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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:50 am 
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I was on Suboxone for 2 years. I was addicted to painkillers smoking about 10-20 30s a day for a year and switched to herion doing a gram a day for a year. I got Year and half completely off opiates. Then dabbled in 30mg Percocet here and there for 6 month while and also taking my Suboxin. After 6 months and not taking subs as I should have I relapsed completely and started doing herion again for about 4 months now. I called my suboxone doctor and told him, I'm seeking for help to get completely clean ( god I miss it so much ). And he kicked me out.
My question
Over the course of three weeks I've been using and then waiting all day to get sick. Use a gram of herion go to bed around midnight. And sit all day not be to sick till 4 p.m and between 7-11 p.m I take my Suboxin but it makes things worse. So I use. I've repeated this so much pretty much bed ridden for 3 weeks just withdrawing and going to get better with herion that my body is weaker and withdrawls seem to have gotten worse. I'm always scared to take my Suboxin knowing it won't work.
I want to start today by tapering down off the drug and doing less and getting my digestive system back on track and eating and hydrating and more exercise for the next three days before I try to withdrawl again. Does anyone have a system they can introduce to me that makes it easiest to get back on my Suboxin from herion the fastest way. When I got on Suboxin the first time I was sick for a week couldn't get out of bed unless it was to take a bath when induced. Think the doctor induced my body to early. I don't want that to happen again. When I did percs 30s (smoking 300 mg a day) I could take a sub 15 hours later and go on with my day. Now on this I'm dying I don't want to leave the house or see anyone I have no motivation at all On or off the drug and the Suboxin arnt working after 24 hours. I feel like it's because herion has turned me into a closet addict. Be home doing drugs and going to get them. All I do.

Maybe taper off the herion and get my body and self doing something all day and eating right will help my body accept the Suboxin better.?? Any thoughts or help would be great I'm tired of going in circles with being dope sick and getting better everyday.
Thanks Shane.


Last edited by Shane771 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:04 am 
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Hi Shane. I really don't have any advice-others will be along to help. It kinda sounds like the Suboxone isn't working because now you aren't waiting long enough or you aren't sick enough and it keeps throwing you in PW. Maybe it didn't do that when you took the percs, but it sure sounds like that is the case now. I'm sorry that your doctor dropped you when you were honest and trying to seek help from them. Can you find another doctor?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:14 am 
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My doctor he said when I got clean again he would prob accept me. We always had a good relationship due to my honesty. I always asked him to taper me down and so on. I have a lot of subs due to not useing them for 3 months. I also have a few subutex (ppl say it won't put in pw but it has for me on the 24 hr mark).

Also I was thinking a lot of the herion in my town is cut with fetynal. Now would that be the case of it. Pills are pharmaceutical made it's clean you know what's in it. Herion is dirty and mixed with all kinds of things and fetynal is huge in this area for the cut.
Thanks for the help. I really want to have a weekend at home and be back at work on my subs by a Tuesday. But it seems impossible with the rotation I'm in.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:52 am 
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Don't be discouraged-people will be along(ones that know what they are talking about). Yeah, I've read a lot on this forum about the heroin being cut with fentanyl. I'm glad you have some saved up. I understand what your doctor is saying but you were being honest and asking for help. If he made every patient that he sees be clean before he helped, I don't imagine he would have very many. And you can absolutely get PW from Subutex!! Someone on here explained to me how it works-Jonathanm. This is how he explained it to me-just substitute the words opana with heroin and Zubslov with Suboxone/Subutex --so the presence or lack of Naloxone makes no difference


You need to understand the PW and the "fight" that's going on between full agonists and partial agonists to cause those PWs to happen.

To have PW, it means that you have a partial opiate agonist pushing the full opiate agonist - opana - off of your pain receptors. To have that battle ongoing is the PW part of it. Once the partial opiate agonist (Zubsolv) wins, the PW ends.

So, you want to wait as long as you possibly can for the opana to be as minimal as possible in your system...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Hey Shane, welcome to the forum!

I think ur probably right, ur H was probably cut with fentanyl. Fentanyl and Methadone is two of the longest acting opiates and because of that, ppl have to wait a bit longer before they induct on buprenorphine so it gets out of their system and won't experience precipitated withdrawal.

Now I'm absolutely not a doctor, this is just my take on ur situation and I'll feel better when another moderator or one of the doctors comment too. But for my opinion, ur gonna have to stop H long enough to be in full withdrawal especially if ur H has fentanyl in it, because that means u are gonna have to wait longer. Or....if ur already dosing ur buprenorphine, ur gonna have to just keep taking it at ur normal dose without taking anything else in between, even if u feel bad and are in precipitated withdrawal, if u keep dosing suboxone, ur pw's will finally go away. How long that'll take, not really sure, but suboxone will finally take over. It may be a bit tough but u can do it.

Ppl on methadone are usually told to taper down to around 30mg or so and wait around 4 days (could be shorter, I'm just using this as an example) before taking their first dose of suboxone. I'm not sure about fentanyl, but I know it likes to hang around longer too. Oxycodone, hydrocodone....these are shorter acting opiates and the induction to suboxone coming off those are much easier. I was on oxycodone 30s when I started suboxone treatment and I waited 32 hours before my induction (some don't wait that long) and I had no issues. If ur familiar with the COWS scale, that's something most doctors use or tell u to use so you'll know when ur ready to take ur first dose of suboxone.

So basically, if u have a tolerance to fentanyl, ur experiencing pw because ur not waiting long enough between ur last dose of that to ur first dose of buprenorphine. But if u do continue dosing ur buprenorphine without anything else, u will eventually feel better.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Hello Shane.
Welcome to our great forum. You ve have been given some really good information here already.
Jenn and Htown are correct.
The thingviis s Shane your going to have to wait And be sick one way or the other . The fight is over tolerance as HTOWN has said.
If you does to soon then PW s can come on. If you wait 30 hours orcmore then WD will come in a moderate to severe.
Either way you should keep taking the suboxone once you begin. In time you ll come out the otherside.
Im sorry, there is no easier way in this case imo. And no, im not a dr either..


Razor


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Im so happy u posted Razor, and HTown too.

I hope ur still trying to pull through to the other side Shane. It'll be so worth it. Please keep us updated. I know u probably feel like ur just trapped in a circle of being sick then trying to take something to feel better, but like Razor said, you'll have to go through it. There's ppl that's had to go days in order to induct but they made it and are living a 100% better life today and will tell u it's so worth it. I know u said u were on suboxone before, so u probably already know that.

Hope things are going ok for u today :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:53 pm 
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maybe is the naloxen making you sick? well maybe not since you tried the subutex too?

i was never told to taper off anything and neither was the girl who went before me at the clinic.

i had used that morning. they didn't ask me when i had used last, but my pee indicated i was on something.

they gave me the script and i filled i that afternoon...after trying 3 different pharmacies!

i instantly had no cravings and i never had any withdrawals.

who knows what's in your heroin! i got carpet cleaner and beef boullion once!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:07 pm 
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What if someone were to go from H, and then to an opoid like Oxy or Hydrocodone for a few days, then go from that to Sub?

Though the last time I went from H straight to sub. It sucked. But not nearly as bad as kicking cold turkey, and it was so worth going through the ordeal. Being on Sub is a million times safer, and frees up your life. I hated how doing H was a damn full time job. So not worth it.


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