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 Post subject: New to suboxone
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:26 pm 
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Hello to the suboxone nation!!!!!!!! I started my sub 8 days ago. The dr. has me on 8 mgs. twice a day. I am only taking approximately 10 mgs and that is enough for me. I am kinda planning on staying on this dosage unless told otherwise. Does it come a time when I need to up my dosage for instance, will my tolerance get to where i need more or does this drug have a tolerance like other opiates? My main question is for the people that has been on subs for an extended period of time like a couple of years. Do you have any side effects after being on it this long? I have seen a lot of people posting on how they cant wait to get off of this medicine and how very difficult it is to get off. I am trying to gather all the info I can now so I can prepare myself down the road. I know one major issue is if you need to have surgery when on this, thats a bad deal. I just recently had prostate surgery 5 months ago and thank god i wasnt on this then. But really the surgery just kinda pushed me in this direction. I was on pain meds for 3 years prior for my back and when i got the big doses of dilaudid and demerol while in the hospital, it was useless to go back on my regular dosage of lortabs to try and combat the pain. By this point my tolerance had been built up so much that taking 8-10, 10-500's wasnt touching my pain so i saw where this was headed and thats when i decided to get on this. So far everything is going well. Just want to see if someone can shed a little light on my particular circumstance, Thanks in advance for any responses. thogan :)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Hi thogan...I've been on Sub for 3.5 years. Tapering down now and getting ready for the big jump in the next 3 months or so.

My ONLY side-effect these 3.5 years was drowsiness. I never ever got used to it. I could nod off at the drop of a hat! My doctor said it was just my body chemistry and some folks react that way.
You are wise to stay on the lowest dose possible to control your cravings and w/d symptoms. With Sub, less is more.

And no, the way it was explained to me, you never develop a tolerance for Sub and have to increase the dosage. Only if you are prescribed it for pain management would you perhaps need to up the dosage. For addiction, there is supposed to be no tolerance issues.

Sub is a great med for a lot of people. It helped me break my Lortab addiction and the accompanying depression that comes from chronic pain issues. I do not regret going on it as it did what it was supposed to do for me. My doctor told me I could be on it the rest of my life but I would know if the time ever came to get off. He was right...I started feeling the need to taper about 3 months ago and actually started a month ago.

Listen to your body and do what you feel is best for you.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Hey thogan, welcome to the forum.

You are indeed wise to search out information on Suboxone. We should research ANY med our doctors want us take.

ClearAqua did a great job answering your questions, I would like to add that if you have been taking 8 to 10 Lorcet 10's per day, then the 10mg of Suboxone you're on should be plenty. You may even be able to get by with less? I wouldn't be too worried about dropping my dose just yet though. If/when you decide you want to take less, what I'm about to say may come in handy. Suboxone has a celing effect, meaning once you cross a certain dosage level, all of your opiate receptors are full anyway, so taking anymore usually isn't really beneficial.....unless you use it for pain management. The number most everyone agrees on for the ceiling is 4mg of Suboxone. 4mg is NOT a hard number, we're all different. It's just a good ballpark number. As long as you're over 4mg, you're opiate receptors should be taken care of.

You should certainly talk about ANY dose adjustments with your doctor first!!

As for it being difficult to get off of Suboxone, it certainly can be....most people employ a taper regiment to get off of suboxone and this helps greatly. Regular opiates are nearly impossible to taper off of, not so with Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Romeo, you are such a nice person :)

I agree that opiates are almost impossible to get off! I could not do it...my doctor kept trying to taper me off Lortabs and I kept getting sick and just could not do it. He kept saying "You can do this" and I kept coming back every 2 weeks for a new prescription saying "No, I can't". I shudder to think of what I would've gone thru without Sub.

And now, the time has come to taper and it is not that bad. I feel much better this afternoon than I did this morning (after my afternoon 2 mgs). It's just a matter of going slowly and not going too fast once you get down to the low doses.

I have to say that this forum has been such a blessing for me to find. The people have been incredibly kind and there does not seem to be the "black hole" folks here :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:24 am 
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Aw shucks ClearAqua, I think you're nice too! :oops: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:41 am 
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Hello Thogan and welcome to the forum and to suboxone treatment,

To answer your question about tolerance...No, one does not develop a tolerance to suboxone - you will never have to increase your dosage to obtain the same effect. This is because of the ceiling effect. The only time that would not apply would be if you take it for pain and you're not getting enough pain relief, but again - that hasn't anything to do with tolerance, it's only about finding the right (highest) dosage that you need to address your pain. 10 mg might be enough to address your pain, or it might not be. When taking sub for addiction only, it's best to dose only once per day. When taking it for pain, it's usually necessary to dose 2 or 3 times a day (sub's pain properties only last on average about 6 hours). If taking say 5 mg twice a day is sufficient to address your pain, then that may be all you need.

When it comes to having surgery on suboxone, usually for post-op pain we do need a higher than normal dose of full agonists ("regular" pain meds) to address that pain. Some people still have trouble getting pain relief, others do not. Just depends on the person.

I've been on suboxone for over 2 years and other than the occasional constipation (which has never really disrupted my life) and some hot flashes/sweats, I've had no problems, and I take between 16-24 mg and also dose for both addiction and pain.

I hope this sheds some light on some of your concerns/questions. If you have more, just ask away. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:00 am 
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It took about 2 years for the major side effects to hit me. Constipation, dry mouth, tired, apathetc, back pain, loss of appetite, etc. The thing that I am wondering about is how doctors decide on a dose. I mean 10mg is so random and very high. I would suggest trying a lower dose and see how you feel. The lower, the better. Less side effects and easier taper in the end. I was on abou 180mg oxy a day before my doctor put me on 4mg subutex, 2mg morning, 2mg night. That was more then enough. 10 is a big number. Just my 2 cents.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:10 am 
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Actually 10 mg is not necessarily that high of a dose, especially if one is dosing for pain. Dosing is based on what amount it takes to address all of one's withdrawal symptoms and just as important how much it takes to address all of their cravings. Yes, it's a good idea to be taking the lowest dose possible to address both withdrawals and cravings, but if one is on too low a dose then it sort of defeats the purpose of being on sub at all. And if the cravings are not properly suppressed then obviously the person is at risk of relapse. As for the lower the dose being easier to taper off later on down the road - it depends on what you mean by "easier". It might take longer, but there's no evidence that the higher the dose or the longer one is on it the harder it is to come off it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:34 pm 
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I am grateful for all the responses. I need to clear up my dose Im taking. I am taking 10 mgs a day but this is on my own accord. He actually prescribed 16 mgs a day. 8 in the morning and 8 in the evening. I decided after reading a lot on these forums that i dont want to take more than necessary. I am going to try and stay at this dose but in the near future cut it back to 8 mgs a day. Thanks again. You all have been really helpful. Thogan :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:15 am 
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I think that's a good plan to stay at as low a dose as possible, I believe you'll be fine at 8mg whenever you decide to get there.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:58 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Hello Thogan and welcome to the forum and to suboxone treatment,

To answer your question about tolerance...No, one does not develop a tolerance to suboxone - you will never have to increase your dosage to obtain the same effect. This is because of the ceiling effect. The only time that would not apply would be if you take it for pain and you're not getting enough pain relief, but again - that hasn't anything to do with tolerance, it's only about finding the right (highest) dosage that you need to address your pain. 10 mg might be enough to address your pain, or it might not be. When taking sub for addiction only, it's best to dose only once per day. When taking it for pain, it's usually necessary to dose 2 or 3 times a day (sub's pain properties only last on average about 6 hours). If taking say 5 mg twice a day is sufficient to address your pain, then that may be all you need.

When it comes to having surgery on suboxone, usually for post-op pain we do need a higher than normal dose of full agonists ("regular" pain meds) to address that pain. Some people still have trouble getting pain relief, others do not. Just depends on the person.

I've been on suboxone for over 2 years and other than the occasional constipation (which has never really disrupted my life) and some hot flashes/sweats, I've had no problems, and I take between 16-24 mg and also dose for both addiction and pain.

I hope this sheds some light on some of your concerns/questions. If you have more, just ask away. :)


I wish I had known this forum when I first went on subs. You (Hatmaker) and many of the others are so helpful, and so knowledgable it would have been so helpful to me to know so much of this information! Thogan, I'm glad you came here while just starting, b/c I think you will be given so much helpful knowledge to help you have a safe journey on subs. I for one, am so thankful for suboxone, as I trully believe it saved my life! I was taking tramadols for pain, then because I was addicted, and subs took me back to reality and gave me my life back. It was a great experience for me, and even now though I'm tapering off, I will always be thankful I had the oppurtunity to get off of my DOC safely, and without any problems or stress. Good luck to you!! There are so many people here that are going to be of great resource and help to you!

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 Post subject: How long to use subutex
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:21 am 
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I want to know how long it is necessary to take subutex after starting? Is it possible to only take it 2-3 weeks or less and be successful? Being on subutex for the shortest period of time, does it help weaken wds? Thanks to anyone who can answer. Renamae


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:40 am 
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Hi renamae,

If your opiate history is extremely short, as in months or weeks, then short term Suboxone/Subutex use would be OK.

Do you feel like sharing a little of your story with us? I would like to know how long you were on opiates, what ones you took and how many you took per day, again, only if you don't mind sharing, OK?

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 Post subject: Thogan and Hatmaker
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:13 am 
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Thogan, welcome. This is a very supportive place and loaded with info.

l i v i n kinda already described what my side effects were. It took a while, but I kinda lost interest in everything, but now that I'm tapering off, those things are coming back. Try to stay at as low a dose as possible. This med has a 37.5 hour half life, so even if you are taking 4 mg a day (which I know you aren't) it keeps stacking up in your system because it's going in faster than it's coming out. So after three days at 4 mg, a person would have over 8 mg in their body. Does that make sense?

Hat, doesn't the amount in your system keep increasing, as people generally dose each day, and what you took from the previous days is still in your body. I'm just wondering how this affects things, including not having to raise our doses and all. Our doses are always being raised anyway, right? I'm thinking if anyone can answer this, it's probably you. Thanks, I'd really appreciate it.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:15 am 
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Diary of a Quitter just tried to link us to a chart an old member created for the stacking effect but it's no longer available. It took into consideration many things like individual absorption rates, metabolism, etc etc. Unfortunately, I can't explain the stacking effect exactly but yes, it does build up in the system more than just the half-life and that does have an effect on withdrawals, especially if the person tapers quickly. Sorry I can't give more info. I'm pretty sure DOQ has a bit of a better understanding of the stacking effect than I do.

renamae said: I want to know how long it is necessary to take subutex after starting? Is it possible to only take it 2-3 weeks or less and be successful? Being on subutex for the shortest period of time, does it help weaken wds? Thanks to anyone who can answer.

Like Romeo said, in part it depends on your entire addiction history. But understand that short term sub use has an extremely high rate of relapse. If you take sub for a very short period of time, it just helps you to taper off your drug of choice, not just w/d from sub. Think of it this way, we addicts can almost NEVER taper off our DOC, but we CAN taper off sub, that's why it's so helpful to us as a detox med as well as maintenance.

I hope this helps you, but if you have more questions, please just ask away.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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