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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:15 pm 
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CRazy the way these things work. I took 2mgs at first and waited a couple hrs. I still felt crapy i dont know why. I def felt better than i did but "normal" i def wasnt either. Im confused i was down to about 6 norc a day (but only for the last 2 days) which isnt very much. Considering the sub is so potent i thought for sure 2mgs would be fine. Is this due to the fact that im just newly introducing it to my body? In any case, i broke off another small piece which was probably about a mg and that did the trick. I feel much better. Can anyone tell me though how long this will last? I usually start binge eating norcs at night. Just the routine. I wonder if im gonna feel like i need to do that tonight. As of now i do not.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:26 pm 
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It's hard to say. For most people new to sub, they start with a dose above the ceiling (about 4 mg). The idea of that is to get the opiate receptors saturated, which will totally address the w/d as well as the cravings. At amounts below the ceiling, sub acts more like a full agonist. Your receptors won't be fully saturated, so you'll almost have this up and down effect.

I think the best advice I can give you is to listen to your body. When you feel the cravings or withdrawals start to come back, go ahead and take another small amount. Maybe another 1-2 mg. Since you want to stay down so low, you won't necessarily have the benefit of the 37 hour half-life. It'll be difficult to say whether you'll feel like most people do. I hope this makes sense. Keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:27 pm 
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auto333,

You said "hell yeah I feel like shit", I couldn't help but laugh. I totally understand where you're coming from though.

Sounds like you've got 3mg of sub in you and several hours have passed so I'm going to say your OK.

As far as binge eating norcs at night, I think??? you have enough sub in you that it will not allow any of the norc onto your mu receptors, aka, you shouldn't feel shit from them, but I certainly would not binge eat norcs tonight.

Sub has a very long half life by the way, over 24 hours.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Your exactly right hatmaker. I am having this up and down effect. Its weird. But isnt the idea to take as much sub equivalent to what other opiate you were using? If you think about it i took 6 norcs yest and the day before. In any case 3mgs made it ok im just anticipating how long it will last. Maybe im wrong but if i can gut it out below the ceiling maybe itll be better for me in the near future. Next 2 to 3 days? Does that make any sense? Also Romeo, i was just so excited to feel like shit thats all. Ive been waiting for 3 days to start recovery and something seemed in the way every time i would try to take the step. No withdraws, ThanksGiving. Its been on my mind for 72 hrs and just eating away at me so i woke up and 30mins later started feeling it so i got excited. But i will not eat any Norc tonight. I know itll be a waste. You said it has a very long half life. Does that mean i will feel the same as i do now as i will tonight and into tomm morning, and then start feeling like crap again so ill know its time to take more? Or will i feel a gradual decrease? Thank you both for once again for your help. Means so much.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:00 pm 
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I don't think it's really a matter of sub being equal to the opiate dose that we were taking. The idea is to saturate the receptors so that cravings and withdrawals are FULLY addressed. That said, you're not doing this for maintenance. You want to use this to get off the norcos only, right? Then you can't expect it to work as it's "meant to" or as it does for the rest of us. Like I said, I also don't believe you'll get the long half life. There's no way of saying with that low dose how long it will last in your system. It should easily be more than a few or even several hours though.

I know this is confusing. It took me a long time to understand the ceiling effect myself. Try to just listen to your body. Pick a dose to take once a day that seems to last the longest, maybe 2-3 mg, get yourself stable on that and then start your taper down. That's what you want to use it for, right? (If I'm not mistaken.)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:24 pm 
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Yah i want to use the sub to get off the norco. But are you saying this dose wont last long because it is my initial dose? I took 3mgs total today. Seems like enough. Ive read stories of people starting on 4mgs thats not too much more. And people taking 2mgs as well which is lower than what i took. Are these people not getting the full affect?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:30 am 
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Yah you were kind of right. I didnt feel bad but i felt like i was starting to. Like headaches coming and going and some rush of anxiety. Couple other minor things. So i took another mg. Totaling 4 for the day. Hopefully tomm will be better and i wont have to take as much im kind of bumbed that i did but i didnt want to chance it and wake up in the middle of the night ready to loose it because i was withdrawing. Only thing is that its hard to tell because the sub is covering up the withdraw but if im remembering correctly, i havent even really begun. Night 2 and 3 were always the worst for me. What else is very strange about this stuff is that it makes you feel so weird overall. Just like a shadow of yourself. Kind of like on auto pilot. Ill feel like im getting sick and then all the sudden ill be like nope im not im fine. Its very deceiving trying to figure out how you feel. If your ok or not when you actually are. Obviously because your not shaking and sweating even with 5 tshirts, 5 pairs of pants and 7 pairs of socks on.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:44 am 
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I'm not quite understanding. Suboxone doesn't change how people feel. Just keep in mind that you haven't stabilized yet. You will though, give it some time. Allow yourself to stabilize before you start trying to taper down.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Hey Hat, I kind of get what auto333 is saying with feeling weird overall, esp if you just start the subs or like me and not taking enough because it's giving you that agonist opiate effect instead of the antagonist effect (affect, not sure which word to use there), you kind of feel high but not quite, kinda hyper and queasy stomach feeling and your hearing is intensified. For me, subs killed my appetite when I first got started on it and were doing the same while my dose was too low. i didn't put it together until I got the advice from you guys that was whats going on.

Auto333, don't stress about taking subs. Their going to help you and you will feel normal soon. You won't have cravings if your on the right dose and if you took the norcos with subs in your system they won't do a thing to you.

May I ask? I've heard of norcos but are they the same as oxycodone or percosets?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:39 pm 
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in response to the norcos------when i ithink norco i think blue tab 10 (loritab) - its just a bnand name for hydrocodone,


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Hey Auto, you won't get the 37 hour half life benefit till you build up some suboxone in your system. Some people feel better taking it twice a day compared to just once, esp in the beginning. I know when I was at a higher dose I could go over 24 hours like Hat said, "Some people dose every other day" but now being on a lower dose, I need it more than once a day, unfortunately I'm only RX'd 2mgs once a day right now, I do have extras saved up from a long time ago however. Which is what is getting me by now. Anyhow that is my experience.......totally agree with Hatmaker. You'll get used to the way your feeling and everything will level out and you're going to feel normal.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:21 am 
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Hey everyone thank you for all your help. Yah im ok now ahahha. Yesterday i felt like some shot me in the ass with a tranquilizer gun. I was thinking man if this the way im going to feel the whole time i think i might have a problem w/it. I was real lethargic and drowsy. Also not feeling to good even after all day but this morning i woke up i couldnt believe it. I was completely normal. I went to work and had a great day it threw me off i didnt expect that. I went all day without taking any until about 11 this evening.I ate 2 mgs that all. Weird thing is that i didnt even think i needed it i was still totally fine when i took it. But i figured i didnt want end up not feeling good in the morning. But hatmaker let me ask you. I totally feel that the medication is changing the way i feel. Isnt that why we took drugs to begin with? Just so i understand what you mean. Downing2b youve never seen the norcs? Little yellow guys. The blue guys are the lorcets but they have more aspirin in them thats why their bigger. The Bigger the pill the more aspirin. Im sure you've seen the size of a vicodin es or hp? Those guys are huge. Alot of aspirin. Their all in the same family of pills that only contain hydrocodone just different amounts of narcotic and aspirin in each. But the percocets are oxycodone. Thats the narcotic in it. Mixture of oxy and hydrocodone so their stronger than the hydrocodone pill family. But thank you too so much for laying it down for me too i appreciate it. Thing is, i didnt need to take it all day today until 11 tonight . And then again i didnt even need it really i felt the same as i did all day. Any reason for that do you know?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:36 am 
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Auto, I'm so, so glad you're finally feeling better. Yay you! My opinion on why you are feeling... "different" is because you've been taking narcotics for a long time. Many of us took drugs in the first place to self-medicate or quite simply to numb feelings we would rather not have or feel. Now that the fog is clearing, you will probably begin to feel a lot of different emotions that you may not have felt in a really long time. And you may or may not like it at first. It's a HUGE adjustment. Give yourself time to get to know yourself and your feelings again. I know for me, after about 3 years of addiction, I was still getting used to my emotions at least a couple of months after I started suboxone. But then, I am one of those people who intentionally took drugs to avoid my feelings. Not everyone is like that.

So even though you (finally) feel better PHYSICALLY, allow your mind and emotions time to adjust to living without being under a blanket of fog. Let us and this forum be part of your healing process. Feel free to post about how you're feeling and what you're going through as you learn to live with yourself & your feelings once again. Good luck and definitely keep us posted on how you're doing. :D

(Oh, and keep in mind this is only my opinion on the subject.)

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 Post subject: starting induction
PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:58 am 
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First, I want to say to Auto...great you are feeling better. I agree with hat, that you probably aren't used to feeling as much? Maybe. But also I have heard that people feel kinda high when first getting on it but that goes away and things normalize out. Hope you continue to stay on it. Also, for whoever asked the norco question-norco is hydrocodone 10mg and usually has 325mg of tylenol. They are easier to take because they are so small. I used to gag down vic ES...ugh, they still make me sick.

Today is Sunday day 6 off of 75mg methadone (from a methadone clinic...i'd been there for almost 3 years). I am switching because of a custody issue and the judge saying I am a junkie on methadone. WHATEVER dumbass. LOL

My symptoms of w/d have been mild. I really am not over a 12 on COWS but 6 days should be enough to get the methadone out I hope, altho I know I'm jumping from a fairly moderate dose.
I took sleeping pill last night at went to bed at 830 because I was sick of feeling weird. I woke up at 4 and couldn't sleep and was nauseated, chills/hot flashes, anorexia, restless, HR up, but that is it really. I'm just sick of waiting and I am due to return to methadone clinic tomorrow and I do NOT want to go back on methadone. I was getting to the point that I thought screw this, methadone worked for me just fine. So I forced myself to induct today. I am sick of feeling off and a bit sick and I have so much to do.

I dosed at 6:00a with 2mg. held it under tongue for 20min and spit it out. didn't eat for half hour but all I can eat anyway is a popsicle. I'm going to dose again in another hour, making it 2 hours between doses.

So far so good. Not pwd thankfully. Later, china


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:09 am 
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Chinagirl,

It sounds like you did not induce too early. I think if you were going to have P/W that it would've hit you by now. I have a question - when you said you held it under your tongue for 20 minutes then spit it out, did you let it dissolve completely? I just wanted to bring it up, just in case. I hope you continue to feel better. Let us know how it's going.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:32 pm 
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auto333,

I'm so glad to hear you're feeling better. For some of us it takes a minute to get stabilized on the sub and it sounds like you are headed there.

Just a note about being on sub, just because you're on sub now doesn't mean all of your life issues are going to magically disappear, you will, however be able to deal with them now having a clear head which is bound to improve your chances of dealing with them successfully instead of retreating into drug use.

Be patient and give it time to work...I took me a good while with it before I finally got my head screwed on straight and knew I was to a place where I thought I was good to take my next step.

Again, very happy to hear you are doing better.

Chinagirl,

PLEASE keep us updated on your induction. I am particularly interested in how it goes because I have not as yet witnessed someone going from methadone to sub and I would love to hear how it treats you.

Good Luck to you both.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:27 am 
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Hey guys its been about 7 or 8 days since i posted. I wanted to start my journey and see where it took me. Well, i have def hit a wall. Today is 9 days since my last norco. As in our previous conversations if you remember i was taking 10-15 norcos a day however had weened myself down to 6 for the last couple days before i subed. The first day i started w/ 4mg and then 2mgs for the next 2 days. After that i dropped it to a mg which at that point started feeling all the reality coming through. It was making feel ok for part of the day and then crap at night. Which i thought i would just deal with (and have been) in order to get off the sub as quick as possible. Where im at now and have been for the last few days is just unmanageable anxiety and panic. Its def overwhelming and pretty much the only reason im still dosing myself. To get some sort of relief from it. If it wasnt for that i would be good to go. Im not withdrawing physically anymore and i feel fine except for the anxiety. Its debilitating at times so im wondering, am i still withdrawing from the norco or is it just still too early and im going through the PAWS right now?


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