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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Well I am going to make this brief... I am a chronic pain sufferer who has spent the last 3 years going through the list of opites..started on tramadol and ended on 30mg of morpine every 3 hrs just to get through my days. Went through a cold turkey jump from high doses of percs/tramadol and ended up back with the morphine.. Then I found out I was pregnant (we had been trying for a year, had 2 losses and had finally excepted the fact that we were done having kids.) Then I was pregnant.... I instantly contacted my doctor and I was switched from Morphine to suboxone and a few days later to subutex. I was on a pretty high dose, 24mg/day. I was doing that for a few months when my doctor got fired from the clinic, I was also put on the high risk restricted program from my insurance and I no longer had a doctor that could or would prescribe the subs. I took what I had and tapered down and jumped off at 2mg/day. The first few days were fine, day 3 I ended up in the hospital because the pain was unbarable. After that point I was switched back on to percocet... and that brings me up to now.

Saturday I took my last dose of oxy at about 1pm. I couldnt get into my doctor for more until Wednesday. I had 8mg of subs and planned to get off the oxy again (which was what I was working towards but having issues with.) Figured no better time then now right... Sunday am I took 2mg, sunday night 1mg, this morning 1 mg, and then just a bit ago 1 mg. So I have 3 mg left... I plan to take 1 mg tomorrow am (tuesday) and then try to go without. I will be able to get another script for the percocet wed but I do not plan to... I am hoping by that point I will be through the major aspects of withdrawal from the oxy but with not have built up the tolerance or physical need for the subs. I hate withdrawal and the anxiety is off the charts if I even start to think I might have to go through that again..

I have been a semi-active member on another forum but most of that site is alcoholism and not a ton of experience with subs. So I was recommended this site. I am due to have my baby boy September 28th. I have had close contact with all my doctors through out my pregnancy and they more or less know everything.

Anyways in my experience subs can be used successfully to get through initial withdrawal but should not be a long term solution (Remember this is just my experience and opinion) originally I just ended up trading one dependency for another (one that was much more expensive and harded to obtain)

I think its incredible that on such a small does (2 mg) I am fully functioning, not a single withdrawal symptom from the oxy, and my chronic pain is actually not too bad. I do not feel high at all (not even a little) and I do not feel sick or groggy. I have no itch or desire to seek out pills and my mental state is clear.

However I have experienced withdrawal from subs and although in my case it wasn't quite as bad as a cold turkey jump from opiates... it was a much longer process...

So whats your experience... were subs your miracle drug that helped you get your life back? Where you on the meds for a long time? Do you think you will be on them forever? Do you think its worrysom to trade one addiction to another dependacy? Did it cause you more problems then it solved? Any other thoughts or opinions?


Thanks for your thoughts and input.

I am in a terrible hard spot right now in my life (take the meds and risk my unborn child suffering w/d after birth...aweful, terrible, guilt wrenching feelings when I think about this choice.) or (skip the meds and be in terrible aweful pain to the point where I struggle to care for my other children, my job, and myself.)

:| It just seems like I cannot win....
Thanks for your thoughts and opinions on all of this. I just started thinking about it today because I know if I didnt take that tiny bit of subs, my skin would be crawling, I would be rediculously anxious, I would be unable to focus, I would be in and out of the bathroom, I would be unwell... With just a tiny bit I am "normal."

So I am curious...what do you think ?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:02 am 
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Anyone? :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Hey Purechaos, welcome!!! Congrats on the new little guy on the way! It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, and you're trying to do what's best for you and the baby. I don't have experience with being pregnant on any of these medications, so it's hard to give you advice on that. As far as suboxone goes, I've been on it for almost 4 months now after many years of oxy/perc use. Suboxone has really changed my life and I would recommend it to anyone struggling with pain pill addiction. I'm not sure from your post if subs or subtext is an option for you. If it is, that would be your best bet I'd think. I talked to my sub doc a few months back about what the plan would be if I got pregnant, and he said switching to subutex. Is that an option with your doctor? I wish I could offer more advice. I'm not sure what the effects of pain meds like Percs would be on your baby. The best answer I can give, is to talk to your doctor and be completely honest with where you're at, and go from there. I would think they'd prescribe subutex. Good luck, you're doing a great job looking out for the baby!! I know I've read in the past that withdrawal can possibly put stress on the baby, so you're right in wanting to not go through that while pregnant. Hopefully someone with subutex while pregnant experience can offer some advice!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Also there is a category called "pregnancy and suboxone" under suboxone issues on this forum. You may find some helpful info there as well. Lots of different threads there! good luck, I wish I could be more help.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Hey... I've been on sub for six months. I loved opiates from my first taste at 16, but didn't start seeking them out and using daily until I was 25 or so. In 4 years, I went from being happily married, with a great job, making 55k a year, to planning a divorce and unemployed for six months. I wouldn't say bupe has been a miracle for me. When I first went on, I kept using - I was still at my job then and surrounded by dope and pills, literally - I had two IV heroin users working for me, and two older men with scripts within a five min drive. I was able to "borrow" money from work, so I got high for cheaper because I was able to let the pill guys borrow cash when they needed it, and they paid me back in loads and loads of pills; or I would buy bundles from the kids dealers at work, and then sell off bags to the kids because they couldn't afford the buns and I'd sell the bags cheaper than the dealers did since I was buying buns and bricks.

Once I got out of the game, I started actually trying to get better. Sub is a tool, and if you use it properly, it can make all the difference. You can use it in high doses to get the blocking effect, which gives you some time between you and the ability to get high. If you're maintained properly on 16+ mg of bupe, you can't just take it and then phone the dealer in a moment of weakness and get off. That's what helped me the most. It put some time between me and my bad decisions.

Oh yeah, and by the way, even with how cheap I was getting shit, I still managed to spend over 100k on pills and dope in the past couple years. Un-fucking-believable. I almost gave up when I couldn't find a sub dr after 16 days in rehab. My insurance stopped covering the rehab, and I was still in wds when I left as they did a 9 day sub taper on me. The next three months were unreal, I relapsed on OxyContin the day I got out and never looked back, doing sometimes over 4 bundles of h a day. I drove my car like that and I am lucky to be alive, I actually wrecked one car on a sandbar and very easily could have ended up in Lake Champlain. But New Year's Eve, I got an email from a sub dr. I drive two hours each way for my appointments, but it's worth it.

Sub buys you time. Time away from actively using, time to get counseling, time to learn how to deal with cravings, time to lose the dealers number, time to get the rest of your life in order WITHOUT trying to deal with acute wds or PAWS at the same time. So, use the time you have on sub wisely and set yourself up to succeed. Some stay on sub for life. I may end up being one of those people, nothing wrong with that. I have issues with both depression and pain that lead me to pills, and for me, sub treats those problems better than any other med or method I have tried.

Sorry for the novel here...

ALSO - very important - it is not good at all to go through wd when pregnant. It can cause serious distress to your baby. Please discuss this, and your sub regimen, with a dr. You may need more sub throughout your pregnancy, it is common, but stay closely under a doctors care please!! Do not worry about being on sub throughout your pregnancy. It is much better for the baby than wd or than using. There's about a 50% chance your baby will be born with wds, but they can take care of that, don't let it scare you. It seems to have nothing to do with the dose either (i.e. higher doses do not have a bigger likelihood for baby experiencing wd), so take what you need to be stable.

Another point, you absolutely should be on subutex and not suboxone. Doctors should always switch to subutex for pregnancy, if yours is not, you need to bring this up to your primary dr. It's all about the least amount of harm possible and there is no real reason to be ingesting naloxone.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:28 pm 
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By the way, what was the issue the first time around with the sub? You say you felt you traded one addiction for a more expensive, harder to obtain addiction. But did sub help you?

For the sake of your pregnancy you need to discuss this with a dr. They will most likely try very hard to find you a provider for subutex, as like I said earlier, withdrawal, varying doses of opiates, are all rough on the baby. You need to be on subutex and be stabilized ASAP.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Was sub a "miracle for me? Hell yes.
Has it caused more problems, no, it has no only stopped me from useing, it has opened me up to the recovery world. I world I never thought I belouged in or ever needed. I used something for 36 years. Found opiates the last four. I lost everything a man needs or worked for.my homes, toys, wife, but kept my job somehow. That was 3 1/2years ago. I owe so much to this medicine.
And that is how I SEE Suboxone. A MED. A med I may take for a loug time without a minute of guilt or shame for taking it. It saves lives, and ive seen lives lost . Lives that could have bn saved. 4 friends inthe last 6 months! And why? They had thoughts of trading one drug for another. I would ask them, "well then, how are you goingvto stop"..they stopped alright..sad..

So today, I tell those in my town, at the local rehb hospital just what sub has done for me today.
Im back home. With X wife, but she forgives me today, and im back making my money back..

This pandemic of opiate addiction needs any help we can get or use to defeat it. . One person atca time, one day at a time.

I have no limits on this .
I look at suboxone as a medicine, not a drug......


razor 56


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Well said razor, can't really add anything to that only whole heartedly agree! A medication to treat an often fatal disease.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:04 pm 
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Thanks for the insight and personal experiences. My original subs doctor was fired from my clinic... she was the only one the one that would or could for that matter prescibe the subs. (which I think is part of why she was let go but thats neither her not there) Anyways my OB cannot prescribe subs (even though I have been told any doctor can prescribe them for pain but only certain for addiction therapy- not 100% sure on the truth of that) and no one else at my clinic could get me the medicine. I had a few refills left from my doctor but when I tried to fill them I was told new insurance regulations now required pre-approval for coverage and that they couldnt verify my doctors insurance credentials or honor them so they wouldnt cover the meds. I asked if I could pay out of pocket and was told no because I am on state insurance and I shouldn't have $800 for a months supply of meds (which I don't.)

During this period of time I got a phone call from my insurance company stating that since I had been on so many controlled substance for the past 3 years they were red flagging me and putting me on limited access. Which means I can only see 1 doctor, fill at one pharmacy, go to one hospital, etc. Fine with me I was doing all that anyways.. I was never doctor shopping or doing anything funky with the pharmacys... But they then needed to assign me a new primary since my old one (the one who started me on the subs) was no longer employed for the one clinic I was authorized to go to. They assigned me to a nurse practitioner... I met with her and she told me that she didn't even feel comfortable treating me for chronic pain issues until I get my surgery after the baby was born.... So now I am kind of at a cross roads with my insurance company... I am only allowed to see one person who said to my face she is not comfortable treating my conditon (and please keep in mind this is after baby is born- my OB has me covered until that point.) And plus anytime I talk to my insurance company they treat me like I am an incompetent drug addict... The guy that is in charge of my case told me in a recent conversation to "get over it, take the opiates, and you can deal with any issues your baby has later."

I appreciate your concern about the baby and withdrawal.. I am in touch with my OB. I actually have an appt tomorrow morning.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:34 am 
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Shit... That is a mess. Is there any way to change your primary dr, or do you have to keep the one they assigned you? All in all that seems unreal to me. I know lots of people who pay out of pocket for sub. They can just get a few at a time from the pharmacy as they get money. But all in all I am just concerned about your baby. All these varying doses of opiates is not good at all. I'm curious to find out what the OB says about this.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:04 am 
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Hey PureChaos,

Youe reasoning is inline with my experience. I was on sub for 8 years and have been completely clean and sober for 2 years.

My experience was that the suboxone started off being a miracle drug (8 years 3 8/2's a day). it took away the compulsion and obsession. However I do believe something changed for me rather quickly in that my sleep patterns were disrupted to the point that I did not go into REM sleep (a feature of the drug that isn't on the label but is reported in clinical trials). As I look back now, my head wasn't as clear as I thought it was at the time (in the end people in AA/NA meetings were looking at me a bit funny)

Getting off the subs caused memory loss, dental issues, GI issues and it took a while for emotional control to return.

So,
my thought is that as an addict I am a difficult patient to deal with, however , I do not feel that I was correctly informed about what the long term consequences of the drug by my doctor nor by RB. I work in clinical trials and was amazed at what hasn't been said about the drug over the years. if I hadn't worked on a study for a new delivery mechanism for the drug and saw the effects it caused. I am sure that i would have thought my condition was caused by some other issue.

So two years later without any subs or anything else in my body except caffeine and red bull and I feel good. Many people say a lot of things touting the benefits of suboxone. I've been down that road and can tell you that I wish I had just gutted the withdrawal 8 years ago and never have taken suboxone. the withdrawal was long and brutal (over 6 weeks). I wouldn't recommend it. many will say that they are just going to use suboxone for 6 months and then get off.. I haven't seen that happen too often. what I normally see is people do what I did which is stay on it for maintenance. or relapse neither is good.

Hope this helps but feel free to ask any other questions you might have


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:40 am 
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DontPanic wrote:
.....can tell you that I wish I had just gutted the withdrawal 8 years ago and never have taken suboxone...


The only problem with something like this is that many (I would say the vast majority) of us already tried that route and failed miserably.

I was none to happy with my Suboxone wd, but I eventually came to realize during my wd that I was clean. First time in two decades that I was clean. For me, the price of admission was well worth it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:39 am 
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To mr. And mrs. Opiate user out there in the world,

Fell DAMN LUCKY the suboxone saved your ass when NOTHING else could!
Find fault I it, hate it it,
BLAME itfor anything you care too.

But the damn shit works, more than
Rehabs more than some 12 step program
More than anything else short of a true miracle! !
Thank God ....no really.


Where ever anyone is in this process, suboxone got you there...

Thank God...........raz


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Indeed razor. I'm so curious to know what happens with the OP as I truly think sub is probably the best Answer in her situation, but that's just me I guess?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:13 pm 
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For me a miricle drug. I thimk everyone's situation is unique and there isnt a correct answer for all. Does someone just taper off other opiates short term or look toward maintenance on bupe until you get your life more together and fully functional. For me I am in year 8 and down to 2mg. daily. I have a taper plan and have been dropping about 10% or so of my dose every 10 to 14 days. I have just wanted to stop but why suffer and take a chance to screw it all up. Patience is the biggest skill I've learned in recovery. Also to care about myself, without judgement on where im at now and forgive myself for the past. This can set you free! I can say that much for sure.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:15 am 
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For me its a bit complicated. Suboxone was both my miracle drug AND another problem. It did its job by taking away my cravings to use opiates and it helped me get my life back. That being said after 5 years the side effects had taken their toll on my body and relationships.

I actually have a very strange love/hate relationship with the drug, but honestly I think these feelings stem more from the way doctors prescribe it then the drug itself.

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