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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:55 am 
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i see many topics about this, but honestly my anxiety is far far too high for me to weed through all of this and find the answer.

so if someone could point me to the right thread that could handle my problem please tell me.

here is my situation. i was put on suboxone 4 years ago. i was addicted to tramadol and i went to an addiction clinic locally and they put me on this. i regret that trip greatly. i would have been far better off just suffering for a couple weeks. but hindisight is 20/20

I don't ahve cravings at all for tramadol, but about 2 years ago i switched from suboxone strips to subutex pills. I have no concern for falling off the wagon and the transition caused me no problem.

But first off i think i'm on way too high a dose. i'm prescribed 4 8mg tablets per day. Frankly i can't afford the monthly visits and the price of medicine so i have to stop. Combined it's about $700 per month.

I decided to stop on my own. my doctor advised against it. but of course, if I get off, they don't get paid. So i'm doing it myself.

I've cut myself down 50% now after 1 week. so instead of taking 4 tablets per day i take 2.

I don't know how much time I should plan for this, but I want to cut another 50% this week. is that too fast?

I'm afraid of withdrawal. but i've also been depressed and very add. another doc put me on welbutrin and I don't know if those are bad together. she knows I'm taking buprenorphine but i don't think she cares at all about me. hard to explain, when i was talking to her, she wasn't listening, she was waiting for me to stop talking so she could start. I've been insales for 30 years I know quickly when someone isn't paying attention.

so what should I consider here? it's very hard to weed through all the threads to find the answer for my particular spot. so if someone knows of the right one please tell me. my add and anxiety make it very hard to research this


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:33 pm 
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Hey John , welcome....

Why did you go get on suboxone? Im just wondering why you didn't just suffer for a week or so of wd then you would have been free and clear of those Trams. I read this here every now again and sub seems to be the bad guy in stopping opiate addiction. All the while it is saving addicts from useing and living the useing life.

Im certain you have no cravings while on suboxone or subutex, they both have the same active ingredient : Buprenorphine. The Naloxone is only there to detail useing intravenously, theoretically. Subutex is cheaper so thats a plus. All the same wnen taken sublingualy.
I wouldn't worry to much about your dr missing your money, the waiting lists for a treatment is weeks loug and with the latest CDC numbers just out(120 addicts a day OD), im sure he will fill your spot so they can save there lives.

John the best thing you could do is start a louger slower taper After you get down into the lower doses. Your still taking 16mgs aday. Thats a larger type dose. You can get down to 8mgs without much trouble, evdn 4mgs but after that the work really begins. And below 2mgs some wd simptoms will come. How severe depends on the speed of the taper.

So..when you get to 4, slow way down. If craving begin think about staying on louger or join a 12 step group.

good luck and im sure others or another mod will be by to comment..


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:41 pm 
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I got on them because I didn't know better. i was on tramadol for 13 years. at one point i was taking 14 50mg at a time, 4 times per day my tolerance got so bad.

I got on them after a bad motorcycle accident. after healing i stopped and it cost me my job. i didn't know i was going through withdrawal. and it wasn't just any job. it cost me my career and $150,000 per year. it also ended up costing me my marriage. But it took losing most of that to understand it was withdrawal. i thought i was just having anxiety. i thought the withdrawals were gone in 3 days. not only that, i didn't think tramadol caused withdrawal.

i started taking them when my doctor assured me they were non-addictive. he wrote me a prescription for 200 with 5 refills.

But there came a time I said this is enough. i got that high (14 at a time) and worked my way down to 6. it was easy to get them because I lived 5 minutes from Tijuana and they're dirt cheap there anyway. this was before 9/11 so coming back across the border was nothing.

when i figured out i was in withdrawal i got back on them. it was so easy to get. then after 13 years i decided I had to get off. i had gotten down to about 25 per day. so i walked into a clinic and they told me suboxone was the right answer. i had NO idea they were opiates. had I known i would have never done it. but hindsight is 20/20. i wish i could sue the doctor for putting me on them. that was so wrong.

anyway. i'm at 16 now. half my prescription and you're saying that's a high dose? christ i should have been on less to start with.

ok. so how long should I project to get down to say 2 from 4? what I do is cut the pills in half and take half every 4 to 6 hours.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:19 pm 
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Well John 4 strips a day is a very high dose in my opinion. I started out on 16mg, which is what ur on now. The way I would do it if I were in ur position is go down to 12 mg when u feel stable on that, go down to 8. When u feel stable on 8 then go down to 6 then 4. After 4 get stable and go down a mg each time. I realize that's going to take a bit of time for u to do if u stabilize on each dose every time u drop but that's about the only way to do it without experiencing withdrawal. Others may have a better solution for u because I haven't ever done a major taper like that personally.

I understand how expensive being on that big of a dose would be. Most of the ppl on suboxone are addicts and sub does an extremely great job at keeping cravings away, and it blocks any other opiates effects which keep many ppl from relapse. I have zero negative things to say about it except for the cost, and I'm even willing to overlook that to keep from being bk in active addiction. I understand that u feel like u weren't really informed on suboxone but didn't u research anything about it? Ur Dr just said here ya go and u didn't ask any questions? Suboxone has saved many lives including mine, it's a blessing in my eyes.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:43 pm 
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So you want to sue your doctor for quite possibly saving your life? Really? You have too much anxiety to even search a forum, you were taking an off the charts high dose of tramadol, so much it's a wonder you didn't suffer seizures. You lost your job, lost your wife and I'm guessing lost much more. Your bup doctor is only using you for money and doesn't want you to stop bup. You're other doctor doesn't care about you either, doesn't listen and just put you on Wellbutrin. And this is just in the first two posts. What ownership do you have in all of this? Actually when you read that summary of what you yourself told us, what do you think of it? To me it seems like you have all the answers, others don't know squat and are only using you.

I'm sorry if that is over harsh but you are missing so much here I'm not sure where to start. I agree your dose is way too high and could be cut down. But you have anxiety for a reason. Separate from that I You also don't crave tramadol or other opiates for a reason - the bup is doing its job. If it would be so easy just to quit 25 tramadol a day, you and others would have.

I think the best thing you can do is start to look at what you did in all of this. It's not everyone else. You are part if it. Next I would continue reducing your dose. You should be able to get to 8 mg a day without any trouble. Actually 4 should be the target to consider over about three months Next I'd either start listening to your doctors and if you really don't trust them, find someone you do trust. You have to stop blaming everyone else and look at what your ownership in all of this is. You have a disease. That's not your fault. However what happens from here is up to you. It just generally a real bad idea for the patient to direct his own care. Your doctor told you it was not a good idea to stop bup and just from what you've told us, I tend to agree with your doctor. He is likely seeing things in you that you are not.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:48 pm 
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Hi Johnt, Welcome! I too was addicted to trams and agree with you about them. Doctors prescribe tramadol thinking it is not addictive! What a joke! At the height of my addiction, I was taking 40 or more 50 mg tabs per day. I am so happy to be off of that Rollercoaster ride! And, I spend less money on subs than I was on trams! Please, hang around and try to do some reading. You will find much help here!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:20 pm 
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Let me start by saying that your doctor should be put in jail for putting you on such a high dose!! The longer you stay on this junk the harder it will be to kick. I copied some information from one of my old posts below. For more details on tapering, Google the Thomas Recipe. Just avoid the part about the benzos, you don't want to go down that road I promise!!!! I hope it helps you a bit. If you need anything else please ask. We're all in this together!

(Edit by Amy: What James is saying is evidence of his opinion only. There is no scientific evidence to back up his claim that the longer you stay on, the harder to kick. In fact, many people who are on suboxone for several years notice that they feel finally ready to be off medication. We have a number of examples of this on our forum. We also have plenty of examples of people who feel that they will be lifers on this medication because they've come so close to dying without it. It is a very individual decision to be made with many factors to consider, like quality of life, the intensity or lack of side effects, cost, ability to prevent relapse while abstinent, etc.) James, you are welcome to share your experience, but when you start making statements that are not backed by scientific evidence, you will hear from us. It is irresponsible to make generalizations based only on your experience, even if 11 of your friends feel the same way.

Also, if you want to reply to people, don't just copy and paste the same info (especially as it is considered by our moderators to be misleading). This is an unapologetically pro-suboxone website. While we offer support to those who are stopping suboxone, we don't allow people to present unproven, anecdotal information as fact.


Old Post:
A little about my background. Used black tar IV H for a few years then suboxone for 12 years, along with every other drug under the sun. I'm currently on day 12 of no suboxone. Withdrawals suck of course, but I guess after going through benzo withdrawal in the past it makes suboxone withdrawal not so bad. It's not easy but anyone can do this if they really want it!!

Suboxone wasn't meant for lifetime use. Reckitt Benckiser makes billions of dollars a year from people like us. And the doctors are in their back pocket. It's f****** messed up!! It was meant for short term use (a year max) at low doses (4mg or less). Do yourself a favor and kick asap. This junk is just internally killing us. Quit before you suffer long term effects to your organs.

A few quick recommendations when you do:

1. Plan Plan Plan!!
2. Taper as low as possible. I made the mistake of jumping at 1mg. Lowest dose no less than 3 weeks.
3. Get time off work/school for at least 2 weeks if possible. I took 20 days off with weekends/holidays.
4. Get natural supplements!! I HIGHLY recommend Elimidrol. It's expensive but worth it. Get the day and night formula. Has just about everything you'll need in one supplement.
5. Have someone nearby for help and support. My fiancé pretty much saved my life. She's the reason I got on subs to begin with. She's been a godsent through this whole process.
6. Keep your eye on the prize! Being free and happier than ever!! Give yourself small milestones. Day 2, day 4, etc...
7. I can't stress this enough, exercise and upbeat music. Don't underestimate these!! I was able to start pushing exercise on day 7. I should have pushed sooner though.
8. Hot baths in Epsom salt are amazing when withdrawaling. Remember I said to plan? I put a smart tv in my bathroom for this reason. Netflix got me throug allot of my worst WDs.
9. Stay away from the negative posts lol. You'll freak yourself out reading WD horror stories. Reading success stories and good posts really helped me during the darkest times.

I can go on forever with recommendations. I've been preparing for this for a year now. Please don't hesitate if I can help or support in any way. If I can do this anyone can. I went from being a lost cause to having a pretty f****** awesome life. Kicking suboxone is my final monkey on my back.

Good luck everyone!!!

James


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