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 Post subject: New start
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:22 pm 
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Hello. Im new to this but def remember talking about my problems. In my late teens, early twenties i had heroin addiction. Although prob the toughest thing i ever had to go through i finally kicked cold turkey about 8 yrs ago. I promised myself i would never do that again. The withdrawl was so bad it literally scared me for a long time. I had a great, productive 7 yrs of sobriety. Best time of my life. With a couple trips to the dentist and a couple vicodens here and there for pain i never went back to active using. However, somehow in the past yr i have found my way back to opiates and am now on 10 to 15 pill a day norco habbit. Although very bumbed that this has happened again i am hopefull. I really dont want this for myself i just want to go back to the way i was. I will start suboxone in about a day or so and i am convinced that i can do it with a low dose and if i do it quick hopefully minimize the after affects. I watched my best buddy use suboxone way too long and when he came off he was completely screwed. I remember my past like it was yest and know what to expect so im not too scared except for withdrawl. That im terrified off. Everything else i can deal with and i rememeber my sobriety like it was yesterday too. I can still touch it so hopefully because i have something to look forward to i can use the subs to withdrawl only, and then continue my life. Anxiety and depress i can deal w after that no problem ive done it before. wish me luck i will check in here soon. thanx for listening


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:08 am 
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Good luck to you making the jump. Keep me updated

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:59 am 
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thank you i will. Nice to know someones around and read my deal. This is def a strange time to be doing this with Thanksgiving coming in 2 days but i just cant do this anymore. Hopefully my body will accept the subs fine and noone will notice.hahaha


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:40 pm 
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Auto333, welcome to the forum.

You sound like you have a good plan. Suboxone can surely help get you back where you were a year ago. I would absolutely try to keep my dose as low as possible to start with and you are probably a good candidate for a quick taper as well.

Quick taper doesn't mean 3 days, it means cutting your dose on a relatively aggressive schedule which may take months, it may take weeks? You will have to work out that part of it according to your mind and body's response.

Good Luck and keep us up to date!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:53 pm 
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Hi auto333 -

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on starting sub. You've made an excellent decision to take control of your life and stop the chaos. You should be very proud of yourself. I hope you don't mind if I ask for some clarification. You said your friend was on suboxone "way too long" and he was "screwed" because of it. Could you elaborate? Suboxone is a very safe medication and there is no evidence of it doing any long term (or short term) damage. Was s/he one of the very rare few who had bad side effects?

Some people do succeed with rapid tapers, although (and I'm sorry I'm just trying to be honest) the rate of relapse is very high. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you will fail, nor do I want you too. Quite the opposite - I very much want to see you succeed. Romeo gave you good advice when he basically said to have a flexible, albeit short taper. Do what you need to do to remain healthy and stable. You can do this without giving yourself too many deadlines. As he said, listen to your own needs - body and mind/brain.

I hope your induction goes very smoothly. Did your doctor tell you what to expect? Or was your induction today? Please do let us know how it went and how you're feeling. And if you have any questions we'll do our best to help you out.
Again, congratulations and good luck. I know you'll do well. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:51 pm 
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Hey guys. Im feel excited to see people respond to my story. Makes me feel good for sure. So now that i have input id like to ask some questions if i may. Now im a bit confused. 1st to Romeo, thank you. Im glad someone can agree with what i think i see. I can literally feel my sober life it was not long ago. I think i might just be able to go back to it easier than a lot others.Maybe, maybe not who knows. But i do have a question for you. I have read alot on suboxone and know quite a few people that have used it to. Ive also seen their entire journey from beg to end on it. In my opinion and tell me if im wrong, suboxone is a very strong medication. From what i have read thus far an overwhelming amount of people have trouble getting off of it that have been on it a while. Im not a herion addict im not going to take 16mgs of that stuff ill be in for it i know it. What do you suggest.I was going to start super low and just stay there for a few days and then go lower for the remaining time. No more than 7,8 days tops. I dont want that stuff in my system too long i do not want to end up like the rest of the stories ive been reading. Does this plan sound ridiculous?Than you for your guidance.
- 2nd to hatmaker510. Thank you so much for your input as well. No i was going to start today. I waited all day literally to start feeling withdrawl. I was so frustrated. I didnt feel great but i def wasnt withdrawling either so i didnt want to take it in fear of inducing illness. My last use was yest at 10pm and i waited all day till 530 and nothing. No sickness ijust dont get it. So ill prob have to see what happens after the holiday i cant be doing this tomorrow. Also, i said my buddy was screwed because he pretty much was. He was withdrawling from it bad for a while. He didnt have a heroin problem he took pills. Not to say its any better but i had a heroin addiction and i will say im alot more confortable being in the position i am now than if i was back to the way i was 8 rys ago thats for sure. I think his doc put him on way too high a dose and weened him too fast and made him jump off at 2mgs. Totaling 3 weeks. He had a tough time i remember. After seeing that i knew i would have to use it to withdraw and get out quick. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you so much.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:03 am 
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I get the sense that you're getting only the horror stories about suboxone. It's perfectly healthy to take it long term. Many of us, myself included, have been on it for years and plan to stay on it. Of course not everyone will do that. Many people will stay on it a year or more and then start their taper when they feel they are stable and ready.

Yes, it will make your opiate tolerance higher, no doubt about that.

Have you read many of the threads on this forum? A lot of people have come here wanting to do a taper over a period of several days only. Unfortunately those people never came back to let us know how they did with it. Like I said, the relapse right is really high when it comes to short term sub treatment. That's not just me saying that, but in reality studies back that up.

Lastly, you said: "I think i might just be able to go back to it easier than a lot others." This is a common problem in the beginning of recovery. So many of us also felt we were "different", not as bad as other addicts. This unfortunately leads to a certain mindset and relapse then sneaks up on that addict. Please keep that in mind. An addict is an addict, no matter what their drug is.

I wish you the very best. I would like to ask you to come back after your 7 or so day taper and let us know how you're doing. This forum could really benefit from your experience.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:36 am 
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auto333,

I'm hesitant at best to offer any more detailed advice than I already did. After reading your last post and your lack of withdrawal symptoms I'm actually confused on what to tell you. Part of me wants to suggest going cold turkey off the norcos due to your lack of wd's, but I don't want you to suffer needlessly either if they do kick in. I know if you do start feeling heavy wd's, you can start the sub at a low dose (2mg or less) and see if that helps and go from there(higher or lower).

As far as being on sub for only 7 or 8 days?? I do not have any experience with that kind of time frame? That does seem awfully, awfully quick. Actually, if I'm going to be honest with you, 7 or 8 days is crazy fast, but again You will be the best judge of how fast you think you can taper down to zero.

You would do well to heed HatMakers advice as well, she has seen a lot more of this than I have. I've been off sub for a little bit and I still read all of HatMakers replies intently because of her knack to hit the nail smack on the head.

Please stay in touch and let us know what you have decided or are doing.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Hello guys thank you so much for input. I appreciate it so very much. Ive allways been real strange with withdraws. Most people i know that have had them say they start getting headaches and runny nose but ive never gotten any of that. Its usually the calm before the storm and then restless leg will set in. Thing is i waited all day and no restless leg and was really frustrated i dont get it. Im not taking any less norco. I guess i will see what happens here. If i wake up and feel like crap you think its ok to take it? Is just feeling like crap enough? I woke this morning feeling like crap but wasnt sure if it could be a time i could take it due to the fact that i wasnt sure it was enough. Also, Hatmaker, you are totally right. Im kinda in another world for sure. Thing is, i was clean for soooooo long i totally forgot about drugs. Not only that i was sure i was untouchable. And i could controll it. Im sure i say that to make myself feel better no doubt. Whats funny is i do remember it like it was yesterday. It wasnt long ago. About a yr. Working out, going to dinner, spending time w/others. And how i felt i can remember how i felt at that time. But i should keep it realistic i went back. Your also right about the horror stories. Most people tell me, dont read the stories on the internet and i kind of got that. Up till now ive prob read 80% horror or some kind of bad story vs. the good so i am freaked in my head a little. Let me ask, what is suboxone for then? Opiate acciction right? But to what degree? Do you have to smoke heroin or take oc's. Is my problem this time around not a candidate? You said my opiate tolerance will go up right? Up from 10 to 15 norc a day tolerance? Im confused no doubt but if alot of other people in my position would just be like " man im just going cold turkey my problems r nowhere near someothers" than are you saying even 1mg suboxone is still too much for someone in my current sit.? Like am i going to have a bigger problem off 2 or even 1mg starting out the gate than i will now i guess thats what im saying.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:21 pm 
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Hey auto333,

You said "Thing is i waited all day and no restless leg and was really frustrated i dont get it. Im not taking any less norco."

It's the "I'm not taking any less norco" statement that has me confused. Just so I understand correctly, you stopped taking your norco...waited 20 hours or so...felt no withdrawal pains. If this is correct then you are right about being a little different when it comes to withdrawal, as far as a direct comparison to me anyway.

Anyhow, if you have NOT taken ANY norco for several hours and start to feel a little crappy you could certainly take a low dose of sub and see how that treats you. I don't believe 1mg of sub would be enough to start you into precipated withdrawal from the norco's if that's part of what your worried about.

The dose you're currently on is almost identical to where I got myself to before I started sub. I stopped taking my Lorcet and within 24 hours started sub(I was feeling withdrawal pains, NO DOUBT), I started at 8mg of sub and it knocked my socks off! I would think you could get by fine at much less than 8mg, but we are all so different it makes it very[sup]2[/sup] hard to give advice that is absolutely guaranteed to be spot on.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Yah thats what im saying. I dont want to put 8mgs of the stuff in my body if i dont have to especially knowing how strong it is and make my tolerance go up. Then ill have a bigger prob right? And i also think its just the body too. Its weird sometimes i wake up and feel like im in full withdraw and sometimes i can chill for 2,3 hrs before i take a norco. Its prob due to how much i took the night before too i would expect. But i was ready to take the subox and everything. I didnt feel great thats for sure but i didnt feel sick either. And i wanted to make sure so i sat around and sat around some more and it never came. I bet had i waited 2 or 3 more hrs it would have hit me its inevitable. The other prob was that by that time so much time had gone by and i wanted to get high. How many more hours do i now wait with this bad craving. Thats what i was thinking. But just answer your question yes i had stopped taking the norco the night before at 10pm. By the time i got frustrated the next day about 17hrs had past so no, not a full 20hrs. If you were at my level why did you take so much? Doc told you too? Thanx for getting back to me i appreciate it. Its helping me.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:28 pm 
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The Dr. told me to take 4mg, but being the good addict that I am I figured if 4mg was good then 8mg would be twice as good. We addicts convince ourselves that we always know better which is hardly ever the case.

I have read a few times on this forum that with short acting opiates such as norco, some people have waited much less than 20 hours and taken their first sub and did fine...it just scares the beejeebees out of me. I don't have first hand experience with a short wait like that.

Maybe another member of the forum will chime in here shortly.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:10 am 
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Yah i hear that i would allways take more than what a doc said if got me high. But not this time. I want to get in out as quick as possible If there is a possible. But i thought you said you were taking lorcets right? Thats fast acting. Same narcotic just more aspirin how long did you have to wait. I think alot of it was psyching myself out. Im sure what i felt was enough because i didnt feel well like i said but i wasnt sick by any means.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:35 am 
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Heres the other thing. Out of pure frustration ive been weening myself too. Ive been steady at about 15 a day for months. Im now at about 5 a day but its only been for a couple days i just made it here. So what does that mean too. That im just taking alot less and im suffering because im not taking what im used to. because i def dont feel right taking a lot less. Lethargic etc... So am i supposed to take 4mgs of sub over this? 5 norco? You know what i mean?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:13 am 
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You need to google the COWS worksheet. It will help to tell you what the state of your withdrawals are. It's not so much the amount of time you're in withdrawals, but how bad the withdrawals are. That's way more important.

It still sounds to me like you simply don't want to go on sub. You said something like "I don't want to put too much of that shit in my body". (Something like that.) People with your level of addiction do just fine on suboxone. It's for opiate addicts - not just the "bad" addicts.

If you think you can taper down on the Norcos, then give it a try. One of the reasons sub works so well is because people ARE ABLE to taper down on it, something that little to no opiate addicts can do with their drug of choice.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:35 am 
Hey hows it going? Sorry im just chiming in on this but i've been a bit confused. You say you've been taking 15 for months now and weened down to 5? Then you said something to the effect, should you take 4mg's over the 5 norco? I may be 100% confused so forgive me if i am but, you know you cant take any other opiate when you take suboxone. Even if you weened down from 15 to 5 and feel withdrawals simply due to a smaller amount than usual. You have to be completely stopped on the Norco. Then wait for withdrawal. Like i say, i could completely be misunderstanding what your saying so if you could clarify any of this, that might help. Thanks!! Goodluck with everything!! ~PEACE~


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:45 am 
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Thank you Hat for posting about the COWS worksheet, I was starting to get myself lost in the tall grass there for a minute trying to help this guy.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Hello guys thank you for your responses. I will google cow and see whats up here. The problem is that im trying to wait the appropriate amount of time before i take my first sub. I have weened myself just out of pure frustration of not wanting to take pills anymore and the fact that the day before yesterday i had waited prob 17hrs with no withdraw so didnt end up taking my first sub so i put it off till today. At noon it will be 15hrs since my last norcos. So im gonna try this again. Thank you too lifesaver i appreciate the input.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:38 pm 
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I'm glad you decided to google the COWS (clinical opiate withdrawal sheet) before taking your first sub, that makes me feel a lot better. It will certainly help you in deciding when to take the sub.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Thanx for looking out. Im ok. I took a quarter about 30 mins ago. It was funny i woke up and said to myself 'not again" Not only was i not withdrawing but i actually felt good. I starting thinking all the weening i did might have helped and i was gonna have an easy road. Nope! Bout half hour later i felt like shit i was like "hell yah this is great i feel like shit"


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