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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Hi,
I have been reading a lot of the forum and appreciate the great support here.
I posted my story under methadone maintenance if anyone wants to read it (title. new and 3 days going on sub from methadone).
I am day 5 off methadone, taking a couple of 5mg vic to help ease w/d (dr. ok'd). I had been on MMT at a clinic for almost 3 years. I was on 75mg for about a year and did well. I have been compliant, clean ua's, doing meetings, counseling. I am now wanting to switch to bupe because the judge from our divorce has now taken away my already too little time with my daughter (very vindictive physician ex husband) and says I have to have supervised visits with her, one hour one day a month (actually the ex wouldn't let me see her more than one day a month...he has no desire to build my relationship wtih my daughter...the details are in story). I brought to the judge a letter from my dr, my counselor, my 3 years of clean uas and she said she didn't care what evidence I had I was addicted to methadone and it was no different. WHAT? So, here I go onto bupe. I hope.
I don't have enough withdrawals yet to start the subutex. Anyone else jump at 75 or moderately high doses of methadone and start sub? Worried that I can't take it yet but I just don't think I feel badly enough to start it. and yet as most of us are, I am terrified of w/d. My first visit with daughter is tomorrow! Don't want to be sick and don't want to start sub not knowing how I will do on it when seeing her. No doubt I'll wait until late sat or sun to start it.
Thanks for any help. I read the post about the couple who were completely screwed over by the hospital and were threatened to lose their baby....what a complete nightmare and the ignorance in the medical and judicial world is appalling. We need to change this. I am seriously considering a formal complaint against the judge...if I can do that....who knows but she was way out of line. I had been seeing my daughter every other weekend (I lost custody during divorce 6 years ago even though I had been clean and sober at that time for 5 years! This judge is a nightmare and she is a woman. Go figure)
anyway, I had been on methadone for 2 .5 years and seeing my daughter every other weekend and obviously nothing happened to make anyone suspect I was on methadone. My life was stable, I was working. then my ex found out about my methadone, long story, and he called my work, I got ua's and fired (I now an a counseling psychologist treating addiction! and THEY fired me for methadone yet the year I worked there they loved me, my clients loved me...) and my ex immediately went to court to say I was putting my daughter in danger.

Anyone with any advice, thoughts, anything would really be appreciated. THANKS!! Happy Holidays...are people really shopping today? LOL. You couldn't pay me to go out there today. ! well, maybe you could...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:34 pm 
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i dont know much about child custody or divorces, i do hope that everything works out. its crappy that you got an asshole judge and it also seems like your ex is very vindictive. Do you think getting on subs will change their views at all? i suppose sub has less of an abusive quality although it is still physically additive. I know that you have to stay sober, and at this time it seems like part of staying sober depends on methadone or subs at this point in your sobriety. To me it seems like it would be a possibly good idea to try the subs, the only thing i worry about is that the judge will still look at subs as addictive and will still judge you based on that. I guess i need to know a little more background about why you chose subs?? anyways, i think the switch would be fine, as long as you have enough time in between, which it sounds like you do. everyone i have known personally that has bene on subs has felt "normal" which is a great feeling. it depends on your dr what kind of dose they start you on. people have said that if there dose is to high they feel sleepy. you may want to look up the approx conversions for dones to subs to make sure your dr isnt dosing you to high.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:50 pm 
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Dr. started me on 4mg every 4 hours not to exceed 16mg in first 24 hours. I talked to him about starting at 2mg, however just to be safe. I don't know of any conversion so to speak.
I've been clean and sober before for 5 years and did it in a hospital detox, then attended outpt and completed, attended 12 step meetings for 4 years, the first 3 years I went 5/week. Had a sponsor, worked steps. I believe in 12 steps as I made a lot of needed changes in my thinking with it.
I have had too many opiate relapses. 3 for me is just too much. I choose methadone because I couldn't afford sub when I first started 3 years ago. It worked for me but with the judge's decision and my blunted emotions I wanted to try sub. I read and researched, talked to people, have clients on sub, read this forum, etc, watched dr j's videos and made a decision. My dr is fully on board with the switch. My methadone clinic will find out Monday that I have done this as i don't go in except twice a month.
my ex appeared to think bupe was a good idea several years ago so I am thinking he will be ok with it and hence so will the judge I think. I don't know tho.
Going off everything right now is not the right decision for me, altho I know I've done it before, I had cravings all the time.
I don't know if I will be on them for long or short term yet. I will wait and see. I can't make that decision yet. I don't have enough information. My dr does say that 4 months on sub is needed to stabilize the brain and rewire some of it (NIDA says 90 days to rewire but that is not necessarily on sub) and he likes pts to try to get off of it but also is open to long term use.
I'll let you know!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:01 am 
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Hello and welcome Chinagirl,

Wow you have gone through an awful lot and I definitly think subs are going to change your life for the better. As far as the switch from meth to subs I really don't have much personal advice to offer, but I will tell you many have succesfully done it and been very pleased with the results.

As far as your husband and the judge that crazy. I believe that on a urine test sub is in its own catagory than opiates and metadone and I'm not sure everyone tests for it? What I would do is print out as much info you can find about subs and the positive aspects of it and be prepared in the case the a-hole judge has a problem with it.

I have a few questions about your switch so I can try to answer a few of your questions better. Did you stop your methadone at 75mgs and go right to vics? Are you planing to take the subs after a few days on the vics?

I ask because I'm not sure the vics are going to be enough to starve off methadone w/ds. How are you feeling at day 5? Do you know that you can't take the sub for about 18-24 hours without either vics or metadone or untill you score a high enough score on the COWS scale?

I hope you have a great visit with your kid tomarrow! You are giving her the best gift of all by making this choice. If you ever want to talk pm me and we can meet in chat, a few of us meet every monday at 9pm if your interested? Stick around you will find this forum to be the best!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:19 am 
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Hi Hancal,

Thanks so much for writing.

So, here is the deal. jumped from 75mg methadone maintenance (been at 75 mg a year and about 50mg before that) and took 2-4 vic/day for 2 days and today only took 2 this am (2-5mg). They have eased things a bit I think, but not sure. I do know that I need to be off vic for about 24 h and the methadone has been 4 days so far. I didn't mean to write 5 days, sorry. I feel ok actually. Some sneezing, watery eyes, can't sleep, a bit restless but really only a 7 on COWS. I know I need to be in mod. w/d before starting sub.
I called my dr today and asked for clonodine but he hasn't called back unless he called it in at my pharm, Ihaven't checked that yet.

I'm grateful for any advice on how to induct since I am doing it at home which is my preference actually. If I had to wait until Monday for my initial appt and had not had a rx of subutex my w/d would have been worse I am sure! It is amazing how we can think ourselves into w/d. Well, I know I can anyway. Crazy. I am nervous about the w/d from methadone esp. since tomorrow is the day I see my daughter. I have to drive 6 hours round trip but I am bringing a friend to drive me just in case and will bring subutex to start after my visit if needed.

I wonder if it is just better all the way around to be off methadone as long as possible before inducting but I really hope I can induct on sunday because I follow up Monday and then I move a few hours away. I will continue to have my practice in the city I am in now and return every 2 weeks to see clients and then my new dr as well. The timing of my starting this isn't great but it just worked out somehow. I hadn't been planning on making the switch quite yet and am so glad I am now.

I'd love to join the chat on Monday. is it 9 est? I am in NW so it'll be 6 my time. I see the doc that day and I should be started on sub so I'll have more to report then.
Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:27 am 
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Didnt you have an attorney for these hearings ?? I'm just asking because I'm sure everyone would like to know ???? Welcome, Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:23 am 
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Not for that last one. My mom had just died, my dad is sick and I was scrambling around plus I got fired after my ex called my work and they ua'd me and found the methadone (despite being at a legit clinic for 3 years and being in a good recovery). I couldn't afford an attorney and it was a mess. I wouldn't ever recommend it to anyone.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:58 am 
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chinagirl,

I was just outside having a smoke and it dawned on me as to why I have such a difficult time talking about relationships with others...at least I think this is why.

After all the crap my wife went through with me(and she never...ever complained??? Oh I knew she was disappointed in me though, but she never nagged), I can't understand why she didn't leave me a thousand times and take my daughter with her. So, when I talk to others about their relationships it inevitably brings me back in my mind as to why my wife didn't leave and the guilt of my previous actions sets in and the absolute horror of the thought of them not being in my life surfaces and I just can't go there...yet. Now that I understand this I have some work to do in this area. I have apologized a million times to them both and I know I am forgiven by them, I have to forgive myself now. This woman blows me away, it's like she knew all along that this horrible addiction was something I had to go through and I knew whatever happened that she would be there for me on the other side. We both have an unwavering belief in God and I'm sure He helped us both tremendously too!

Thanks for helping me make that breakthrough. As I'm sure you're aware, that buried guilt is like a ticking time bomb for an addict and I'm sure glad I now have a chance to diffuse it properly before it went BOOM and I ended up using again.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Hey Chinagirl,

It sounds like you have a pretty good plan for your induction. I think you will be in good shape to take it after your visit with your daughter on sunday. If your really feeling crappy before the visit and haven't taken any vics for about 18 hours I think you will be just fine. I believe the norm for metadone is about 3 days and because your coming off a pretty high dose I think your smart to wait the 5 days. Go with your body you will know when your ready!

Start of slow I made the mistake of starting subs at 24mgs and I really think I would have been fine at 8mgs. It took me awhile to realize I just couldn't get high off this stuff and was convinced that by taking more I was going to feel better, but soon realized all it did was make me sleepy.

I think your going to do great you seem to really serious about your recovery and your daughter and I believe this is going to be the turn around for both.

As far as chat on Monday its at 9pm for me and I'm in Massachuttes so I am not sure what time that will be for you I am sure someone else will read and give you the correct time. I am not good at shit like that :lol:

Good luck tomarro, drive safe, have fun and enjoy your time with your daughter!!!!!!!! I look forward to hearing about how you make out :D


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:01 pm 
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I hope I'm doing this right, as it's my first reply. What's throwing me off is the reply page is asking for a subject (title of my reply).

The more experienced forum users here have given great advice. I just wanted to tell you that you're doing a great thing for your daughter, not to mention for yourself. Stay strong and I hope you had a great visit! I wish you and your daughter the best of luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:05 pm 
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MidwesternManOkay - welcome. As I'm sure you figured out, when you reply to a post you don't have to fill in the subject line. You only have to do that when you start a new topic/thread. Nice to have you with us.

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