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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:03 am 
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Yeah I feel pretty shitty about the relapse and it wasn't worth it at all. But I feel pretty good tonight so f*ck it... nothing I can do to change it. I don't have the urge to use right now.. Hope it stays that way but I know that's wishful thinking. I had the opportunity to buy more and I didn't do it simply because I knew I shouldn't and didn't want to continue... So, I don't think being off sub is too much of a risk.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:58 am 
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Recovery is going to be hard work, eh!

I've been off sub for a while now and I've had a couple of times where I came pretty close to using again. Thank God I have a good support system in place and I was able to lean on it hard during those times. Thank God that I had learned enough about addiction over the years of working with my addiction counselor that I could recognize some of the warning signs of impending doom and I was able to reach out for help.

Addiction is a wicked disease, it is patient in that it will wait for the right time and the right opportunity to strike. It knows just how to 'push your buttons'. It's cunning and relentless, but that does NOT mean that we can not learn to live with it.

Look at all the former alcoholics who don't have a med that they can rely on the stay off booze. I know PLENTY of recovering alcoholics who have years and years clean and sober who had to get that way without the help of any meds. I know former cocaine addicts who didn't have any meds to help them stay clean, but there they are today, clean and sober. We opiate addicts are lucky with respect to suboxone, if we choose we can stay on it for life, but we can also choose not to take it when we feel we are ready. I know the disease of addiction can be managed without meds if one so chooses, it's hard work, no doubt about it, but it's rewarding too!! In most all of these cases, some kind of counseling or AA or NA meetings played a big role in their success. It's certainly true for me.

Hang in there pdx and keep being honest with yourself. I believe your honesty will help you a GREAT deal.


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 Post subject: Day 16
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:05 pm 
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I'm having a really low day. I didn't really sleep that well. Woke up at like 4:30 and snapped at my girlfriend to quit crowding me. Not doin well today...but it's not as bad as it HAS been. Dealing with my depression and stuff is really wearing on me and my relationship.
I wonder is it possible to be such a different person off of suboxone that you don't feel the same way about your girl friend anymore. I'm just emotionally numb when it comes to things with her, it's killing us and adding more stress to my already shitty situation. I keep telling myself she's great and praying that I come back around. I just want things to go back like they were when I was on suboxone. Can anyone else relate to this?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Phew, that's a tough one man.

On the one hand, because you are pretty young, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to be on Suboxone a while longer and when you're ready....taper off of it properly.

On the other hand, you can remain off of sub and I believe your brain will eventually right itself, but it could take a while. Depression is a pretty common part of PAWS, but there is really no way to predict how long your PAWS is going to last.....if it's even PAWS?

Sorry I can't be more help.

Have you been hitting the gym still? I know exercise helps us to feel better, it's not going to erase the depression, but I would think it would help.


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 Post subject: Day 17
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:58 pm 
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Well I'm on to day 17 and it hasn't been easy. Yesterday my depression was really taking it out of me and I was having a really rough time. So, I went back to the head shop and bought some more of the Kratom that I used in the first week. It really took the edge off and I felt good again. I've read mixed reviews on the internet about this substance and I don't really know what to make of it... I mean, it's legal, so it can't be THAT bad can it? I would really like to know everyone's opinion of this drug and if it actually helps or if it just prolongs the depression that comes along with bupe withdrawals...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:11 pm 
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PDX,,Yes dude you are doing Great! if the depression is eating you up and your starting to hang with the old ways then I'm sure you know that's your alarm mechanism telling yea to do something different to occupy your time so you don't have time to think and let depression set in,relapse happens they can come and go its on you as to whether you act on it,but just in your days of writing I'm sure in the back of your mind you could see it coming,for some this is the time for a good ass reaming and for most this is a critical time for compassion,i choose compassion,in other words just as you said its done and its over try not to dwell on it and by the sounds of it it was a good thing,i waited almost a year before my first and only relapse with coke and even then i really didn't care about doing it,i just wanted to get it out of the way so to speak,that was "my justification"because i was being told that i had to have one,anyways when i did "relapse"it sucked,didn't have a good time and i dwelled for a couple days about the money i spent/wasted,until i turned my thought process back around,I began getting very sensitive and crabby about everything around my wife too,i would snap at her if she was doing dishes and in my mind slamming them too loud,but the key word is in my mind,i was the one with the issue and taking out my frustration on the wrong source,if yea get like that let her know that its not her and if you need to take a few minutes to walk it off,every little fraction of a daily stressor that can be relieved will help ease up on time to think in your head that can influence depression,i learned early in recovery to my alcohol that by eliminating just one thing a week out of my daily stress related activities made the unknown stressor so much calmer,like for example i didn't think that not having a car and having to find and depend on some friend to give me a ride to my next meeting was a biggy but after i got a cab set up in advance for the week that that was one small thing along with all the other small things that i didnt have to think or worry about and after taking care of a few of the little things that i didn't think were anything my depression and headaches started to fade away and my relationship with folks around me started to get better and actually more enjoyable,just a thought,I'm new here so if Ive gone too far or suggested anything on the negative side i do apologize and mean no harm,i also have been on suboxone for going on 4 years now and just started with the decrease,my story is very heavy so time will tell,but I do want you to know that you are an inspiration and even not knowing you i am one to tell yea I'm proud of you and keep up the excellent work and it is work,you will only act on your surroundings and the seed is planted as far as people,places and things,and sorry i know nothing about the Kratom,sounds like your doing great and its might just be about living life on lifes terms that we have bickers about,

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 Post subject: Re: Day 17
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:03 pm 
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PDXhoops wrote:
Well I'm on to day 17 and it hasn't been easy. Yesterday my depression was really taking it out of me and I was having a really rough time. So, I went back to the head shop and bought some more of the Kratom that I used in the first week. It really took the edge off and I felt good again. I've read mixed reviews on the internet about this substance and I don't really know what to make of it... I mean, it's legal, so it can't be THAT bad can it? I would really like to know everyone's opinion of this drug and if it actually helps or if it just prolongs the depression that comes along with bupe withdrawals...


Sheesh, I've heard of Kratom, but I don't know that much about it. I think I've seen it.....is it dark powdery stuff that smells awful and people put it in liquid and drink it? For some reason, I think that's what it is. I had a friend who used that sort of stuff, but I'm just not sure if he said it was Kratom. What is the point of it, anyway? Is it like an opiate or is it an opiate or what?

What you're going through is normal and it's what I'm expecting may happen to me when I stop Sub. Actually, at this point, I'm more worried about the fallout from being on Naloxone so long! People go through a very hard time for an extended period. Your thread shows how it gets better and then worse and then better and then worse. Please, please don't give up! You WILL feel better. This is normal and you are doing exactly what you should be doing, specifically with the working out. As far as the relapse, here's my serious advice. Forgive yourself. You did it and it's done. Don't let it eat at you or it will cause another relapse. Learn from it. You felt like hell afterward. It's not worth it!! You didn't set yourself back. And as long as you take whatever you can from it, it wasn't for nothing. You are doing great, IMO, and I hope you will continue to fight your way through this and give yourself a chance, because you will absolutely come out the other side.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: Day 23
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:22 pm 
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It has been 23 days since I took my last dose of suboxone and it has been quite a roller coaster to say the least. Besides the one day with 80 mg of OC and a little kratom I've been clean. I'm not proud of the OC day but whatever, it was only one day. I just got back from my trip to NYC with my girl friend. I don't think it was the BEST time for me to go on that trip, lol. I really didn't feel happy the whole time and couldn't wait to get home. I thought that I was going through some depression while I was there from the PAWS. Last night as I got back from the long flight I felt really good to be home and in that moment I felt content and like I was ok. I'm still not sleeping well. I fall asleep rather easily with the serax and a few simply sleep but I can't stay asleep for that long with out getting up and having to take more. Today I feel ok. I'm definitely not having the irrational depression that I have had in the last few weeks. I'm not feeling super good or anything but I'm slowly improving. It's like 1 step forward and 2 steps back... then another little step forward. I do think that there is just as much psychological withdrawal as there is physical and that staying positive and logical is really important.


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 Post subject: Day 25
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Happy St. Patricks day! I've been feeling good the past couple days and I've been told by a few people that I look less "peaked" My sleep seems to be slowly improving daily. March Madness is my favorite time of year so I'm lovin it!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Glad to hear you're doing better PDX, being told we look less 'peaked' is always cool too!

Hmmm, any predictions as far as March Madness goes.....I'm going with my 'Cats....even though they just squeaked by today!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Hey PDX,

I'm just up I-5 from you here in Tacoma. I'm 30 and got off sub last year. I was nervous reading your thread because it started in February and you were struggling a bit so I worried you had gone back.

I can TOTALLy relate to a few things.

1. The weather! I jumped on a vacation in Hawaii in May. I chose that time to avoid the depressing winter/spring weather in the NW. Sunny out today right? Hang in there, the nice weather is on the way and just picture yourself crusing around the Pearl District in the sun and TOTALLY CLEAN!

2. The trip. Man, we went to Lake Chelan in June when I was bout a month out. It was MISERABLE. I just tried to figure out how to make it through each day without anyone realizing I was depressed.

3. Depression. THIS WILL PASS. I'm literally 11 months out and still have an occasional bad day or maybe even only a bad few hours but they are VERY few and far between. I want to say when I had made it a good 2 months I was feeling really really good. But the first 30 days BY FAR are the hardest. You're through that part!

4. Girlfriend/Sex Drive - been ther done that. All I can say is your body gets back to normal. A little slower than I'd like but you're not broken!

So....I'm coming up on a year off and it is so worth what you're going through. You weren't happy on OC and you weren't THAT happy on Sub. So keep working out, eating healthy, and believing in yourself. Life without any pills is good...so so so so so good.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:51 am 
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Dang, is it ever good to hear from you again hawker1!!

That's funny how you timed your jump for the nice weather, me too. June 4th/2010 was my quit date.

I agree that being off sub is so worth it....it's been a struggle, no doubt, but I'm very happy with where I am....very happy indeed.

Anyway, I always like reading what you have to say.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:59 pm 
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hawker1 wrote:
Hey PDX,

I'm just up I-5 from you here in Tacoma. I'm 30 and got off sub last year. I was nervous reading your thread because it started in February and you were struggling a bit so I worried you had gone back.

I can TOTALLy relate to a few things.

1. The weather! I jumped on a vacation in Hawaii in May. I chose that time to avoid the depressing winter/spring weather in the NW. Sunny out today right? Hang in there, the nice weather is on the way and just picture yourself crusing around the Pearl District in the sun and TOTALLY CLEAN!

2. The trip. Man, we went to Lake Chelan in June when I was bout a month out. It was MISERABLE. I just tried to figure out how to make it through each day without anyone realizing I was depressed.

3. Depression. THIS WILL PASS. I'm literally 11 months out and still have an occasional bad day or maybe even only a bad few hours but they are VERY few and far between. I want to say when I had made it a good 2 months I was feeling really really good. But the first 30 days BY FAR are the hardest. You're through that part!

4. Girlfriend/Sex Drive - been ther done that. All I can say is your body gets back to normal. A little slower than I'd like but you're not broken!

So....I'm coming up on a year off and it is so worth what you're going through. You weren't happy on OC and you weren't THAT happy on Sub. So keep working out, eating healthy, and believing in yourself. Life without any pills is good...so so so so so good.


Hey, thanks. You seriously made my day!! I'm so excited to think about being off the Sub and where you're at.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:34 pm 
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What's up Romeo! Good hearing from you too. I read your advice to others on other threads from time to time. You're always dead on! As dead on as anyone can be with this craziness:) I'm glad you're still doing well. It just keeps getting better doesn't it? A big deal for me this year was New Year's. When you're on pills time flies. Someone said time flies when you're unhappy...and I agree. So, I would always hate New Years. Another year of my life on pills in the books ya know? This year was great. Ringing in a New Year completely clean. Man...so awesome.

Laddertipper, glad to help anyway I can. I've read some of your stuff too. You are on the right track! Right attitude, right plan, keep it up. It's worth it. Every day you can take a LITTLE less sub than you did the day before is a great thing. Take your time and taper slow but keep getting lower. Let me know if you have any questions.

PDXhoops..update?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:46 pm 
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hawker1 wrote:
What's up Romeo! Good hearing from you too. I read your advice to others on other threads from time to time. You're always dead on! As dead on as anyone can be with this craziness:) I'm glad you're still doing well. It just keeps getting better doesn't it? A big deal for me this year was New Year's. When you're on pills time flies. Someone said time flies when you're unhappy...and I agree. So, I would always hate New Years. Another year of my life on pills in the books ya know? This year was great. Ringing in a New Year completely clean. Man...so awesome.

Laddertipper, glad to help anyway I can. I've read some of your stuff too. You are on the right track! Right attitude, right plan, keep it up. It's worth it. Every day you can take a LITTLE less sub than you did the day before is a great thing. Take your time and taper slow but keep getting lower. Let me know if you have any questions.

PDXhoops..update?


Thanx for the encouraging words. I'm so happy because I'm on my fifth day at only one little milligram!! OMG, I've come soooo far. I'm not sleeping well at this point, but who cares. ONE milligram!!!!! YEAH!!!!

I feel you with the time flying on pills. It really does. It's been 5.5 years on Sub and I don't know where that time has gone. I haven't accomplished a whole lot in that time either, other than sleeping enough that I should be good for the rest of my life. I'm excited to be closer to being finally through all this. I actually feel better even when I don't feel well, lol. KWIM?

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:33 am 
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Good work getting down to 1 mg! Once you get below 2 mgs you really feel each reduction. I totally know what you mean by almost enjoying not feeling great because you know it's your body healing. Each time you take a little less and feel a little down, restless leg, trouble sleeping, etc. it's because your brain is healing. That is how sub works...each time you reduct your brain gets closer to normal!

5.5 years...long time. How long were you on your doc before? My total journey was about 6 years. The heart and soul of my 20's! Unreal. Life is a marathon...get through this last part of your sub journey and get excited about the rest of your life clean. Your motivation will return. I promise.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:54 pm 
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hawker1 wrote:
Good work getting down to 1 mg! Once you get below 2 mgs you really feel each reduction. I totally know what you mean by almost enjoying not feeling great because you know it's your body healing. Each time you take a little less and feel a little down, restless leg, trouble sleeping, etc. it's because your brain is healing. That is how sub works...each time you reduct your brain gets closer to normal!

5.5 years...long time. How long were you on your doc before? My total journey was about 6 years. The heart and soul of my 20's! Unreal. Life is a marathon...get through this last part of your sub journey and get excited about the rest of your life clean. Your motivation will return. I promise.


OMG...okay, here is when you will see how retarded I am. I didn't even get to do any d.o.c. I was an alcoholic, a bad one certainly. I'd been sober a while and fell off a ladder. Was in a coma but finally woke up and remembered who I was and all that. The next few months were very tough. I had bad headaches but couldn't hold down the Vicodin to save my life. My eardrum was perforated by the fractured bones and all that, and my stomach was constantly sick and the room was always spinning. So, I went to a pain doc, who suggested Oxy since I cannot tolerate hydro for some reason. I was too scared. At that point it was all over that Oxy killed people all the time. So, he suggested Meth, but that made me think of Heroin, so he suggested I see a Sub doc. I did and the Sub doc said I should not take Oxy or Meth because I was an alcoholic so I'd just get addicted. I started Sub for pain. It worked to a point. It's very embarrassing, but that's what I did and I seriously feel very stupid, but it took me a while to realize that it wasn't the normal way to get Sub prescribed AT ALL!

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Day 30
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:22 pm 
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OK, im finally at about the 1 month mark! I got rid of all of my suboxone so I wouldn't even have it in the house anymore. I seem to still be struggling with depression a little bit but I think that is actually because I'm not very busy right now. It's not nearly as bad as it was a few weeks ago. I have been having a lot of cravings and dreams about oxy lately. I don't crave sub but PILLS... It's pretty bad but im trying to stay vigilant against it. It's amazing how suboxone makes you forget about pills and not want them at all. Overall, I think i'm doing pretty good and I'm glad that the worst seems to be behind me.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Hey PDX,

Thanks so much for the update. Coming up on the 1 month mark, eh....GREAT!!

Depression is a very common symptom while detoxing from opiates and I'm really glad to hear that you recognize that it isn't as bad today as it was a few weeks ago. I found out the hard way that not staying busy increases the depression greatly. Even if you can just keep your mind occupied it will help a lot. I used music to keep my mind occupied and it helped a lot, hell, I still listen to good music every chance I get....I got some good tunes blaring in my ears as we speak. If music doesn't 'do it' for you, then find something that does....a hobby, a new interest....trust me, it will help.

You said that you think you are doing pretty good, are you freaking kidding me....I think you're doing awesome!! Being opiate free is hard work man and you're doing it!!

Stay strong man. A lot of people report feeling much better right around the one month mark.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:54 am 
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Hey thought i'd check in for a second. Im doin good but I still have MAD cravings for OC... Also, bought some Kava (that shit SUCKS) Overall I'm doing well, I think I'm just getting used to life totally sober with out the security blanket of Suboxone...


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