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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:13 pm 
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Hi everyone. I'm brand new here. Just started Suboxone on Wednesday so I guess this is day 5 for me. I have issues with chronic pain due to migraines and disc degeneration in my back. I had gotten to a point in my life where i thought that I would not be able to function on a daily basis without pain meds. I work full time, I'm a wife, and a mother and I'm in pain every day- some days I can function but some days I could barely get out of bed. Anyways, the pain meds became a problem and I got to a point where I didn't want to live my life like that anymore. I've had so much fear and worry though about the pain. It's not just about breaking an addiction to the meds. My biggest fear has been, how the hell do I manage my pain?? My pain management doctor has high hopes for the suboxone and the research I've done (although admittedly it's been minimal) suggests that suboxone will help.
I've been experiencing some interesting things the past few days and I'm not quite sure what it all is. I've put in a few calls to my doctor but haven't been able to reach him yet. Let me start by saying that I already had some sleep issues and those have worsened. I have not had a full night sleep since starting the subs. On average, I've only been getting a couple of hours of sleep a night so I'm pretty damn tired and that's definitely effecting me. The hard part then is that I don't know if I'm feeling the way I am because I'm sleep deprived, from the subs, withdrawal, etc...
So I've had times where I feel lightheaded, woozy, nauseous, kinda out of it. I obviously have been feeling really tired, although I think the subs make me really tired too.
I feel very confused about when to take my subs through all this. I've been getting some pain and I don't know if I should be taking my subs to deal with that or not (again, another think to talk to the doc about). I've also been having cravings I guess but much different than my drug cravings from before which is good. Even after I take my suboxone, I often want more or feel like I need more. I'm guessing that is still my drug addict brain talking right? But is there any chance that my body is actually telling me I need more? I'm such an over-thinker. I think I'm probably making this much harder than it needs to be.
At this point, I am very hopeful that Suboxone will be what I need. I'm still trying to figure out some of the dosing issues. I need to talk to my doctor further in more detail about when to take it and how much. I'm unclear what to do if I do get a bad headache or backache. Does anyone else with chronic pain issues know? Has anyone else been advised by their doctor? Also, I have noticed that at times I get a little bit of the sensation of a 'head high' from the suboxone. It's brief and only some of the time. From what I'm reading online, that's normal, but I'm wondering what other peoples experiences has been. Does that go away once I get used the medication?? I must admit that I've enjoyed it when it has happened although it has been rare. I'm a little worried that I'm chasing that feeling now and hoping it will come back again.
Thank you everyone!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:41 pm 
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So I'm on day 15. I also have chronic pain that started my oxy use which turned into me taking wayyyy too much oxy and becoming an addiction. I had fears that the suboxone would help with the addiction but what about the pain. So again I'm only 15 days into suboxone treatment but I can tell you this so far: the first week I had horrible headaches, since then and getting the sub dose correct and steady, the headaches have mostly gone away. Also the pain was still bad the first 4 or 5 days but for the most part that is a lot better now, especially with aleve and Motrin. I was just writing in my post under intros that my mom told me today I seem 100 times better then I did a week ago, in terms of I seemed drunk and out of it at first. Hopefully this helps you to see its normal what you're feeling and it WILL get better over time. I've been splitting my dose in half and taking each half about 7-8 hrs apart which has been working well with the pain and the groggy feeling. It takes a few days when you make a change for your body to adjust everything. Did you say what your chronic pain was? I also take gabapentin 3 times a day, which is non narcotic to help with the nerve pain I think? It was something every doc I've seen has pushed me to take. When I was on tons of oxys it made no difference but now that I'm not it really seems to help with my neck pain. Hang in, you'll figure these things out as you go. If you take too much sub one day, you'll know it!!! You'll feel like crap and in pain, that's been my experience anyway. Good luck, you came to the right place, lots of extramly helpful people here!!! :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:48 pm 
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Oh also, have you gotten cortizone shots at pain management? Those could be of help too for the pain part. I had three total and for me they made a difference, even when I was loading up on oxys. The oxys had gotten to the point where they weren't helping with pain anymore, they were just keeping me "normal" or what I thought was normal. The cortizone shots kept me from laying in bed at night crying I was in so much pain!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:55 pm 
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Sorry for so many replies, I keep reading back over what you wrote. For the sleep part, possibly check with your doc about taking one klonipin at night. My sub doc prescribed that and it helps me. In the past I had to take 6-8 soma just to sleep at night and keep my muscles from going crazy with spasms so one klonipin is a lot better I'd think!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Thank you for your responses, Emmy. I appreciate it. I'm feeling pretty good for the most part. My pain is being really well managed with the subs. I have really bad headaches and migraines as well disc degeneration in my back. I've still been having some minor issues but nothing all that bad. Most of all, I haven't had the crazy obsessive thoughts and cravings that usually seem to consume my mind. That has been an amazing blessing in itself. I still take a daily mild muscle relaxer and something preventative for my headaches. I'm just glad that I'm mostly not feeling like a prisoner of the drugs anymore,
I do really want to talk to my doctor about the dosage and when to take it. It seems like everyone on here is taking such different amounts and at such different intervals. I just want to make sure I'm doing what's best for me. I'm at 16mg/ day. Doc wants me to take 8mg as needed basically- he had me divide it into 4s and 2s and test out which works best. I'm supposed to take it when I feel my body start to go into with drawls. Problem is that I really don't feel the withdrawals anymore. I do however feel a bunch of other physical symptoms that make me wonder. That's why I've been calling my doctor the past few day in the hope of getting more info on this from him. I don't want to take too much but I also don't want to not take enough. I'm sort of confused by the whole process. I don't have a clear indicator of when I'm supposed to take it.
I mentioned in my first message too that I felt a little head high the first few times I took the subs. Did you experience that? I will honestly admit that I really enjoy that feeling. I was hoping that I would feel again although it doesn't make much sense for suboxone to work that way. I haven't felt that way again though so i'm guessing my body was just acclimating.
Thanks for your support.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:40 pm 
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Yea I did feel that, and still do sometimes which makes me wonder if I was taking too much. It all depends too on how well you let it dissolve under your tongue I think. If you only have it part dissolve and kinda chew or swallow any, then your not getting the full effect. Are you taking the strips or the pills? I'm taking the pills based on price being less. So if I have a half pill (4mg) I need to let it completely dissolve on its own, like starting with a really dry mouth, and barely tasting it till its gone. Usually 20 mins or so. If I move it around and try to speed it up it doesn't work as well. Does that make sense? How are you doing it?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:30 pm 
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I do the strips. That's all my doctor will prescribe. Now I'm wondering if I'm taking it right. I didn't get much info from my doc on actually taking it and the pharmacist was no help other than judging me. I've been putting it under my tongue and letting it dissolve but it happens really fast- like in a few minutes max. Then I just swallow and drink the icky flavor away. I wonder if that's wrong!! I hope someone else who takes the film can give done feedback.
Thanks again for responding, Emmy. It's just nice to know there's someone else out there who cares :) I appreciate it a lot.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:07 am 
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Most people dose the films under the tongue until they are dissolved, which for me, on average took about ten mins or so. however, the medicine in Suboxone can be absorbed through all surfaces of the inside of the mouth, not only under the tongue. Some people place the film between their gum and cheek similar to tobacco(dip) and once it's dissolved a bit, use their tongue to paint the sub around the surfaces inside the mouth and allow it to absorb that way. If you visit suboxonetalkzone. com and use the search feature, enter the words optimizing absorption of buprenorphine, Dr. Junig explains this method in more detail, but adds that after dosing, one should avoid eating or drinking for about fifteen minutes to avoid washing away remaining meds still on mouth surfaces still absorbing. I hope that this helps you.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:09 am 
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That helps A LOT, Lizzie. Thank you :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:04 am 
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Glad to help Palmer. I was just reading back over your thread and some off the issues you were having with dosing, and based on what I've read and learned, Suboxone, when taken for addiction issues is best when dosed once per day, twice at max, and it's long half life and the high dose that you are prescribed should keep you from feeling any real withdrawals that would cause you to need to take more subs. when you have the feeling that you need to take more , Dr. Junig recommends trying ti distract yourself anyway possible for fifteen minutes or so ie, take a walk, wash dishes, watch tv, etc, anything to distract your mind from taking more, this will help to extinguish the old behavior of taking meds every few hours when we would have felt our DOC wearing off. make sense? after a few days of using the distraction method, that feeling of needing to take more should pass. As addicts we are used to the sensation of meds wearing off and having to take more to keep from going thru withdrawal, but the long half life of bupe prevents that from happening, which is what makes it so effective for treating addiction, so some of what you are feeling is likely psychological, leftover addict behavior. for me it passed pretty quickly after realizing that I felt exactly the same whether or not I took more Suboxone. Some people who take it for pain issues do dose more than once daily, but at sixteen mgs,I would think you'd be fine to dose no more than twice daily because you won't feel wds coming on and need to dose. I do not use Suboxone for pain issues, so you should discuss that with your doctor, these are only my suggestions. as for the sleep issues, I had a few at the beginning, so someone here recommended not taking the sub for a few hours before bedtime, as it can be what's keeping you awake. I'd look at that as the first culprit in the insomnia, and try not to dose close to bedtime.

I'm including a link to an article written by Dr. Junig about dosing

http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/optimiz ... bsorption/


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:36 pm 
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What I have gleaned about chronic pain and dosing is that you should split your dose up into 4 doses. The analgesic properties from suboxone subside after about 4 to 6 hours. That is when you should take your next dose. If you were taking one dose of 16 mg that would keep you from craving opiates (and yes, that is a freaking miracle to be free from the obsession!), but it would not give you the pain management you could achieve if you split your dose.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:41 am 
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Palmer

Welcome to the forum! I am also a chronic pain patient. My concern was also pain control on suboxone & I am doing fine. It did take some time to adjust to suboxone (i take the film) & the first couple of weeks were hard because i ended up with kidney stones shortly after starting sub. I kept telling the doctor my back & legs were killing me & i was nauseous. I thought it was w/d until I got really sick (vomiting) & went to urgent care. It turned out to be kidney stones LOL it's funny now but i thought it was the sub not working & the doctor thought i was in precipitated w/d's. Good example of blaming suboxone for everything as Dr J has said.

Anyway, I take my sub film as Amy said. Small doses a up to 4 times a day.Try to take it the same time everyday as you would any other medication. It doesn't work "instantly" for pain but once you are on it a couple of weeks the pain should be very manageable IMHO. I had sleep issues until i changed my dosing. I don't take any sub after 4pm. I would be restless all night & feel crappy the next day. I work FT & yawning all day was not good. It was trial & error for me. There are so many variables in sub treatment. Are you on pills or film, how long you let it absorb, how you let it absorb, do you smoke 5 minutes after putting sub under the tongue, do you drink right away..all these things & more make a difference. In my experience it took a few weeks for me to get used to suboxone...it's hard to explain.

I hope the suboxone works for you as it has for me. Give it some time & try the smaller dose every 4-6 hours to see if that works. Give it some time though-at least a week. For me the changes have been slow on suboxone.

Tiki


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