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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:01 am 
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im new to subs,after a year of percocet about 10 a day my doctor put me on 8mg a day of subs that was 4 days ago i have not been able to sleep or eat any advice would be great im going nuts


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 Post subject: Dose
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Hi big bore and welcome to the forum. For one, have you told your doctor about not feeling well on that dose? We (I) are not professionals but can only tell you what we have experienced.

8mg's a day for a 10 per day perc habit sounds to me like overkill. I would think 2mg's would be enough or maybe even 4. If it is really bothering you then maybe skip one day and drop your dose and see how you feel. It does take a little while for the body to adjust to the Suboxone. A lot of people have some difficulty in the beginning days.

With Suboxone, less is usually better when you start on it. Then if it doesn't stop the cravings you go up a little more until you hit the right dosage. I am not saying your doctor is wrong but from experience we have found Sub works better when you start low and work up. A lot of Dr.'s do just the opposite including my first Sub Dr. I had to taper down myself until I found the sweet spot.

Once you find the correct dose you will slowly stabilize over the next few days and weeks until you feel completely normal without any opiate cravings. That is the way it is supposed to work.

Hope you feel better soon and Welcome once more to our support forum.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:19 pm 
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dave is it normal not to eat or sleep 4days when starting? and i will try a lower dose.any recomendations on sleep?i can hardly function.thanks for the reply back


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Hi bigbore and WELCOME!!!! I agree with everything that
Rule already said, and think you're dose is a bit high compared to
your habit.
However, I personally would try 4 mg and not less unless you are only
using sub for short term detox. This way you are addressing the cravings
at that dose.
As far as sleep goes, I used melatonin when I couldn't sleep in the first two
weeks of sub treatment. It worked wonderfully for me without having me feel
"hungover" the next day. I took 12mg.
Good luck to you, and I hope you feel better soon. I think you'll be just fine
in a few days when your body adjusts to the medication. Hang in there and
Take care~

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:45 pm 
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big bore wrote:
dave is it normal not to eat or sleep 4days when starting? and i will try a lower dose.any recomendations on sleep?i can hardly function.thanks for the reply back


Those are normal symptoms for someone on too high of a dose. How was your transition from percocets to sub on the first day? Was it easy? Or did you go into full wds? Also, did you take the whole 8mg pill at once on your first day?

As for the sleep, there are natural & over the counter options but my guess is that you'll have to tough it out a bit. You should force yourself to eat something, especially at night. Sleeping on an empty stomach is not good for sleep. Hang in there, you just need to adjust your dose.. most likely.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:07 pm 
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If you're taking your Suboxone past 4pm or 5pm, that could be keeping you awake. I know when I took my dose past 4pm, I wouldn't sleep well, I felt "wired."

Also, like Rule said, it sounds like your dose is too high.

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 Post subject: cant sleep
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:48 pm 
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dave i waited till i was 48 hours in full withdraw before taking the 8mg sub i was very sick when i got to the sub doctor he first gave me 4mg then 45 min later gave me 4 more and said try that and take another half later if i didnt feel alot better.i didnt take anymore. i was wandering since i have been taking 8mg for 4 days will it make me sicker to try half that amount?just wandering and thanks every one for the help.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:06 pm 
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Going to 4mg definitely will not get you sick. Sub is one hell of a powerful drug. I would take 4mg first thing in the morning. If that doesn't work after a few days I would go down to 2.

When you said you were on 10 Percs a day, do you mean the 5mg ones? Because even 4mg of Sub a day would be a higher opiate equivalent than 50mg oxycodone. I really think you will feel much better on a lower dose. But, like Rule said, we're not doctors, just people with a lot of experience being on Sub.
Good luck,
Lilly


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 Post subject: subs
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:19 pm 
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they were 10mg percs lilly after 4 days of 8mgs of subs you dont think it will make me worse to go to 2 or 4 mg?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:58 pm 
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Hi Big Bore!

I'm gonna have to agree with what the others have said here... I think your dose is too high too. I don't think that you're gonna get sick or feel much different going to 2 or 4mg now, even after 4 days of 8 mg sub. When I started, about 5 months ago, I took a full 8mgs and I didn't sleep well, had nausea, dizziness occasionally, and headaches. On the 5th day I took half my dose and that's pretty much where I've been since, 4mgs.

I don't have those side affects anymore, and I started to feel better with everything about a week into it, once I stabalized and found "my perfect dose" of 4mgs.

I do agree with Romeo about taking it early too and not too late in the evening. I actually messed up yesterday and forgot my dose in the morning so I took it around 5pm yesterday... well, I couldn't go to sleep until about 1am last night and that sucks. I could not settle down and I thought about it today and realized that it was probably because I took my dose so much later in the evening, but of course it may not have been that... but, that's the only thing I did differently. The sub is a very, very powerful drug and since I'm used to taking 4mgs as soon as I wake up, that's what my body is used to.

Just so you know, my DOC was hydrocodone, so not much different than percs and I was taking 20+ 10mg hydro's a day, so I really have to agree that 8mgs is probably too high for what your habit was.

I hope you get to feeling better! Just try lowering your dose a little, and after a couple days you should feel better. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:04 pm 
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^ I think you should try 4mgs first and see how you feel. The good thing about taking less, is you can always chip up if you are feeling dope sick. If you have chills, sneezing, achy, lethargic.. etc. But seeing as you are sleepless & have no appetite, it sounds like too much. 4mgs is still a good dose and I'd venture to guess it would be a better amount for you. You can always go down or up from there. You haven't been on it long enough to need to chip/ taper down.

Just pay attention to symptoms. We all know what it feels like to be dope sick, clearly that's not what you're feeling, you'd know. So the most likely scenario is that you have too much opiate in your system which is can decrease appetite, cause nausea, and give you a wired feeling/ sleeplessness.


Honestly, it's a shame your doctor didn't wait a little bit longer to see how the 4mgs would treat you. 45 mins isn't long enough for a first dose to really sink in.


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 Post subject: subs
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:20 pm 
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should i take the 4mg at ont time or split into 2 take 2mg in morn and 2mg in the evening?i take my dose at 400 am and by late evening im feeling the withdrawl efect again.i started thinking if the withdrawl feeling could make me not sleep to...im not sure i just started this program...i was sick as hell the day i went to sub doc,cold chills,sweating,runny nose eyes tearing just awful......Thanks for all the suport im geting here it makes me feel a little better


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:58 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]If it were me bigbore, I would split the dose. And remember, like Romeo and Invis already said,
don't take it too close to bedtime. That kept me up too!! Good Luck![/font]

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 Post subject: Sleep
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:51 pm 
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I have not been taking Suboxone very long, in the first week, I did not sleep ANY. :(

I would also itch when I would try to sleep.

Started taking 25 mg of Benadryl OTC at bedtime.

After a few more days, like 10 or so on Suboxone w/ the Benadryl, I am now sleeping very well.

As other more well versed members have said in other words : less is best when it come to Suboxone. Google it perhaps?
I hope your sleep improves, give it time as I had to, and I think you you start sleeping.

Sincerely,

bxr


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 Post subject: Question?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Big bore. Do you know how Subooxne works? I would investigate, why they are all saying exactly the same thing. This site has all the information you need. Best to investigate any drug that is going to effect your life. I think they very much over killed you. Sound like you are a quick withdrawal and shouldn't be on it very long. I don't quite understand why they placed you on suboxone instead of tapering off the weaker of the two?

Less is best because for you to ever come off this new drug mean withdrawals. Have to pay the piper. But, if you are one who need life time medication because you are not able to quit drugs. Then balancing on the least amount is vital.

I wish you luck. Call and talk with your Dr. Hopefully, your's will be competent.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Like some other members mentioned... I'd try a dose reduction. I'd also make sure to not take any Sub close to bed time. It'd be ideal if you only dosed once in the morning.

It can be hard to want to reduce your dose if you've come straight out of taking whatever pills you needed, and esp if the Suboxone is providing a slight "buzz" as it does for people new on Sub who are put on too high a dose. But trust me, reducing your dose will pay off huge dividends in the future. It's perhaps wise to think of long term gains over short term pleasure, as hard as it can be.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Just figured I'd update this thread with Big Bore's new thread in "stopping suboxone"

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7619

I believe he is suboxone free at this time.


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 Post subject: Be patient
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Well the best advice I can give is to be patient. I am on day 27 and still trying to find the right dose for me. I was abusing hydrocodone, taking 20+ 10mg pills/day. I was started out on 16mg suboxone/day and after a week I was sleeping constantly. After doing some research I found out that my dose was way too high. I had told my dr that I thought my dose was too high and he just said my body would adjust. So I had to experiment and try to find my dose. Which is also frustrating because the sub stays in your system so long, it takes 3-4 days to know if the dose is right for you. So after almost a month, I'm still experimenting. I would advise you that if he tells you to stay on a high dose, just say ok and keep the extra. I've got loads of it because my dr insisted that I need to be on 16mg/day. Right now I'm on 4mg and just waiting to see if it is enough. Just be patient and try not to get frustrated, I almost gave up a couple times, but thankfully I'm still hanging on. Wish you luck and great success!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:42 am 
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Took me weeks and weeks to figure the sleep thing out , in fact I've never slept the same as when I was abusing Tramadol. Right now is a tough time for anyone with sleep problems because of time changes and so much less sunlight . When I first started taking Suboxone I remember if I took to much I would feel like throwing up ... I've been taking Suboxone now for 5 yrs , I'm no rookie .... Suboxone is a MAJOR life change , give your brain a break , be patient .... Good Luck , Mike ( 1-2 mg per day)


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 Post subject: taper asap
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:41 am 
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I agree with some of the posts .... 10 perks a day requires about .5 mgs a day of sub to maintain
thats right .5 -.25mg a day to maintain. go to robt325 post or take exacto knife and cut into 16 pieces .... take a sliver only when you cant take it no more. Sleep ... get some ambian if you can otherwise tough it out. priority now should be getting to proper maintenance dose. 12 step programs and pray


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