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 Post subject: New member, recent slip
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:23 am 
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Hi Everyone, thought I'd stop by here and introduce myself as briefly as possible.

Long-term opioid user, drug of choice was originally Oxycontin (so you know that's a long time ago), then heroin. Got sober with Suboxone maintenance then completely came off and stayed sober for years. Had some cravings at times, but also had a lot of life on life's terms stuff going on, and struggle with PTSD and depression. Was (still am) prescribed benzodiazepines and even took them less than as prescribed for about a year (up to 2mg/day, broken up into small doses), and successfully tapered myself off of them when I felt I no longer needed them on a daily. Occasionally still take .5mg - 1mg Klonopin (maybe 1x/week) to deal with acute anxiety. So I say that to say that my addictive behavior-typed tendencies were extremely under control.

This past summer, I got major dental work done and got a prescription for extra strength Vicodin, completely out of necessity. I was in acute dental pain and, recovery or not, needed them at the time. Problem is that after like four days on them, I started feeling crappy without them, and ended up taking them all over a few weeks, abusing them, nodding out on the couch from them, all of that. Again, only a few weeks but this scared the crap out of me and I was having cravings all the time so I decided to go back on super low-dose Suboxone, taking about 1/2mg/day. I know that seems like it wouldn't even do anything, but I never had a high tolerance for long-acting opioids.

I ended up being on between 1/2mg - 1mg of Suboxone until about two weeks ago, when I decided to stop. I didn't do any tapering, I just stopped. And some people would say, oh, that's nothing, you shouldn't have been sick, or, that's such a tiny dose that no tapering was necessary, but everyone's bodies are different, so when I tell you that I went through some pretty bad discomfort, I mean it. My body is very sensitive to any substance I put in it. So I always get all the side effects of medications, I only ever needed a tiny dose of Suboxone, miniscule amounts of Klonopin work for me, and so on. But anyway, so I used my Klonopin to get through some of the sleep difficulties/anxiety/etc, taking up to 2mg/day in split doses.

After a few days, I started having increasingly awful cravings, sweaty palms, blood running cold, that kinda thing. I told my two support people, and the consensus was that I should just keep on my big girl panties and deal with it. Well, on Wednesday I did something I hadn't done in YEARS, and bought drugs off the street - oxycodone pills. Well these aren't the Oxycontin that I was used to (yeah, we're talking like over a decade ago since I've been through this crap) and I was shocked to see that after a few hours, I was feeling sick, running to the bathroom with diarrhea, and etc. So I spent like $200 on these BS pills over a four day period (Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday). Chasing around the only person I know who I would even contact to get drugs (keeping in mind that no one knows about this relapse/slip), while ready to crap my pants, literally. I mean, this can't keep going on.

This might not seem like a big deal to most people, as in, I'm sure there are people here with bundle(s) a day heroin habits, but for me, this huge, sudden regression, its a crisis really. I can easily say that if I don't stop, I will be using heroin again, even after all of these years clean. For one, I can't afford the ridiculous price of the oxycodone pills, and for another, I will need more and more, obviously. Frankly, if I wasn't afraid of arrest, or running into someone from the recovery community I know, I probably would have NOT chased around the oxycodone pills and just bought bags of dope. I know myself, and I know with certainty that I am headed down the path towards heroin if I don't stop.....and I say that after only four days. I woke up the beast.

So, I have one 8mg Suboxone strip, and I'm going to take it tomorrow. Its D-Day. I already told my support network that I am going back on Subs, under the guise of "my cravings are too awful". I live with my boyfriend (he's in recovery too) and honestly I don't know how he hasn't realized that I've been between being high and withdrawal for the past four days. My mood has been erratic, I wake up sneezing and running to the bathroom and then am fine an hour later, I'm shocked that he's been so clueless. And at this point, I don't want to tell him (or my other major support) because then a (relatively small) laundry list of lies will come out, and I just don't want to deal with that. Also if I'm being 110% honest, there's still probably a reservation in the back of my mind that I might want to take the oxycodone pills again, like, get back on the Subs and then cheat every once in a while. Though I'm hoping that the Suboxone will get that thought outta my head. Historically, when I'm on maintenance, I'm FINE. I always stay clean.

So, I have the one 8mg strip and I'll take probably about 1/2mg tomorrow, I'll try to hold off until the afternoon because I want to make sure I don't throw myself into precipitated withdrawal, even though such a miniscule dose of Suboxone, along with my body only being dependent on oxycodone for four days, I should be fine. After that, I have an appointment with my doctor this coming week (I haven't been there in two months, that's a whole other story, but I'm fairly confident that I'll walk out with my prescription, and if I don't, I'll buy a strip or two off the street and find another doctor).

But, anyway, I'm here for support, and to support other people. Its been a long time since I've been brought to my knees in this fashion, and this has humbled me and "kept it green"' in a way that is amazing. So, lesson learned, kids, no matter how long you'd been clean or how untouchable other people think you are, even the best of us fall if we don't watch ourselves.

Any words of support or encouragement, or even acknowledgement, would be really appreciated. For now, this is where I'll be coming to be honest, and to talk. Thanks all.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:22 am 
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I'm new here too, actually my first post... and although I'm a guy. I can relate to what you are saying...


First off, to each there own... One mans 10 10'S a day habit is another's 5 bundles...

Amount is irrelevant, if it's controlling our lives, well it matters.


From an outsider reading, you want to have a little fun... And you are trying to defend it...
But u obviously know the answer... If u keep doing this your recovery will be ruined and you will let people you care about down? Is that what you want.. I'm thinking no...

Whether u choose to stay on sub is personal, but it sounds like u were used to not being on it very recently..

So my advice would be

First, smile , be happy for where u r at

taper w the sub... And go back to doing things u enjoyed in recovery...

I know for me it has also been hard when u have sub, while it is life saving... It also allows u to slip w out paying the piper... I think there is some of that in u too...

For me... Sports and sex, those are my biggest 2 things I enjoy once I'm off this garbage and when I'm on it well that's exactly what I don't do!

Well after looking at this forum for 3 years now and going back and forth between 40-66 days of sub, slipping and back on.. For some reason your post stood out for me to make my first post...

I hope u see that u r looking for something, maybe a change in your life, but the change back to the garbage... We both know that's a bad decision

Cheers


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:32 am 
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Hi Thisagain,

I'm so glad that you have found us! You are so right, you need a place that you can be honest and receive support for the situation you are in, with us knowing the full story.

We have alot of taperers here currently, and I think your story is very important for all of us here. Tapering or not, to keep in mind that it is so easy to go backwards! What you have experienced is not all that uncommon, and I think you have absolutely made the right decision to go back on suboxone. I hope that you are right about your doctor, you need them to be there for you and keep you in treatment right now.

Do you think that being on .5mg per day is enough to hold your cravings at bay? The reason I am bringing this up is because you know as well as I do that it would be too easy, being on such a low dose, to still slip with the oxy. The ideal situation would be for you to take enough for awhile to keep your levels above the ceiling so that if you did slip the oxy would have no effect.

I totally get the temptation of it, and I give you big props for being honest that this is something that you have thought about. I can understand that you may not want to tell your doctor that you have relapsed, but it would be a good idea to let them know that you have at least had thoughts about it so that you can be placed on an appropriate dose to keep this from happening.

What was the dose that you took when you were on suboxone the first time? Were you able to handle the higher dose without adverse side effects?

These are just some things to think about. Of course, whatever you decide we will support you. I wanted to respond to you and welcome you here. We have a great group of people as I know you will figure out on your own fairly quickly. I'm proud of you for doing what you have to do to get yourself back in line, and I wish you the best of luck with your recovery!

Q

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Ok Thisagain, you know what to do..getting back on track is brave and it tells me you do have recovery and something to lose.

Glad you ve reached out to this forum. We will support you!!!

And as you have said, after some years clean we can slip back.....just a week ago today,Hoffman did..
Best of luck today with your sub, and hope you find your Dr soon......and as Q stated, maybe a higher dose?...less cravings?..idk you know yourself ..... razor 55..


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:26 pm 
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Terps wrote:
Whether u choose to stay on sub is personal, but it sounds like u were used to not being on it very recently..

[.......]

It also allows u to slip w out paying the piper... I think there is some of that in u too...



Yes, I had multiple years of sobriety without any maintenance at all, but the game has changed now and I think I'm going to need the maintenance for a little bit of time at least.

And you are SO right.....it would be so easy to go back and forth between getting high and being on Subs....now I inducted myself today and as I'm building up to the dose I need to be on, I'm starting to feel back to myself, not wanting to use, my resolve is rebuilding. And I did actually confess to my boyfriend that I was using the painkillers, he had no clue. I needed to do that, to tell on myself, because that will make it less likely for me to be able to get away with it again.

Thank you so much for the support.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:32 pm 
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razor53 wrote:
Ok Thisagain, you know what to do..getting back on track is brave and it tells me you do have recovery and something to lose.

Glad you ve reached out to this forum. We will support you!!!

And as you have said, after some years clean we can slip back.....just a week ago today,Hoffman did..
Best of luck today with your sub, and hope you find your Dr soon......and as Q stated, maybe a higher dose?...less cravings?..idk you know yourself ..... razor 55..


Thank you!!! Yes, I am probably going to go on a slightly higher dose....its appearing to be necessary because of the days of full agonist use.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:03 am 
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Good to hear... After many tries at it on my own this board is my first reach out to group discussion...

Hope our paths continue in the right direction


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Terps wrote:
Good to hear... After many tries at it on my own this board is my first reach out to group discussion...

Hope our paths continue in the right direction


Awesome, welcome, and I hope so too. Today is day two for me and I'm feeling pretty good. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Just checking in....day three was rough. Going through some depression. But I'll be okay.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:54 pm 
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thanks for checking in, sorry you're feeling down today. I've been there and it'll get better I know it! keep your chin up!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Thanks....today honestly wasn't much better, LOL, but at the same time I think I also have PMDD, and its a week before my period so I'm going through that too. Depression, anxiety, irritability, cravings, etc.....but, I got through day four, I'm sure tomorrow will be better. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:26 pm 
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Today, day five, was much better. Then again it was just an overall stress-free day. Starting to feel back to my "normal" self.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:13 am 
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That's good to hear thisagain.

What dose did you decide to level out on?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:10 am 
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We're here to support you.

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No! Ex addict, been to a Rehabilitation Center in Detroit. 12 years clean now :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:39 pm 
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Thanks everyone. Today is day seven. I've struggled with some severe depression along the way, but in actuality, I don't think this had too much to do with the lapse/slip/whatever, and more to do with my hormones, blahhhhhh. Though it certainly was a trigger. Difference is that even on this small dose of Suboxone (about 1mg/day), the craving is a passing thought, my blood isn't running cold in desperation. I'm so grateful for this medication so I don't have to do it alone.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:19 pm 
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I hope you have someone to talk to when you're feeling down. You can always come here as we're proud that you're back on subs. Depression is a terrible thing and I hope it passes as your body/hormones level out. If you ever feel you need to reach out, please feel free to post or PM me. I will offer what little knowledge and support I can offer. Day 7 is a GREAT start. I hope to hear next weekend about Day 14. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:45 pm 
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Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. :) I just ordered a supplement, 5-HTP, that is supposed to help with depression a lot. Also some B vitamins. Hoping that they boost my mood. But today was a good day. Much needed reprieve. No pun intended. ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:47 pm 
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I have noticed in my own experience, that after a relapse and re-starting subs, I went through roughly week of pretty bad depression too. I think a big part of it is the chemical imbalance that we are going through, going from a agonist to a partial agonist, while some of the worst WDs (such as diarrhea, RLS, etc) don't show up, I always had the cold chills, runny nose, and depression. On top of that, when you are becoming more sober and you think about what you just did, you get down on yourself for slipping, for starting it again.... at least in my case. It was a double whammy.

Like you, I also had a bad time during one of my attempts to jump from subs at .5 MG. IT was terrible and like you I thought, at such a low dose am I even really getting any medicine? My wife being a nurse told me that at such a low dose I was just being a baby and it was all mental. Maybe, but I don't think so. Suboxone is such a powerful opiate with such a long half life that it can be rather bad even at such a low dose. But, it is way easier on you than going cold turkey from say Oxy or heroine. It's a perspective issue.

Don't beat yourself up too much about past mistakes, just learn from it and try to use that new knowledge to help you move past it.

We're here for you should need any advice or just someone to listen.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:11 pm 
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I agree. I am/was in long-term recovery and tapered of .5mg of Suboxone in the past, and even though I wasn't "SICK", I was "sick" (lower case letters, LOL). Like you said, minor annoyances, but still grates on your nerves. Last time it was mostly body temperature all over the place (chills too) and teary eyes. This time I am in a much different place....all-time high in stress at work, still getting over a long-term relationship I ended a few months ago, a few years older, and not to mention that I jumped off at about 1mg. So this time was....ROUGH. Fatigue, cravings, etc.

Its not in your head (or mine). I know the doses sound tiny, but, again, like you said, Suboxone is a potent medication!

I think part of the depression was/is a form of PAWS, also just mental stuff, but some of it I think is hormonal. I definitely have PCOS and probably PMDD. Ugh, woman problems, LOL.

Thanks for listening...day # 8 over here and going strong. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:42 pm 
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This Again,

I think that it is awesome that you are seeking help, here, and that you are trying to manage your symptoms on your own. However, remember that part of Suboxone maintenance includes psycho-social treatment: therapy, group, NA/AA...It might benefit you to enter an out patient program and start getting Suboxone through your physician. Being monitored and prescribed will give you more of a support system. It sounds like you are a strong individual. A tough cookie, but sometimes we must humble ourselves and surrender to the help of others. You are proof that suboxone works, so let it work for you again. I wish you all the best. Take care.


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