a doctor prescribe a new antidepressant for you. Unfortunately, getting off suboxone is not going to make your depression go away. You need to be treated for it.

Being an addict is very difficult to deal with, even when you are not depressed. Depression saps your strength to get things done and live a full life. I'm going to make another suggestion. And this suggestion is even more important if you decide to definitely taper off sub. Start seeing an addiction therapist! A good therapist (you may want to consider finding one with at least a masters degree) can help you and support you in making the changes that are necessary to improve your life. He or she can give you tools that will help you and make you feel better. Suicidal thoughts are no joke!

If you decide to try to step off sub again try to taper first. Is your neighbor giving you strips or pills? Are they 2mg or 8mg? 8mg pills would be difficult for you to taper from, so you would need to try to locate 2mg strips if you can. You can taper down quite low if you find some. You could even search for a sub doctor who would help you taper off slowly. Maybe your neighbor's doctor would be willing to help you.

You have many things to consider, but remember to stop, and take a deep breath. You are special and precious to your family and friends. They need you around!

We will do whatever we can to help you through this process. You will be supported here if that's what you're asking for. Good luck.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:38 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:05 am
Posts: 156
Welcome ubiquitous!
Firstly, I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time with depression. I was suicidal for many years and my first taste of this was a plan with my mum as an 11 yr old girl. My dad finally did it when I was 17. I continued to have a plan and the exact amount of desperation to end things throughout my life. I know it's hard. Only did this stop when stable on subs.. I think I read you have been on subs for 5 yrs and have 2 yrs of abstinence under your belt. It sounds like emmersing yourself in AA has helped you and has also shaped certain aspects of your thinking. For example, as one of our most fabulous ppl here has stated many times..addiction is considered a chronic brain disorder that is characterised by relapse. Therefor many of our position on using ORT is likened to taking any other medication to remedy any other condition. I think it's wonderful AA was a significant part of your recovery even if its belief system can be questioned as archaic.
I'm not here to push any point other than making sure this is the solution to your problem and you're not hanging on an ideal that subs is not considered to be "clean". We have seen this to be a very dangerous ideal, people quitting subs and then overdosing because the brain disorder wasn't cured by meetings or sponsors. If you believe you don't need subs to continue a sober life and there is a chance some depression may lift after the WD has passed, then I would say prepare yourself and give it a go.
However, I have withdrawn from Methadone before and while subs should in theory be easier to WD from, if your state of mind is precarious to begin with I agree supported WD is the ONLY way to go.
would you consider tapering before assisted WD?
I can't advise how you will feel after a month. Some ppl feel a whole lot better, others feel like the depression that lingers is the most difficult. This doesn't mean it will be this way for you. It may be much easier than before. I would make sure you have a good support system once you are on your own. Meetings, family, friends, counselling.
Whatever the case we are here to help you.
Please let us know how you are doing!

* to help with some symptoms of discomfort...
- Magesium powder ( amazing stuff, great for RLS,recommended to me during M withdrawal)
Other ppl use...
- clonidine
- gabapentin
- immodium
The last three I have no clue about but have read here many times. I would look them up and use them only under the direction of a DR.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:24 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:22 am
Posts: 109
Hi UB
I just wanted to say welcome to the forum and that when I read your post I was like 'wow that's how I felt'.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar about 1 year ago and like you said, when I was diagnosed, it was like a missing piece of the puzzle was revealed. I have the mania type rather than the depressive but instead of being upset about the stigma of diagnosis, I was relieved to know why I am the way I am and that's why I had been self medicating for the last 20ish years. It was a relief to know I wasn't this crazy naughty dangerously impulsive, irritable, unbelievable racing thoughts and all the rest, for no reason. It wasn't my fault, it was/is a chemical imbalance.

Sorry I don't have much help you with but I just wanted to let you know I felt the same about my bipolar (even though we have different ends of it) and its so relieving to hear someone else have the same feeling about it when they are diagnosed.
I also wanted to let you know I am here to listen and give you support along your travels.

Just a quick question someone else asked I think but not sure that u answered. Do you have any type of support network such as family and/or friends who know what's going on for you and the suicidal thoughts that you can talk to about? I know people get scared to talk about suicide but it can be very helpful discussing your thoughts. Sometimes a friend or sometimes a professional, is helpful at the time your feeling at your lowest. Also is there any way you would consider going back to AA or NA? Just to keep yourself preoccupied and less isolated at least.

I look forward to hearing how your going and take care.
Mel


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:24 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:35 am
Posts: 6
Wow! Thanks everyone with your replies thus far. I'm going to try and address all the questions you guys have posed.

Megster: The reason that I feel it's important to get off of suboxone is because I can tell how much it is impacting my life. I've been an avid Chess player for a long time, and I can see how sharply suboxone/subutex has impacted my abilities. I can tell that it is making me less sharp. Also, I'm a diabetic and I have hepatitis c, and I feel it's important to be as healthy as I possibly can. You mentioned some stuff about suboxone being a powerful anti-depressant, and I couldn't agree with you more. I live in Michigan, and I took a vacation to Georgia for a month to try and quit taking subs. While I was there I ended up getting oxy contin and taking that for a few days because I couldn't bear the WDs, and once I was out of that I started taking kratom. I was clean for about a week before I came home, and the first thing I did was get some suboxone, and the depression from withdrawals went away instantly. I remember that being the most brutal aspect of the withdrawal - depression. I just didn't have motivation to do anything, and I felt badly for my girlfriend who was suffering with me by proxy.

Amy: I have a doctor that I see regularly for my diabetes, but he's not very familiar with suboxone, and I wouldn't be comfortable consulting him for the withdrawals. It's simply that I don't have confidence in his level of understanding when it comes to opioid withdrawals. I haven't seen a psychiatrist or psychologist in years because I usually just stop going to see them for no other reason than being irresponsible about it. However, I am open to the idea of finding one, or both to get through this, because there are issues that can arise as a result of going through withdrawals. One being that I'm a diabetic and it is very hard for me to eat anything while I'm going through withdrawals, and another is I feel like it'd be very good for me to have some type of chemical assistance like a benzo, or clonidine to help me get some regular sleep. I'm also open to trying another anti-depressant even though I haven't had much success with them in the past. I'm open to anything that will help.

My neighbor is giving me subutex pills. They're 8 milligram, and I only take one quarter of them per day GENERALLY. Sometimes I take four milligrams, but usually I only take 2. I've thought about tapering off, but I've jumped off at four milligrams, two milligrams, .25 milligrams and they all seem to be the same in terms of withdrawal intensity. Another thing that makes tapering difficult is there are times where I'm really able to get it from her because she'll take more than what she normally does, and there are times where she'll sell some of her prescription when she needs to make ends meet. If I had like 20 pills, AND someone who could help me take them in a responsible fashion I would be more open to tapering.

Amy, thank you so much for your kind words about my friends and family. I'm really having a hard time right now, and hearing stuff like that helps more than you probably realize. Your support is more precious than gold to me right now.

Katipo: I have taken gabapentin (neurontin) before because I'm diabetic and it treats nerve pain. It's also good for anxiety and mood stability.

Mel: I will go to AA once I start going through withdrawals, but I haven't been as of late because I really don't like the attitudes of a lot of people because of how they perceive suboxone. In Detroit you get a lot of people with really condescending attitudes that forget that the most important people at the meeting are newcomers, and people who need support to get through very turbulent periods of their life.

Thanks a lot you guys for everything that you've said. The support from this forum is so amazing, and it's really what I think I'll need to tip the scales of these withdrawals. It's great to hear things that I usually overlook - like consulting with a doctor, and/or psychiatrist. That's something I would have overlooked, but when I see it from people who have had success with quitting on the forum, I consider it a lot more seriously.

Love and Peace. Thanks again!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:15 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
You are very welcome. I know I speak for all of us that we want to provide you with whatever support you need. The people on this forum and particularly the people who have answered you are incredibly generous with their time, feedback, and support. They blow me away all the time. :)

If there is one thing I want to reiterate from my entire post it is that you are precious and important. There are people in your life who have been blessed and touched by you. If you were not here there would be a gaping, ragged. sucking hole of pain. You mean something to a lot of people. I know that.

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:32 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:35 am
Posts: 6
Thanks again Amy!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:11 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:22 am
Posts: 109
Thanks for your replies UB

I don't condone lying but where I m in Australia, suboxone is still looked down upon. if I was to openly say im on it at NA the older, less educated members would say im not clean, whereas the younger ones do. This is because they know sub is such a life saving medication, for a very serious condition. I simply don't mention I m on it and I know many who do the same.
I love the support and help I get in the rooms, to rebuild my life and teach me coping mechanisms I never had, so i don't think what I take is any of their business.
They say your not to take any mood or mind altering substances, which is a load of crap because majority of them are on medications for depression, anxiety and range of other things. Did you say- do you have supporting family and or friends to talk to when times get rough?

Amy is so right, your extremely special and losing you would have a devastating affect on everyone who has ever known you. I speak through experience.
My sister died of an overdose just over 2 years ago and it has fucked up everyone in her life. My hero and only person in the world who had been through what I had within our dysfunction family is now gone. She took a large part of my heart and personality when she died. Not to mention what her kids are still going through.
That's a big part in my recovery, im doing it for her because she couldn't (Im now doing it for myself too).
Also, I don't want my poor mum to ever have to bury a child of hers again! It was and still is, just overwhelmingly devastating. My sis had just started suboxone but something went wrong and she obviously got off it and that was the end. So im on it and I will be until im ready and safe to be no risk to myself or others -around drugs.
My family and friends need me and I know that now. I had very deep depression in my early 20's and suicide was my only way out (I thought) but my plan didn't work out and I believe the universe didn't let it happen somehow. Now I am not only an aunt, im a surrogate mum to my sisters kids and its my mission to stay clean and be around for them as well as everyone else.

Take care and we are all here for you. Please keep responding as it helps to let things out.
Mel xx


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:38 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:35 am
Posts: 6
Mel: I know about the people at NA saying all of that stuff about suboxone. It's absolutely no different here, and drinking 12 coffees, or fourteen energy drinks a day is OK somehow.

I do have good news, though, I haven't taken any suboxone since Friday, and I'm actually not feeling that bad. It's just hard to sleep, and when I finally get up in the morning I really don't want to get out of bed, but I end up getting up, drinking some water, taking vitamins and supplements, and I just have been taking it easy around the house.

Hopefully I continue to feel this good.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:51 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2802
Location: Southwest
UB,

My question is, did you have an opiate addiction before you took Sub? If the answer is no, then getting off of it is the correct course of action. But if it makes you suicidal then I'd rather see you on it for life then see you dead.

When I first got sober off booze many years ago the man who was my sponsor had the same medical issue as you. Manic/depressive disorder. He committed suicide only when he couldn't get the proper medication to treat it. The story is way too complicated and I won't type it out here, but you have me worried when you talk like that.

Now you say you're feeling better with some time behind you. That is fantastic! If indeed you were never an opiate addict then you're doing the right thing.

How are you feeling today? Your health and welfare is very important to us all here. Keep us posted, okay?

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:25 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4133
UbiquitousB wrote:
Mel: I know about the people at NA saying all of that stuff about suboxone. It's absolutely no different here, and drinking 12 coffees, or fourteen energy drinks a day is OK somehow.

I do have good news, though, I haven't taken any suboxone since Friday, and I'm actually not feeling that bad. It's just hard to sleep, and when I finally get up in the morning I really don't want to get out of bed, but I end up getting up, drinking some water, taking vitamins and supplements, and I just have been taking it easy around the house.

Hopefully I continue to feel this good.


Not to mention smoking like chimneys!

I'm glad you're feeling a little bit better. Rule is absolutely right! You have to do the things that keep you wanting to live! Be kind to yourself and don't push yourself in a direction that makes you feel worse. You are worth treating well!

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:32 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:05 pm
Posts: 2
It's so good to know I'm not a he only young woman (29) to have been on suboxone for over 5 years! Its such a safety blanket. Not to mention the withdrawals! No wonder people are on it so long....BTW, I'm on day 3 without them.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group