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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Hello all i am glad to have finally joined this forum having seen it so many times through my many suboxone questions googled over the years. Right now i find myself in a well dug hole and it seems like the way out was lost

This all began when my father passed away. I had just gotten out of hs and started college. All of my main friends had moved to a popular university about an hour away so when he passed i had very little support. I decided i needed to get out of the house and one of the few people still around town had a room to offer. Now moving in i had been occasionally been taking the vicodin left around the house to help with grief. Little did i know my friend ho i hadnt really hung out with in some time was a major opiate user. Was able to resist for some time, however this "friend" did not like the fact that he was hooked and i wasnt so more and more would shut me out of going ons around the house with other people and such, trying to really make me feel "uncool" because i wasnt using. Eventually i began small but my usage was entriely dependant on what he had so before long it was on to bigger items (oxys and the like). I enjoyed taking these pills because it really put an end to anxiety over my family troubles. Before long he ran out of oxys but offered the next intravenious step up. Fortunatley this is what ended my opiate use. I was using IV for a month before i could not take his sporadic availability to have enough to support both he and i and i just knew this was a path that would lead to nowhere. I was checked into rehab for about 4 days which in retrospect wasnt that bad.

All in all i had been going up the opiate ladder for about 9 months, with a sharp increase in the last 3 months(Heroin use in last month.).

I have now been on suboxone for 2 and 1/2 years......

When i got outta rehab the pain really wasnt to intesne however alot of pain in legs, couldnt sit still, couldnt walk around, hot/cold, nauseas etc... They had given me a little suboxone in rehab and it had just been amazing how quickly it took care of things. There was only one avail. sub doctor in my area and he could get me in for an appt in an hour (kind of odd in retrospect)

This was the begginning of the real addiction. I have recently come to realize i have the worst suboxone doctor in history. In two and a half years i have never once came up POS for an opiate via drug test yet he tests me monthly (at a fee of over 300+$). He also refuses to allow me to come in on an bi or tri monthly basis. Every month he asks the same questions, very often asking questions i answered last month and month before. It is very obvious this man is in it for the money. He has made NO attempt to ween me off, every gain i have made has been of my own accord and even that is difficult because he wont "remember" how many im at even after asking and writes me for more than i should have. I have just realized how bad it is to have this on your insurance, something no one ever told me. He just smiles and writes the script. And he wont even prescribe other things i need (just found out i have adhd and he could only give me the name of a psych to have him handle meds. And he said " well THINK about cutting down once you get everything together with that" BUT NEXT MONTH HE WILL SAY NOTHING) I am so sick of being on this awful drug but i have created a life where it all surrounds my sub use. I want to quit but i am so very afraid of that jump i know its going to be soooooo much harder than the 9 months of opiates that got me on this. Im @ 4mg - started @ 12mg. I just dont know how things got lost. Its so hard to even cut down because literally my day centers around the two times take sub because it offers some releif to the anxiety it has brought me :oops: . When i try to talk to my mom about my situation and the hell im in all she says is
well you gotta get off" like im quitting ice cream or some BS. Ive even begged her to hold on to my sub and give it to me @ certain times to cut down but she wont because she thinks ill get "cranky". I have no one i can talk to, its so hard to face the reality of my problem that i have just chosen to ignore it and continue the sub use. I know i will never use again, im a good kid inside who got mixed up with some losers who cared only for themselves and wanted company in there hell. Its just to bad that i go to the ready med because of the stomach flu, and the nurse out of nowhere scolds me and tells me repeatedly "DONT EVEN THINK YOUR GONNA GET ANY PAIN PILLS" just because i mention im taking sub. I want to quit so bad but im not going to be able to do it where i am in the life im in right now.

Im real sorry for the rant guys just it does feel good to get it out to someone. If someone could make sense of this and just give me some advice that would be so great. Thank you in advance.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:38 pm 
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I recognize some of this from my own life. Your doctor does sound terrible, and that's truly unfortunate.

Getting off sub is really hard. You're right; it's not ice cream. You're mother might be forgiven for this simple reason: people who are not opiate addicts don't understand. They just don't. If you haven't gone through that hell, you can't know what it's like. I love people who say it's "all about will power" and that addicts are "weak." Five minutes--just five minutes--of full-blown opiod withdrawal is all it would take to make anyone understand.

I hope you're able to taper off, my friend. I wish I could advise you on that, but all my efforts to get off sub over the last six years or so have been woefully unsuccessful. I'm sure someone might be able to give you some pointers on it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:19 pm 
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Hi GrnApple and welcome. Bear with me as I think I need to be very honest with you. My suggestion to you is to get stable on your sub before you even consider stopping your treatment. If I were you, I'd get down to taking it only once per day FIRST. By taking it when you feel like you "need..something" - well, that's active addiction behavior. You're self-medicating and being your own doctor. Classic addict behavior. This tells me that when you go off sub and the physical cravings return - which they will - that you'll be at risk of relapse. Get some of those behaviors under control first so that when you are truly ready to stop sub treatment, that you'll have better odds of success (success being NOT relapsing).

But try not to get angry at a little pill because you got addicted to opiates. It's just a pill. Besides, with us addicts, we're pretty much incapable of tapering off full agonist opiates, but with suboxone we actually are able to taper off it. Besides, we already had withdrawals coming to us, right?

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Oh and you do know this is a PRO-suboxone site, right?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:39 pm 
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i wouldnt beat your self up over this. i would try to get on a stable dose like hatmaker said and then once you stay on tha dose for a little you will know when its the right time to ween. i went through the same thing in terms of wanting to get off the subs really quick and there really is no easy way to do it but tapering works. i was on 12 mg and now im down to .5 every 24 hours or more.,. it took me months to get that low but if i wasnt an addict and i was on oxy for pain the tapering would have taken me just as long. anyways, follow hatmakers advice . as for the insurance, yes im paranoid and never run it through my insurance. i tell walgreens every time i fill it DO NOT RUN THIS THROUGH THE INSURANCE. we have KASPER here which is a narcotic database monitored by the DEA but i astay away from the insurance, i dont need any more judgement in terms of addiction.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:12 pm 
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GrnApple,

Welcome to the forum!!

First of all, YOU'RE ALREADY DOWN TO 4mg, that's awesome!!! You should be pretty damn proud of yourself for getting from 12mg to 4mg. Like some of the earlier posters said, try and stabilize at 4mg. Once you feel good and stable, then consider dropping your dose.

You sound like your hell bent on tapering so I'm gonna offer you this advice. TAPER SLOWLY!!! If you rush your taper you will EFF it all up real good. Once people get around the 4mg mark, we'll usually tell them to drop their dose by no more than 10% at a time.......that'd put you around 3.5mg for your next dose.

Getting to once per day dosing is a good idea too, as the others have already stated.

I think you need to take it easy on yourself about all this opiate addiction shit, it is what it is. Stop beating yourself up, take that energy and start planning your future......quit looking in the rear view man, there's nothing there but heartache. Start looking forward and make some intelligent plans on what you're gonna do from here on out.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:24 am 
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Thank you for your support so quickly and am sorry for the despondency in my original post. i am PRO SUBOXONE. You guys gotta realize though i have not yet met a person who will treat me like a normal perosn after finding out im on sub, honestly they make it seem like im a convicted rapist at best. Even my pharmacist treats me funny. Not to mention my only other friend whos on suboxone (whom i no longer see) just tricks his doc into thinking he needs a rediculous amount so that he can sell/trade his stock for benzos : ( : (. i had just returned from my doc appt when i wrote my op and was somewhat depressed about my current situation. I had mentioned three times at the appointment how i would like to begin tapering and he payed no attention to that (going to see a psych for adhd/anxiety wanted to get that straightened out before tapering) Which made no sense to me. Suboxone has been great, thinking about it after going to rehab i had immediatly tried to score because of pain but fortunatly my usual place of business was out of town and thats what had led me in the direction of getting suboxone. However i feel my time has come and sub ha done its duty and its time to find a normal life again.

I also had not taken my pm dose and have been up since 6am because i could not sleep, however once i took my am dose here i am back to normal. Right now i feel normal but lately it seems that sub only seems to do the trick for about 1-2hrs before i begin getting anxious again and awaiting 6pm to roll on through so i can take pm. Is this what you guys mean by stabilize? i am somewhat sporadic about the amount i take. I have the strips and tend to eyeball my quarters so somedays a little more some a little less. It seems over this last year sub doesnt do the same thing it used to. I had tried quitting once before by just not going to doc and working off the pill bottle full of crumbs i had saved up over the previous year but when it was time to "jump" i freaked.

If i were to switch to subutex would this make any difference?

Im on strips right now, which do you prefer?

Do you guys have trouble taking naps during the day on sub? Like times where your awake but cant move your body (its not awake yet) VERY SCARY

How do you guys deal with sleep issues at night? Do you have any?

It does feel great to have joined this forum, even though your not physically here i feel big part of this is relating to oter people in my shoes. Again, I DO NOT HATE THIS TREATMENT but at times i get very depressed over the situation i have put myself in over it. THANKS!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:38 am 
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I hear what you're saying and I understand your perspective. I very much appreciate you clarifying your position.

By getting stable, I mean that you should be taking the same dose of sub every day at the same time every day (once a day only). Suboxone has a long half life - on average 37 hours. So your dose, even at 4 mg, should last 24 hours. You should be at the point where you're taking your sub and just forgetting about it for the rest of the day. Right now, suboxone is blocking your opiate cravings. If you're having trouble not taking sub throughout the day or just wanting to take it during the day, think what would happen once you're off it and you get hit with all those cravings? I fear it would just be a relapse waiting to happen. And that scares me for you.

I honestly can't say if switching to subutex would make any difference. It really shouldn't, but different people have different experiences on suboxone, name brand Subutex, and generic versions of Subutex. Everyone is different with different meds. So you never can tell.

What I've learned from being here almost 2.5 years and watching people go off suboxone is that the people who are the most successful in getting off, staying off, and not relapsing are those who get off for the right reasons, are truly "ready" to come off it, and have done lots of work in their lives like changing bad habits, learning new coping skills, etc. Think back to your time on sub and all the extra work you have done in that time....Has it prepared you to go it alone, without the suboxone?

I hope I'm not coming off too harsh. Like I said, I only want to see you succeed. Let us know if you have more questions. We're here for you. Hang in there. :)

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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