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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:10 pm 
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OpenMind wrote:
As a suggestion for those of you who might be having absorption issues, about 5 days ago I started rinsing my mouth with really warm water before inserting the sub. This will help to open the blood vessels and capillaries which is essential for optimal absorption. I've actually noticed an improvement in how long the dose lasts doing it this way. It's allowed me to set aside some medicine for emergencies.

I can't speak to the issue of the quality of the strips out of personal experience, but I think it would be worth your time to at least try doing it this way for a while and see if you notice any improvement at all. The medicine is so expensive that I need to make it last as much as I can. I should note here that I still don't get a buzz, although I have been feeling a little sleepier doing it this way. The real difference seems to be in how long it suppresses my WD symptoms. That is what's important to me.

- OM


That's smart! I have been on the films for 4 years, I celebrate 4 years sober in September, and I have always had a couple sips of water before I put in my film because it definitely does help your saliva along in the process of dissolving it but I never thought about using warm water to increase absorption but it makes sense. I know my doctor told me when I had to use the generic tablets for a couple months, because of ins issues, that you shouldn't talk or drink or eat for at least 15 mins after dissolving because your saliva is still super potent with the medication and letting it escape means less in your blood stream and more in your tummy which decreases absorption. I've always had a problem with not swallowing some of the liquid though and it makes my tongue numb lol.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:07 am 
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Grateful_Mommy wrote:
I did notice the new packaging but I also noticed that my boxes now list a company called Indivior as the mfgr rather than Reckitt Beckinser. What is that about? Not sure about any decrease in strength because I haven't noticed any but the other guy was right, legally if they were altering the formulation your doctor would be required to tell you and the mfgr would be required to tell the doctor and the public about it.


Reckitt Benckeiser spun off a new company called Indivior back in 2016 or so...

I guess they wanted to separate the laundry soap, mouthwash, and toothpaste division from the opioid MAT division...mostly done for financial reasons (both are UK companies)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Correct. The films are stronger and more easily absorbed. Generic anything is always going to be weaker. When I switched to generic Suboxone and subutex years back I hated them. But that's just my experience. Some people love them and hate the films. Im having a much better experience after switching back to my old pharmacy. Every film has been excellent. Mind you I don't and can't get any recreational high out of any bupe products but I take them for addiction as well as pain. I was hurting bad to the point of withdrawal for two weeks.think my films went bad from sweltering heat. It was bad enough to get me complaining and begging for answers here. Its a good place for support,info ,feedback and good positive discussion. Thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:49 pm 
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I never said that they altered the medication. I said they changed the packaging it comes in. The wrappers are easier to open. My theory and I'm pretty sure the original poster's theory,... Being as though some of us have had issues with the quality of our subs, impacting our lives in a negative way,... Is that the new package lets in some air. Its just that we have had troubles for the last few months have noticed that the package is different and think that our issues may be due to this fact. I have always noticed differences from day to day or sub to sub, piece to piece. Their are manufacturing issues I firmly believe. Nobody has to agree. My doc switched me to zubsolv last year. He told me same medication, same ingredients as films. Same results right. Wrong. I became a chronic alcoholic one month after the switch. It took six months to convince him to switch me back. Did you know many people get broken and cracked films. That's a production issue. The ladies on the phone at induvior or reckitt whatever the fuck you or they want to call themselves, will tell you that it is. Pharmacists told some clients the cracks are to let you know where to cut or break them. Tell me that's ethical. 120 oxy scripts.... With every pill the same. What a concept. Induvior should do the same. But they don't ensure quality because they can't and know that with their manufacturing process it would be impossible to do so. It just seems unethical. No other medication is like this. An opiate replacement for chronic pain and addiction should be even more important in my opinion. If you ever get shitty subs for an entire month you'll feel my pain and know the struggle is real k.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Sleeves15 wrote:
I never said that they altered the medication. I said they changed the packaging it comes in. The wrappers are easier to open. My theory and I'm pretty sure the original poster's theory,... Being as though some of us have had issues with the quality of our subs, impacting our lives in a negative way,... Is that the new package lets in some air. Its just that we have had troubles for the last few months have noticed that the package is different and think that our issues may be due to this fact. I have always noticed differences from day to day or sub to sub, piece to piece. Their are manufacturing issues I firmly believe. Nobody has to agree. My doc switched me to zubsolv last year. He told me same medication, same ingredients as films. Same results right. Wrong. I became a chronic alcoholic one month after the switch. It took six months to convince him to switch me back. Did you know many people get broken and cracked films. That's a production issue. The ladies on the phone at induvior or reckitt whatever the fuck you or they want to call themselves, will tell you that it is. Pharmacists told some clients the cracks are to let you know where to cut or break them. Tell me that's ethical. 120 oxy scripts.... With every pill the same. What a concept. Indivior should do the same. But they don't ensure quality because they can't and know that with their manufacturing process it would be impossible to do so. It just seems unethical. No other medication is like this. An opiate replacement for chronic pain and addiction should be even more important in my opinion. If you ever get shitty subs for an entire month you'll feel my pain and know the struggle is real k.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Sleeves15 wrote:
Correct. The films are stronger and more easily absorbed. Generic anything is always going to be weaker.


I don't believe that this is universally true. Generics use the same active ingredient as the original formulation. I do agree that bioavailability can be different from drug to drug in cases like buprenorphine. I just don't agree with the above blanket statement.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:21 pm 
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Check your facts. Generic makers retain the right to make their medications with 80 percent of the strength. So generally to save on cost they make their versions up to 20 percent weaker.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:24 pm 
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And yes I know you're going to say same ingredients. Another betrayal of ethics. Yes it happens with vicodin and morphine in generic versions. Im pretty sure bupe isn't an exception


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:25 pm 
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No, generics are not always weaker than name brands. I think I read somebody alluding to bio-availability.

Different people really do have different experiences with name brand versus generic and Suboxone vs Zubsolv vs Bunavail vs Subutex.

All that said, I have heard a lot of complaints regarding the new generic Suboxone tabs and packaging.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:01 am 
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I've been on Suboxone film since around 2012 when it first came out. All together, I've been on Suboxone since 2008, so I have some time that stands behind what I say when I say this....
I've probably had 60 months + of films...which is some 1800 films or so...

I've never had any issues like that since I have been on them. I've noticed cracks and such. But it's nothing that has affected my life adversely.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Generice aren't always weaker. They generally are and legally can be is what I'm saying Bupatron. You transformed into a bupehead. Jk. There's too much confusion on this forum. We were talking about the films and their new packaging not pills. The film wrappers are easy opening now and the original author thought he was having withdrawal because of. Which is interesting cuz I and many others have felt the same way. You guys satisfied with generic subutex. Do your thing. I never liked them. But I'm not liking the weaker strips we seem to be getting. Used to take quarters now three halves a day. Something isn't right. You guys got answers or on topic convo or just random nonsense that has nothing to do with it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:18 am 
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People have complained more about the generics than I've ever seen about the films. Especially the Zubsolv and actavis brand Suboxone.

How was his response
Quote:
"random nonsense that has nothing to do with it"

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:18 am 
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This topic had already been discussed to death and kept getting bumped bk up over and over by u. All we can do here is give an opinion, u received many about the strips.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:12 pm 
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I'll just add one more thing and then I'm done arguing. Here is a quote explaining the 20% variation in strength that Sleeves may be alluding to. A generic can't be 20% weaker. It can be 10% weaker. It can be 10% stronger or 10% weaker and that's where Sleeve is coming up with 20%:

"MrMouse, your Pharmacist friend if quoted correctly is not correct in that generic drugs may differ from brand name by 10% not 30%. Some confusion lies in the allowance for one generic drug to be 10% higher in the patient's blood stream for example than its brand name counterpart and another generic drug may be 10% lower. These two specific generic drugs then could be said to be 20% different from each other, but not to the brand name drug. The 30% is not correct in any sense of it's usage.
I hope this clarifies some of the mystery. Richshav, BSPharm"

The second quote is from an article abstract from a study regarding the efficacy of epileptic drugs between brand name and generics:

"In conclusion, a significant interday variability in intrapatient LTG, LEV and TPM plasma concentrations can be observed even in patients stabilized with the same brand name product over time. This suggests that any change in plasma AED concentration and possible related clinical effects after generic substitution may be not necessarily related to the switch."

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:20 pm 
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My problem was that the films stopped working. Generics suck in my opinion. I too said I used to be on zubsolv and it was horrible. I appreciate the feedback. My main point was films aren't the way they used to be. I guess to find out why id have to talk to the people that make them. This script has been better than the last few months. Some pieces though, like the one I just had dissolve too quickly and have no flavor. Could be cause of improper placement. I know they say it doesn't matter where it dissolves as long as its in your mouth. I always have better luck if its in the sweet spot. Sorry if I offended anyone. I am just super anal about my subs. It sucks when the doses don't work the way they should. I was just hoping there would be more people who could relate. I was basically drawn to this because of the original post. I could relate to it. Too bad for me everybody who replied to the first post said shit like if ur putting it in your cheek stop. Wait nobody said they were. They said the packaging causes the subs to be weaker now. I agreed. Why are some pieces of sub good and some bad. Its not cuz we expect it to be that way.its not in our heads. Its cuz your supposed miracle drug has flaws.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:42 pm 
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It's interesting that you say "Sorry if I offended anyone." Then your last sentence is completely offensive.

"Its cuz your supposed miracle drug has flaws."

I don't know anyone on this forum who thinks that buprenorphine doesn't have flaws. You are putting words into our mouths and insinuating that you are so much smarter than us for recognizing negative side effects.

What a great way to shut down discourse. It's obvious to me that you are here to troll and stir up trouble. If you keep trying to get your not-so-subtle digs in, you will eventually step so far over the line that we have no recourse except to ban you. You can consider this a warning.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:22 pm 
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See what I am saying. Or at least I hope you can. Even without the edge being torn, its completely see through. The whole last script was that way. They were completely shot. Its horrible. Ppl who are going through induction who get these from they're pharmacy probably go back to shooting dope with medicine that looks like this. Its sad and unethical.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Sleeve, I don't doubt that you're seeing a difference in your films. I've never questioned that. It could very well be a quality control issue. I have no way of knowing.

I would suggest that you follow through with the FDA and make a complaint. If you're feeling cruddy on the films that don't look right you have every right to complain about it. You can contact the company directly, too, although I don't know how much good that would do.

I just want to make the point that we are not lemmings here. We wouldn't have a posting category called "Side Effects" if we were blind to the fact that buprenorphine has side effects. Give us a little credit.

I'm on Zubsolv and have been for 3 years or so. I had to bump up my dose a bit to maintain what was equivalent to my dose on the films. My doctor had no problem with that, so I've never had a problem with the medication.

I get that you're frustrated and I wish I could do something to help. Maybe the next time you get a script you could open one of the films in front of the pharmacist and ask for a different box if the films look strange.

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:59 am 
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Image too...large? Barely can tell where Sub begins and fingers end. Either resize, or smaller photo.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Yeah Sleeves I agree, and I think ur trying to argue over something that isn't going to ever give u an answer ur satisfied with. And u do seem to be insulting to ppl who's truly took the time to answer ur question.

There's a lot of us on this forum familiar with the strips. It's pretty much the only form of buprenorphine I've had for almost 6 years. Amy's had the strips before, Jonathan has been taking them longer than me.... we are experienced with them. U can't be the only person getting strips that are considered different. I've had strips that are brittle looking, I've saw spots more in some than others, we aren't trying to say that some strips may look different at times than others. What I'm saying is that I've never noticed a difference in strength. I've never gotten a strip, even if it looks different, that didn't work for me. That's all I'm saying. The pic u posted looks like a normal strip to me.

I like the suggestion of letting the pharmacist see a strip that u feel isn't the same as ur used to. That's all I can think of in order for u to get answers that's going to satisfy u.

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