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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:03 pm 
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Hello All,

I have two questions.

But first, I shoudl probably provide a little background for perspective:

Beginning at age 18, I began to abuse opiates, and I went on to do so for forty years. At age 58, when the opiates no longer worked no matter how high the doasge, I was in serious trouble. I was put on Methadone, which I stayed with for two years. But God, how I despised that drug! When I needed to have a surgery, the doctor refused to perform that surgery unless I went off the Methadone. I did it. (The withdrawal from it is epic.) After the surgery I was put on Suboxone. My addiction doctors all said that because I'd been taking such massive amounts of opiates for forty years (plus the methoadone for two years) that I would never get off Suboxone. I would have to accept that I would be taking it for the rest of my life. (40 yrs. of opiates, 2 yrs. of methadone,. plus 5 yrs. of Suboxone. Doing the math tells you that I'm now 65.)

I was still in denial of my addiction when I started taking Suboxone at age 60. I started out my Suboxone experience at 56 mgs. per day. (I later learned that this high dosage was pointless). I accomplished the high dosage by doubling up clinics. But that didn't last long. Once I accepted my addiction and I admitted to the deception, I went with one clinic and immediately began reducing the dosage.

It's taken me four years of gradual (and painful) titration, but as of a few days ago I'm now down to 3 mgs per day. (Unfortunately, once I got down to the 8 mgs. level about a year ago, I began going into a pretty serious withdrawal every morning at about the same time. So, for about a year now, I've been going into withdrawal every single morning, like clockwork, at about 10am. I stay sick until mid-afternoon, after having taken my first dosage of 1.5 mgs at about noontime.)

So here's the first question: I've come down a total of 53 mgs. but it took four years of ongoing wretchedness, and I'm stil sick every day. Has anyone ever heard of person who had taken a lot of opiates for a lot of years (like 40) and who then took high doses of Suboxone for almost five years, getting off the Suboxone? Or getting past the constant withdrawals occuring even at a low dosage like 3 mgs.?

I cut my films in order to get the precise dosage of 1.5 mgs. twice a day. (BTW, I've found that taking it twice a day is a must. It's how I got down from the original high dosages. Now my body apparently wants it to stay this way. When I tried taking just one dosage per day, the withdrawal in the AM was markedly worse.)

Here's my second question: Can I pre-cut the Suboxone film and then allow it to sit in a prescription bottle for a few days to a week, until I use it? In other words; does the film lose any of its potency if it's sitting in the plastic bottle, and not in the sealed packet it comes in?

I appreciate your patience with all that. And I would appreciate any help anyone might have for me regarding the possibility of me ever getting off the Sub, as well as any knowledge of the film storage question.

Be well,

L


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Welcome to the forum. HOLY MOLLY! You were on some serious Subbys my friend. It will be interesting to see the response you get from our really great forum goers. I do not have any advise for you unfortunately, but I will congradulate you for tapering down so friggen low. 2 thumbs UP!! I feel for ya man. The WD really can be exhausting. You sound like you have been going thru it for a long time. One day you will feel good. I know it. Give this post some time and I believe you will get some great advise... Blessings.. Happy Holidays


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:48 pm 
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I don't think it will lose its potency, but having taken such a high dose at one point, and having been an addict at one point.. maybe its best you don't take your month's worth out of the individually wrapped packages.. at one point in time when you saw 7 unwrapped films at once.. you were eating all of them!!! save yourself the tedium and compulsiveness.. take your dose from a new package each day. 56 mg.. i always thought 32 was absurd. 2 docs.. some people would be thrilled to be able to afford one!!! until i found out recently my insurance covers it, i thought i was one of those people. at least you're off other stuff, suboxone makes your life much more manageable. just keep tapering down, there is going to be some discomfort. i dont know from first hand experience in either your nor my friends case.. but he has come down from 160mg of methadone to 30mg and says for the last 6 months he has felt in constant withdrawal, buprenorphine being a partial agonist opiate, unlike methadone being a full agonist opiate.. i think that you are in a better boat than him. i dont know what role 40 years! of use might play into it, but i still think it would be easier than methadone, and i hope youre aware, and are grateful it could be a lot worse, or worse yet, opiates could have killed you.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:52 pm 
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Also, why don't you take your first dose when you first wake up? Then take your second dose about 4 hours before bed time? The more active you are, the less you feel it.. (I don't mean this with any disrespect, but I don't know how active you are at your age) With the half life being over 24 hours, surely less than the time you sleep each night, you won't wake up sick, hopefully, and even if you do, take the dose immediately. That's what I do.. I just came off heroin a few weeks ago and in the beginning I was taking 2mg every 4 hours as the withdrawal progressed, now I take 4mg in the am and 4mg in the pm. I don't see why you would wait until noon if you're so sick???


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:28 am 
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I went from 140-160mg of methadone every day to 32mg of suboxone a day,,,, Now Im at 24, tho Ive been making 16mg work about 3 days a week.
ANYWAYS I see where your coming from,,,, tho my career was about 12 yrs total,,,definitely not 40!! I have ALWAYS taken a dose AS soon as I wake up,,,, about 7 am on my way to work in the morning, so I have the same question as the previous post, of why your not taking half your dose when you wake up??
You may find that would help,,,, but everyone's different. Ive been off methadone now about 7 months, and I still feel the W/D you are talking about,,, but it's not every day. The first 4 or 5 months, it was every day. I still will break out in a sweat, and my shirt collar gets soaked. its embarassing as hell. but everybody at my work is really supportive, they know my story. and they can tell when Im having a w/d "day". sometimes we wont even be doing anything hard.. (I work at a door and cabinet shop building countertops/cabinets/painting all day)
SOOOO I dont know If I helped at all
but congrats on your lifestyle change!!!!! Great job.
I think when air gets to the strips the lose SOME potency,,, just my opinion. and I agree with one of the previous posts about maybe not a good idea to have them "ready" we all have our moments of weakness......
just sayin'

agian CONGRATS man,,,, good job
and welcome,,,, your in the right place


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:47 am 
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Hi mysterywriter and welcome to the forum. You've come a long way, baby!

The question the others asked about dosing in the am when you first awaken is a good one. Why put yourself through suffering if you don't have to? Unless you're putting your dosing off later every day in an effort to spread your doses out to assist in your taper.

You didn't say how quickly or slowly you've been tapering, as in how long between dose drops, but from the sound of your w/d symptoms, it almost sounds like you tapered down too quickly. Ideally, you will listen to your body and wait to drop your next dose until you've fully adjusted to you last dosage drop.

If I were you I'd wait and stabilize where you are at now before dropping again. And if you're terribly uncomfortable and don't have a time limit to get off suboxone, then you could also up your dose just a tiny bit to get rid of some of your w/d. You could stay stable there for awhile and then try to make smaller dose drops in the future. The idea is to remove as little opiates from your brain at a time as possible. The slower you remove the opiates, the less acute and post-acute withdrawals you should have.

I hope this helps you. Again, welcome to the forum. You've done some excellent work. I hope you stick around the forum.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:41 am 
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WOW!!!! That story just shook me to the bone, man!! Intense to say the least and I truly applaud you for how far you've come. Ive been there with the methadone, I absolutely HATED going to get my meth in the AMs during the periods in time I was on it. Everyone in line would be talking about what drugs they had for sale, and who was doing who in the program etc etc etc. I felt like I was in the high school lunch line all over again. The one and only way I could come off meth was with heroin and its not a pretty site when you dont know what you are getting or how potent or unpotent it may be. Thank whatever higher power you are in touch with that you arent on that awful drug anymore.

As for your strips going bad out in the open, I dont think they will as Im doing the exact same thing at the moment and they've never let me down. I cut mine in to quarters and put the unused portions back in the plastic wrapper they come out of. Im really interested in hearing how you are doing, im in pretty much the same boat. Hope all is well!

Cheers
slim


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:43 pm 
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I was told by my Sub Dr. to take my full dose at 10am each day so that's what I've always done. The thought of taking it when first waking up doesn't sound very tasty. I want my coffee and a hot shower before I do anything.

And as far as cutting and storing it. I put a piece of film in an old prescription bottle and keep it in the medicine cabinet in the bathroom. They say you shouldn't do that because of the moisture but it has never affected mine. When I had my surgery and was off Sub for 3 weeks, I went back and took the 1mg piece I had stored there and it worked just fine.

We all have our ways of doing things or we are just following doctors orders.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:58 pm 
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MysteryWriterMan wrote:
Hello All,

I have two questions.

But first, I shoudl probably provide a little background for perspective:

Beginning at age 18, I began to abuse opiates, and I went on to do so for forty years. At age 58, when the opiates no longer worked no matter how high the doasge, I was in serious trouble. I was put on Methadone, which I stayed with for two years. But God, how I despised that drug! When I needed to have a surgery, the doctor refused to perform that surgery unless I went off the Methadone. I did it. (The withdrawal from it is epic.) After the surgery I was put on Suboxone. My addiction doctors all said that because I'd been taking such massive amounts of opiates for forty years (plus the methoadone for two years) that I would never get off Suboxone. I would have to accept that I would be taking it for the rest of my life. (40 yrs. of opiates, 2 yrs. of methadone,. plus 5 yrs. of Suboxone. Doing the math tells you that I'm now 65.)

I was still in denial of my addiction when I started taking Suboxone at age 60. I started out my Suboxone experience at 56 mgs. per day. (I later learned that this high dosage was pointless). I accomplished the high dosage by doubling up clinics. But that didn't last long. Once I accepted my addiction and I admitted to the deception, I went with one clinic and immediately began reducing the dosage.

It's taken me four years of gradual (and painful) titration, but as of a few days ago I'm now down to 3 mgs per day. (Unfortunately, once I got down to the 8 mgs. level about a year ago, I began going into a pretty serious withdrawal every morning at about the same time. So, for about a year now, I've been going into withdrawal every single morning, like clockwork, at about 10am. I stay sick until mid-afternoon, after having taken my first dosage of 1.5 mgs at about noontime.)

So here's the first question: I've come down a total of 53 mgs. but it took four years of ongoing wretchedness, and I'm stil sick every day. Has anyone ever heard of person who had taken a lot of opiates for a lot of years (like 40) and who then took high doses of Suboxone for almost five years, getting off the Suboxone? Or getting past the constant withdrawals occuring even at a low dosage like 3 mgs.?

I cut my films in order to get the precise dosage of 1.5 mgs. twice a day. (BTW, I've found that taking it twice a day is a must. It's how I got down from the original high dosages. Now my body apparently wants it to stay this way. When I tried taking just one dosage per day, the withdrawal in the AM was markedly worse.)

Here's my second question: Can I pre-cut the Suboxone film and then allow it to sit in a prescription bottle for a few days to a week, until I use it? In other words; does the film lose any of its potency if it's sitting in the plastic bottle, and not in the sealed packet it comes in?

I appreciate your patience with all that. And I would appreciate any help anyone might have for me regarding the possibility of me ever getting off the Sub, as well as any knowledge of the film storage question.

Be well,

L


Hi, and welcome to the forum. First off, I commend you on your diligence. Do you give yourself credit for the fact that you have not only gotten off opiates but also reduced your Suboxone dosage so significantly and carefully? You deserve a whole hell of a lot of credit and you should be proud of yourself for being able to do that!

I was on Sub for nearly 6 years. For a few of those years, my dose was around 32 mg, so pretty high. Obviously, you've taken a higher dose, but I still believe you can someday stop Suboxone if that is what you want. I also don't think you should have to be uncomfortable. You've been uncomfortable for so long! :( It took me a full year to taper off 8 mg and I actually believe I could have made it easier on myself by going slower. You hit plateaus that can be insanely frustrating. My experience told me that at those times, the best thing to do was to stop and wait. I hit a wall at 1 mg that was crazy. I thought I'd never stop feeling w/d every single day, and that was terrifying. The sneezing and leg aches and anxiety....OMG, I hated it and it just wouldn't let up. I can tell you, though, that you do adjust if you just wait it out. You have to know when you need a break. Just hang out where you are until you feel completely fine. Consider going back up just a tiny bit if it will make a difference. Try your best to not put a deadline on it. Let your body adjust and tell you when it is ready and you WILL be successful. You cannot stay in w/d forever. It's impossible. And you are doing a GREAT JOB ALREADY!!! Even if you are not off all the way, you are already successful. Does that make sense?

Best, best, best of luck! I'm proud of you for your progress in recovery.

Oh, and even though it took me a long time to do it, I did get off Sub after tapering to 1/16 mg and I feel very good. I stopped Sub over four months ago. In fact, my jump was a piece of cake. I'd already done the hard part and that is what you are getting through right now. You are doing the hard part. :D

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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