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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:20 am 
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So I made the big plunge today and went through with something I'd been tossing around in my head the last couple months. I went to a clinic and got a prescription for Suboxone.

Since I'm a school teacher, one of my biggest worries was actually walking into a Suboxone clinic and someone recognizing me. It would come as quite a shock to some (in my mind) to see Mr. B____, the local English teacher, lined up to get a prescription for his opiate addiction. Just goes to show that addiction doesn't pick and choose whom it affects. But I overcame my ridiculous fears and went on in today.

There are actually two clinics in the small city where I live (at least  nearby). One clinic as open on Saturday, looked to be a nicer looking facility, but they don't take insurance. It would have cost $500 for the first visit, without even considering the cost of the drug itself. So I went with other clinic that did take my insurance, and I was only out 35 dollars (My prescription copay was to be $40 for the name brand strips, but the clinic gave me a discount card that took care of my copay, which was a pleasant surprise...this wasn't a one time deal...it will cover my copay each time I get the med). Being a teacher with a wife and three kids...every dollar helps for me. For those interested, the card will help those who are either pay in cash or use have insurance oyher than Medicare. The card pays up to $50.

The clinic is only open two hours (two days a week), so I was a little  curious how they handled so many patients in so little time. The answer came to me as I was shuffled through the clinice cattle at a sale barn. Though there was a thick stack of papers to sign, some of which asked detailed questions about my addiction and health history, I got the feeling I was getting a product wrapped up and sold for the masses, not for me as an individual. It is sad for me to think of those who don't have the ability to educate themselves on what it is they are taking.  Even I, after months of research on the internet, am still confused on quite a few contradictory opinions and ideals regarding Suboxone.

The clinic is located in a less than desirable part of town, and the waiting room did not exactly make one feel comfortable. It was hot, and everyone in there looked pretty miserable. I was comforted, though, by the fact that there were no familiar faces. It also gave me comfort knowing that we were all there for the same reason, and none of us had anything to hide. I could go into more detail about this experience, but I have jabbered too much already.

Long story short, I peed in a cup, the results of which I was not told. I knew coming into the clinic that there was no dispensing medication at the clinic, so there was no worry for me to stay clean for 24-48 hours. I took 40mg of hydrocodone at 7:00 the night before, so I wasn't completely miserable at the time of the appointment.

Strangely, my vitals or any other normal "clinic" methods were practiced. I went straight from peeing in a cup to talking to the doctor who was sitting behind this big beaten up wooden desk in a stale smelling office. The doctor thumbed through my file and asked basic questions about how much I was using and where I was getting it. I was in and out of his office in less than 5 minutes.

I didn't lie about my drug use, and I was prepared to share much more. I pretty much told him that I got hooked on opiate pain killers after multiple operations that required them. Also, I have had two DVT blood clots that required me to be on blood thinners, and thus not able to take most standard OTC painkillers such as naproxine or ibuprofen. I had been fed hydrocodone for years with few questions asked.  My problem is that I like the way they make me feel and have spent the past ten years trying to get my hands on enough to manage my pain and feed my addiction.

I believe it us by the grace of God that I have not found myself in a worse predicament than I currently find myself. I have never injected anything, but I suppose that would have been the next stop for me. I had been doctor and pharmacy shopping for years and I knew how to work the system pretty well. Even in my heyday though I wasn't able to get my hands on quite enough. I was always counting pills and worrying about when I would run out. I soon found myself "borrowing" from my mother and other friends. I found myself doing things I never imagined I'd be doing. Shameful things to feed my habit. My wife discovered my problem years ago as and threatened to leave me more than once. To lose her and my children would have devastated me. One would think that I would turn my back on the pills considering all I had to lose. But that was not enough to stop me. I guess if my wife didn't love me (a lot) she would have left me tears ago.

I was fine while on my hydros,though, but when I ran out and became sick from withdrawals, I was miserable. I felt misetable , and I was miserable to be around. I made and broke more promises than I can count to my wife, mother, and father, friends, and family.

I have had many of those moments of enlightenment where it became clear that I could no longer go on with this. There have been months at a  time where I was able to stay clean. But some kind of life event always drove me back to the pills. I would have a surgery or other physical problem, or life would become so stressful that I would choose to hit the exit door and insulate myself from the world around me by delving into the world of pills.

There is another component yo my story that is important to share. In 1995 I had a bad auto accident that broke several of my bones and kept me in the hospital about a week. Worse than the physical wounds, however, I found myself battling emotional wounds. By the time I turned 22 I found myself battling terrible panic attacks that marked the beginning of my struggle with chronic depression that has lasted until now (I'm now 41). I have tried. nearly every antidepressant known to man. In the end I settled good old Prozac and Klonopin. Neither of which has done a great deal to relieve my depressive symptoms. I currently take 40 mg of Prozac and 2 mg of Klonopin in the morning and 2 mg at night. No, I have never abused Klonopin in the way I have hydrocodone. I don't feel blissful on either medication. I only notice them in their absense. I have tried to quit both and have experienced hellish withdrawals with each. My sub doctor indicated that he would like to see me come off of both quickly. I understand that taking benzos with Suboxone is a dangerous combination, but quitting cold turkey, especially with the Klonopin can be equally dangerous. He said he would like to see me off of both within six months. I don't see this happening but maybe Suboxone will allow it?

Getting to my main point. I have not been drawn to opiates because of recreational use. They were, as I've written, prescribed for physical pain. But the best aspect about opiates to me was their positive effect on the symptoms of my depression. Nothing I've taken comes close to making me feel "normal" as do opiates.

Hydrocodone, oxycodone etc... do make me feel "not depressed" but they are a kind of fools gold. My body and mind quickly build up a tolerance for them, and I find myself taking more and more to feel "not depressed". So when I started reading more and more about Suboxone, I became very interested. The medicine might be able to help me break the cycle of pill addiction, and help me as a type of antidepressant.

There seem to be two opposing camps on this issue. Some believe it is ridiculous to even consider Suboxone as a long term treatment for depression. Some might say I'm making the same mistake as I did with hydrocodone...expecting a band aid to heal a much deeper disease. There others who see Suboxone as a type of synergistic agent that might be legitimate weapon to combat depression. I can understand the viewpoints from both sides, but as for me, I'm willing to at the very least give Suboxone a few days to see how it makes me feel. I can tell you this, that I can already feel the positive effects of the Suboxone on my depression. There was an initial semi state of euphoria a couple of hours after I took my first strip, but I don't exactly feel " high". I feel rather normal capable of doing things that I would ordinarily struggle with (like typing this ridiculously long post that most people won't have the patience to read!)

I'm not sure how things will go from here. I'm not sure how I will sleep tomorrow or how I will feel with my next dose. But I will say that it feels good to have some hope. I have been worrying all summer how I would be able to gut out another year in the classroom with my raging depression and addiction cycles. I don't know how it will end, but at the end of the day it is nice to be able to look back and say that I did the right thing, that I tried to make the right choice.

If any of you are interested, I will try to keep you posted on how I'm doing. I know there are many if you out there who are facing similar battles. I pray for you and me that we find answers, that we find the help that we need.
God bless you all....
John


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:18 am 
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Hey sublime..welcome to your new life.
And this great forum..
You are Not mzking a mistake trying out this med for both of your problems. I know for a fact that by Buprenorphine works for my depression. .it just does..
Its a terrible thing to become addicted to opiates. In four short years it had taken everything from me..that was 3 1/2 years ago. Today, I have so much of it back plus and understanding of just what recovery is..

My best friend in recovery here, (met him the first day at iop/clinic), is a teacher also. You two sound like bookends to me. No joke.John, he had to get off the benzos too. Dosent miss them at all. You can do it too.
Same as you, he couldnt get up in front of a classroom without his oxys..he just got married and has bn clean for 3 1/2 years . Suboxone saved his life..those that know me here understand im a PRO SUB GUY. To each his own, and this thing isca process. We dont really know where it can take us. Give sub a good honest shot.

Your clinic sounds ok. Ins taken, thats a big one. Many do not. You found a dr, great, maybe he isnt a hands on kinda guy, but so what. Most drs dont know much about this med. Lol..so your on your way.

Suboxone has let me stay Stopped. Most people can stop, at least for awhile, its the Staying Stopped thats a bitch and leads to relapse. Over an over..ive bn in your shoes. 25 to 30 pills a day..thank God im alive..
Sublime, I have to say this, you are going to need more than just sub imo..
Figure it out somehow. My guess is an addition therapist, if 12 step meetings scare you. And of course keep posting here . Lots of solid people here..

Ok, so ive rambled enough, but glad you made the jump to Subs. I do hope it works wonders for you.

What dose are you going to take. Alittle gos a loug way.
You want cravings to go away, and no wd simptoms. .this my take sometime to figure out. .
Also, please go overvand read DR JUNIGS TALKZONE. Soooooo much real facts there..

Wow, that was alot of typing..well for me...best of luck john and keep posting bud...

Razor 56....


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:39 am 
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Hey John, welcome to the forum!!

We've had several members, including our esteemed Razor55, who have taken Suboxone partly for their depression and it seems to help. We actually had a lady on here a while back who tried Suboxone solely for treating her depression, she had no addiction issues at all, but had heard through a study or something of the sort that Suboxone may help. Last I remember her updating, Suboxone was working well for her.

Also, and I'm not exactly sure of the physiology behind this, but Suboxone is not supposed to cause an ever increasing level of tolerance. I think it has something to do with the ceiling effect, but I'm really not sure. Anyhow, if Suboxone treats your depression, it should continue treating it, at the dose your at, without having to keep increasing the amount you take.

As Razor asked, I'm curious what dose you're on. Do you mind sharing?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:13 pm 
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Razor and Romeo,

Thanks for replying to my post. This is the first time I've been joined an online message board to talk about these problems of mine, so I wasn't sure what to expect. Thank you for your informative and thoughtful replies and warm welcomes.

My dosage....The doctor put me on 16 mg per day (8 at night and 8 in the morning). I was given the strips that dissolve under the tongue. Not sure if I'm doing that part right. Last night I wound up with a giant mouthful of spit, and I'm not sure how long I kept it under my tongue.

This morning awoke about an hour before my usual time to wake up. I took placed the strip under my tongue and dozed back to sleep. About thirty minutes later I awoke and most of it was dissolved. I swallowed the rest of the bitter spit (there is even a debate over
this issue on the internet....to spit or to swallow).

It is now about five hours since my last morning dose, and I definitely feel "high". It is a very similar feeling to that feeling that of taking too many hydros. Am I taking too much? I assume they start everyone at this dosage, regardless of what you take of how how big your habit is. My doctor assured me that I wouldn't feel " high". So I'm a little confused.

What do y'all think? I have read where people go against the doctor's orders and take small doses (1-2 mg) for their depression. I thought about doing this but opted to take the dose the doctor wrote. I'm already thinking of skipping tonight's dose. I really think I'm taking too much. You know that feeling you get when you don't breathe correctly? Its almost like you forget to breathe and find yourself holding your breath for a long time? I'm also finding myself nodding off (which was never a pleasant side effect for me, especially during the day.) Thankfully I don't have to be back at work until Monday.

That brings me to another question...will others know I'm on something? I haven't had too many people notice (at least they haven't told me) in the past, other than my wife that I looked high. She, though, can tell right away if I've only taken a few. She tells me I have "glassy eyes" and she notices changes in my mood. If I'm laughing and happy, she automatically asks, "How many have you taken?"

The other side effect I'm concerned about is constipation. All opiates, even if Tramadol, always give me constipation. With hydrocodone, I learned to take only the medicine at one time of day (about seven or eight), and by mid morning I was often able to go to the bathroom. But with Suboxone's long half-life and dosing twice a day, I'm a little concerned. I did purchase some Miralax and Metamucil yesterday. Any suggestions there?

Razor I think you are spot on when you said I needed something in addition to subs. Actually it's a requirement for the program I'm in to get eight hours of counsrling. I can attend AA or NA meetings or see a psychiatrist, counselor, psychologist, etc... I guess (as far as the eight hours go, I could count the time I talk to you guys. I have been thinking that I will start with NA meetings. Any pointers there?

I do know there are some reasons I'm depressed, and because of that depression I wound up addicted to painkillers. There are some issues I'm sure that gave been needing addressing for a long time. I will say that I was never abused in any way growing up. I have good parents who always provided plenty of love and direction, so I can't go blaming them. I do, however, have a brother who has schizophrenia. It is my best guess that I inherited this disease by the luck of the draw. Talking to others makes me feel better (talking to the two of you in this forum has already helped me.)

I'm not sure I answered all your questions. If you have any more please ask. I hope I can continue getting to know you both better, as well as others on this forum.
Thanks!
John


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Hey John!!

I have been an addict for about 5 years. You can read my other posts if you wish to know more of my story, I already have a tendency to ramble.

I wanted to tell you that I have fibromyalgia (so I have chronic pain), and depression. The pain is my trigger. The depression causes me to continue use. My use was so out of control that I spent over 100k in the past 2 yrs on street opiates (mainly oxycodone and heroin)!

Suboxone definitely helps my depression and pain, and I may be on it for life. Nothing else has helped my depression.

It sounds like your tolerance was low. I also was prescribed 16 mg coming off either 500+ mg oxy or 3-4 grams heroin/day. I even got that "high" feeling off my suboxone the first couple days with my tolerance! I have a feeling it is probably stronger for you though. Eventually you will adjust (likely within a week or two), or you could consider a lower dose. The reason they prescribe those high doses even if you would need much less to cover your withdrawals, is to control cravings and to create a "blocking effect" so that you cannot get high while you are in treatment. If you try to take another opiate, the suboxone will be bound to your receptors so tightly, that the other opiates will not be able to get to them. It's recommended to stay over the ceiling, around 4 mg, but I'd say the best blocking occurs in doses over 8 mgs.

Congrats on getting off the opiates! Suboxone is a great tool to use in your recovery. It will give you time to rebuild your life without being able to get high. That is a wonderful thing.

Also, benzodiazepine withdrawal can be very dangerous. Have you been on the benzo a while? You should discuss this with the dr that prescribed you the benzos. It is very common for suboxone providers to require you to be clean from benzodiazepines, but perhaps if necessary, you could do a very quick taper at the least? I'm surprised he is concerned about the Prozac as well.

And I totally get what you mean about the dr and the office, my dr is like the suboxone version of a Florida pill mill, my first visit was just like yours, no vitals or anything, actually not even a drug test. By the way, the drug test is to ensure that you DO have opiates in your system, not that you are getting suboxone either to sell or to get high off it (as I'm sure you could understand, opiate-naive individuals DO get high off suboxone). I've been going 7 months and now I don't even see him, I just check in at reception, fork over my cash (he doesn't even take credit cards, let alone insurance...), and get my script. The last time I actually saw him, on my 3rd or 4th visit, I had to specifically ask to see him, and ended up waiting two hours. They recommended I call in advance next time I need to see him at a scheduled appt. I just see it as a means to an end, I drive two hours to go there, as all the drs/clinics in my town and the only other city around here are wait listed anywhere from 6-18 months.

Good luck, ask us all the questions you've got, hope to hear more from you soon!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:07 pm 
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I agree with fullycaffeinated, I'm thinking your Sub dose is pretty high. Last I heard, RB (the makers of Sub) are telling doctors that 16mg a day is the max dose one should be getting. Unfortunately, it seems like a LOT of Sub doctors don't really understand the med too, too well.

If I were you, I'd cut back to 8mg per day. I'm not a doctor, so please take my advice with a grain of salt.

As for spit or swallow; the naloxone in Suboxone gives some people headaches, so they spit out the Subliva (love that term. lol) so the naloxone isn't absorbed by the stomach.

Constipation is an issue for many on Suboxone. Keep your fiber up and drink lots of water.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:57 pm 
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Cant really add to what Fully and Romes has said..But, I will..ha

Theresca vreat chance that 16 mgs is to high for you. Im no dr either, but have seen this many times at clinic and or beginers sub support group.
Maybe try 4mgs next orning then 4 more later in the day.
Number one thing we all want is to stop those cravings. It takes some time to get stable, and that high feeling will go away. 4 or 5 days to a full week or so.

Subliva, idk, I just glup it down zfter 15 mins..
Try this john, take the tip of your touge (sp), and scoop out the sub as it is melting and paint the entire inside of your mouth. This way your dose will e better absorbed. I find this way cuts back on subliva..

Ok, NA.. I go..bn going. Theres to much type on how that can go. Do not talk about your suboxone with them until you see how they feel about it. But give it a try. See what you think. Hope this nelps some, if ya have more questions just ask , wer here


Razor50ish....


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:27 pm 
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Oh I almost forgot, No, people wo t know your on something. When you stablize, and get that normal feeling, witch should come quickly, you will appear normal imo. Hell I do, and I see 15 to 20 people a day on a personal level.
The only indicater maybe your pupils in your eyes. I have blue, and mine were small all the time on 12 to 16 mgs. Now on 5mgs I believe there fine. It ya have brown eyes ya cant tell at all..but ya know what, Who Cares, your trying to save your life here ..so....


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:25 pm 
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One note as far as spit or swallow - for me personally, if I swallow the saliva containing the naloxone, it takes care of that constipation issue for me. Every day when I take my dose in the morning, 15-20 min later I gotta go, like clockwork. I know this doesn't happen for everyone, but I also know I'm not the only one, as others have mentioned here and there, so it's worth testing it out for a few days to see, at least.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:40 am 
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Thanks for joining the thread Fullycaff and offering your info and insight. I think you are right that my tolerance is low (relatively speaking).

I took the full 8 mg dose this morning and expected to feel loopy most of the day. Today was actually a productive day for me. Image in the process of building a utility room onto our house. I started the project at the beginning of the summer, and as usual, the project has taken longer than anticipated (which my wife has come to expect over the last couple years). I actually built our home before we got married. I have gone through times of being pretty productive, but as my depression and addiction has progressed I find it hard to complete even the most simple tasks. Depression has taken so much from me and has had me at its mercy a good portion of my adult life.

Today I felt pretty good. I didn't feel depressed today...at all. I was able to put my thoughts in order and complete tasks that I normally would struggle with. I didn't feel perfect, but I felt a lot better than I have been feeling in a while. It was a relief to not be bombarded the cycle of usual adddictive thoughts - how many pills do I have? How long will they last? What am I going to do when I run out? Instead I was able to focus on the task at hand and actually enjoy working with my hands.

It is about 10:30 and I'm hoping to get some sleep. I didn't take a nap today ( Besides pills, I have to say that sleeping is what I enjoy the most in my life. It is sad, but that what my life has fallen to. Strangely I didn't even think about taking a nap today....or taking pills. Above all it felt good to feel kind of normal. I did have thus kind of "wired" feeling, kind of like the feeling you get on the first day back from a good break. But as the day went on I felt more at ease.

As I said, I took the full dose, 8/mg tonight. I probably should have taken a half dose as I'm feeling " charged " again and a bit sick to my stomach. I have had no bowel movement in a day and a half so my suspicions about not being able to poop are true. I have been drinking a lot of water and took a dose of Mirilax and Metamucil. Hopefully I will see some kind of movement in the morning.

Sorry to bore you folks of my yarns of naps and poop...lol...but that is my report for.the day. Tomorrow I will try 4/mg in the morning and 4 at night. I am pretty sure I'm taking too high of a dose. If I am not able to go to the bathroom I may have to stop altogether. Anyone have any ideas?

It's been a long day and I hope I can get some decent sleep.

Thanks y'all for reading my posts. It means a lot. I hope I can find out more about you and your stories and not carry on about .myself so much
G'night all


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:01 am 
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Morning everyone,
John, I tried to get out ahead of this no bathroom movement.
Water, yup, but after day three, it was grapes and peaches, and plums. Worked like a charm. But I ate allt of it.
Didntvreally get better till I droped from 12 to 8 mgs, I got things working at 12, but it just became easier later.
By my second week, I had so much energy, I was looking for jobs to do around the house, and to this day im still a madman with landscaping, gardeing, anything, including my job everyday..
Anyway, have a great day, oh, and check out Dr J s vidios on u tube. I feel there are The best educational wise. Nothing he dosent cover or answer..also the q @ a forum has some info on it from back in march that might interest you...

Razor....


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:01 pm 
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If swallowing the saliva after the sub is done dissolving doesn't help you out, I'd definitely try some of those herbal senna preparations - there's a tea, or pills - before breaking out the pharmaceutical laxatives. I've never had constipation on sub, but I'm sure you can imagine that doing 500 mg or more of oxycodone... or a whole lotta dope... yes, I've had these issues before. I think sub is nothing to my body, lol.

As far as dosing, most people I know either take theirs all during the day (either one morning dose, or split between morning and late afternoon), or they take a larger dose in the morning and a smaller dose at night. Depending how high you want to dose, I'd try the latter with maybe 8 morning 4 night, or if you want to go down to 8, maybe 6 and 2. If you have the strips, they are easy to cut, or I fold mine to get halves, quarters, even eighths. I used to take 20 mg, and I did 16 morning and 4 night. Sub keeps a lot of people awake, me included, I never normally dose after 6 pm now, unless I need to stay up for some reason. You will learn with time how the doses do or don't affect you, with time they really won't effect you at all. If you really want the high blocking effect from 16 mg (if you're scared of relapse, I definitely was at first), then you can work up to that dose slowly - maybe a week at 8/day, a week at 12/day, then the 16. Any dose over 4 mg will block to some extent though, the higher the dose, the longer it will block other opiates for.

I also recommend getting counseling, joining some groups, or NA/AA - whatever works for you. Sub gives you time to focus on your recovery and build a plan to avoid relapse. But you need to put in some work too, there's no magic pill, sub seems like magic and it's damn close to it, but you need to also figure out what's causing you to use, and resolve those issues.

Don't worry about boring us, I'm sure I bore everyone too :P but that's what this place is for, to talk about our experiences, I'm already a member on another forum and felt the need to bore people more so I came here too ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:14 pm 
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Hey guys,
Thanks for the posts fully and razor. Razor, you don't happen to have your username because you are Razorbacks fan are you? Just curious because that is where I'm from, and I'm a big Razorbacks fan.

This marks the end of day three for me. I took half as much sub's today. I split my 8 mg strip in half and took four this morning and four at 7/pm. I was simply feeling too high on the bigger dose, and I feel better after coming down from that 16 mg a day. I'm thinking if coming down even further tomorrow to just taking four in the morning and none at night. Am I making a mistake in doing this? I know one should always follow doctor's orders, but wouldn't it be easier to find the right low dose now than have to come down later? Please give your honest opinion about this.

Because it has been so hard for me to get my hands on a substantial script or hydrocodone lately, my tolerance was not great when I started the subs. My ideal dose was about 50/mg of hydro per day, but my doctor pretty much cut me off, there were some pretty big gaps of time between using.

I know I'm skipping off topic here a little, but did you ever have that time when you just knew you couldn't carry on the charade anymore, that you had to make big time changes? Well that day was Monday for me. My youngest son had gotten really sick with strep, and I took him to the doctor. He was so sick that I held him out in my truck while the pharmacist got his antibiotic ready. While we were waiting in front of the pharmacy, I kept looking at the door of the fantasizing about ways I could score some hydrocodone or even some oxycodone. I thought about waiting outside for some old lady who looked like she might spare some of hers. I would give her a sob story to try a get myself a new source. I've watched on TV as people did these kinds if things. I've read on forums of people doing such things. I let my mind wander even more. Maybe I could just walk in dressed in a gorilla suit and hold the place up. Or maybe I could come back late at night with a concrete brick, smash my way through the glass door and get in and out quickly with two or three if those big white plastic bottles they pour those beautiful drugs out of?

But then I looked at myself in the rearview mirror. I was holding my son in my arms, and he was burning up and feeling terrible. I shook my head at what I saw in the mirror at what I was sure was the most spineless, self absorbed man who ever lived. The worst thing I had on my record was a couple speeding tickets over the pas ten years. But if people only knew the real me, they would be disgusted at what they saw. My mother knows a little about what I've become. She caught me more than once stealing from her stash she needed to control her serious back pain. The last time she caught me, I cried and told her I'd never do again. My hometown pharmacist knew a little about the real me, or what I'd become. She was the one who caught me doctor and pharmacy shopping to get more pills. One day last spring when I called in early to get my script filled, she was waiting for me. She scolded me like a child telling me that my name was flagged on the prescription monitoring system. She wasable to see a list of every prescription I'd had filled over the past three plus years. My PCP had gotten simar information on me and pretty much cut me off all narcotics. How did I let it get this out of control? I cared more about those pills than I did the welfare of.my own son.

So it was Monday sitting in the pharmacy parking lot that I knew I had to make a serious change. If I didn't, I would lose it all. I had been debating on whether I should go on Suboxone, but it was then I knew that I couldn't fool around any longer. I had to get help.

It is true that I was prescribed those pills at one time for legitimate reasons. It is true that the hydro's were the only thing that I felt truly lifted my depression. But it was up to me to be a man and make some decisions that would help.turn my life in a positive direction instead of careening down this destructive path. So it was on that day, Monday, that I decided I would go in and start with Suboxone.

So anyways I felt I needed to share that about myself. So back to where I am now... I haven't had a single urge to use since I started the Suboxone, so that is good. I am having some trouble with the side effects. I haven't come close to having a bowel movement since Wednesday. Razor I took your advice and went by the the grocery store today and bought some fruit...grapes, prunes, and plums. I started on those today, so I pray they will help. The last two days I've taken Metamucil and Miralax. I have been drinking a minimum of eight glasses of water. So maybe that will help. For some reason my bowels pretty much shut down if I take any amount of opiates. If I don't find a solution to this problem, I don't see how I'll be able to continue taking Suboxone. I pray that I find something that works. I hate the thought of going back to cold turkey. A year or so ago when I was taking massive quantities of hydrocodone, and I was severely constipated. I used some type of glycerol suppositories that my wife had. Those things worked like a charm, so I might need to try to get some of those.

FullyCaff, I think you are are onto something about what time of day I take my sub's. If I take a dose in the morning only, then that might help my bowel problems as well as my sleeping problems. I only got a couple hours sleep last night because I continue to have that wired up feeling that makes it hard to sleep. I have also cut my Klonopin dose in half, from 4 mg to 2. This is bound to have some bearing on my ability to sleep. I have been on Klonopin for over 15 years now. That and Prozac, both of which my sub doctor wants me to come off of within six weeks. That seems a tall order since my body has gotten so used to taking those medicines. Maybe I will have to taper slower? I'm not sure my sub doctor realizes how hard it is to come off of benzos that quickly. Hopefully he'll be understanding if my body doesn't cooperate.

I hope and pray you are doing well tonight. Thank you for listening to me and offering good advice. Fully, I agree that I need to find a counselor and AA or NA meetings to attend. Hopefully my body will feel stabilized soon and getting out will be a little easier. I'll be back to school on Monday. I should have tackled this earlier in the summer to give myself more time to acclimate to the sub's. But better late to than never, right?

In addition to the monthly meetings at the sub doc, it is required that I attend 8/hours a month at AA or NA meetings or meet with an addiction counselor. It is about a 30 mile drive for me one way to the clinic and any type of addiction counselors. I know it will be good for me, but I'm concerned how I'll be able to miss that much time at work. I live and work in a very rural area. This is something by have to do though. There is no turning back now.
Again, thanks for.listening!
John


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:46 pm 
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John, I have so much to say about your last post, but ive gotvto getvto sleep. Just checked the forum andcsaw your post..will post back in the am..glad you feel better on the 4 an 4 .maybectry 3 an 3 tomarrow.

Ttyl.raz....


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:10 am 
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Hi John!

Thanks for sharing your turn around moment with us. Mine was on a Thursday in September of 2011. I had run out of my percocet script (early again) and was starting to go into withdrawal. I was perscribed 240 10mg of oxycodone/apap every month, but it wasn't enough. There was never enough. I had quite a bit of tramadol laying around, so I would take it when I ran out of oxy. It didn't get me high, but it kept me from being sick. However, the previous month I had complained to the doctor that when I took tramadol my heart would beat really hard and fast. It was disconcerting to say the least.

So there I was, sick, pathetic, in withdrawal, my husband was on a week long mission trip to South Dakota. I had broken down the day before and requested help from my cousin's son. I was fairly sure that my cousin's son would know a dealer because he was always high. It turned out that he was dealing himself! I had said I would NEVER buy drugs off the street. I would steal from peoples's medicine cabinets, but I had drawn the line at buying illegally. (Don't ask me why!)

I took stock of myself while I lay there feeling awful. I was hating the fact that I had crossed a line I had said I wouldn't cross. I wondered what else I would do that I said I wouldn't . It gets easier to do after doing it before. Would I bankrupt my family and spend my son's college money? Would my husband divorce me? Would I get pulled over and charged with DUI? The other questions I asked myself were related to my intentions for my life. Is this the type of wife and mother my family deserved??? That's when I let the shame that I had been avoiding come down hard and hit me. This wasn't the Amy that God intended me to be! Before I could stop myself I called a close friend and blurted out that I was an addict. I was in trouble. I needed help. She left her work and came to me right away. I called another friend who worked in my prescribing doctor's office and told her to tell my doctor that I was a fraud and a liar. She came to my house later with materials about rehabs and addiction doctors

I have to challenge you about giving up on sub to combat constipation. Since all opiates do this to you, why would you stop sub only to relapse on hydrocodone? Find a way! Get those glycerin suppositories! You owe it to yourself to give your recovery a real shot!

I want to say good luck and keep us postedd!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:18 pm 
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I started typing a reply stating that I have done a lot of the shit that you guys stopped before doing... but it quickly got quite lengthy, so I will post it on my own thread if anyone really wants to read it, as not to hijack this thread from the OP.

I am concerned that your dr wants you off Prozac as well, my primary dr just started me on Lexapro and Ambien, and I'm concerned now that my sub dr may not be ok with that? I only had thought about benzos as a potential issue in the past.

Re dosing, 4 mg may be enough for you, but be careful, as 4 mg is hovering right around the ceiling, depending on the person. It is a good idea to keep your dose above the ceiling, because that is what keeps you from feeling your dose once you are stabilized. Keeping your dose above the ceiling also prevents cravings. For that reason, I would stay above 4 mg. The ceiling can vary from person to person, so 4 mg may be an ok dose for you, but if you find yourself craving, I'd bump it up to 6 mg. I think 4 mg morning and 2 in the late afternoon early evening might be good for you.

If the glycerine suppositories helped before, they should help now, opiates are opiates as far as constipation goes, no reason something that worked before wouldn't now.

And here I will just say that I have had many of those moments where I have felt like the dirtiest scumbag to ever grace the earth... never even came close to stopping me from getting high... be glad that you were able to see the situation for what it is and stop!! It doesn't make you a bad person... It just means you have the potential to do bad things if you should ever start using again... Memories like that are what stop me from relapse, most of the time at least...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Today was a rough day for me. I have very little energy, and I know part of it has to do with not sleeping. My wife nudges me all night long to see if I'm breathing. Apparently I've had quite a bit of sleep apnea type behavior at night. I snore badly and make, according to my wife, these scary grunting type noises. By 5 a.m. I felt like I'd been through the wringer. I traded places with my son in his room and was able to get a few hours of sleep. It scares me to think that my taking Klonopin in conjunction with the Suboxone that is causing breathing problems. The more I read about the combination of the two is a dangerous and sometimes deadly combination. It is good that I cut back on yhe Klonopin. Maybe I can get all the way of. Like you, Fully, I don't see how my Prozac would be bad. For right now I'm not changing my dose on it.

I have been gradually bringing my dose down on Suboxone. This morning at 7 I took 2g, then 2 at about 2:00 p.m. I'm taking Fully's advice and avoiding taking a dosage near bedtime. I feel tonight like I might be able to sleep soundly...not this light sleep where I jump every time a mouse farts.

I went and got some Fleet glycerin suppositories today. Eureka, they worked! I have won a battle but the war is still yet it fight on my constipation. My thinking now is that it will be a combination of staying on a lower dose of sub's, eating a healthy diet, and exercising.

Someone asked me how I was able to take hydrocodone if I was bothered so much by constipation. With hydro's the half life is much shorter than sub's, and I would wait about 24 hours between doses. This allowed my bowels to get back up and working, long enough for me to unclog them.

I'm honestly concerned about the multiple side effects of Suboxone. I honestly had this idea of a drug that was going to help give me this wonderful mental energy. But what I've discovered is that I get mental energy, well..enough energy that my brain doesn't want to shut down and get rest. If I try to something like type or read on this forum,I fond myself dizzy and exhausted but I can't get quality sleep.

I have read more about Suboxone in other forums, and there are people having serious trouble with it. Many are not able to have any kind of sex life. I got to be honest, the way I feel now, it would be a miracle if I was able to even get an erection. The good news is that I haven't even been tempted to use my drug of choice lately (I've been too stoned on Suboxone!!!!)

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer! I will try 2 mg in the morning of sub's and see what that does to me.

Oh, and Amy, thanks for joining the thread and sharing your story. There seem to be some quality people on here ;)
G'night all
John


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:50 am 
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I think your feeling tired becuze you are slowly detoxing. They way your taking your doses now is how they use sub for detox. 16 to 8 8 to 4 then 4 to 2. Thats what im reading here.
For me, I started on 12 . Tuesday I just a pill poppin addict, weds nite I took my first 4 mgs. Thursday I moved to 8, and so on. I reach a point where a stablize.
The last two weeks of my active addiction, id tapered myself down to around 50 to 80 migs of oxy. This is after 4 years of becoming a monster to everyone who loved or cared about me. I lost everything to this damn addiction. And hurt the one person who NEVER fucked me over.
Talk about betrayal. Houses gone, money , all the retirement, investments, ..ill be working the rest of my life becuz of the choises ive made. I could give you zll the stories, but there no different than anyone elses who has bn caught in this.. We all become selfish, an uncareing. Its all about us, and the opiates..my poor x wife...

Everyone has bottoms, some deeper than others. But now it really dosent matter. Wecare fighting arecway back. We have a great chance now.

Sub has takin my cravings away. No WD. No depress. I dont drink any louger. Im amazed.
This is what happened to me.
I urge you to look at Dr junigs talkzone and utube vids sublime.

Glad sub has stopped your cravins, its great. That is what it is supposed to do.
Sub always gets me going, on the right dose. Wish I knew what dose would really work for you. You will find it.
Is sub perfect, no, no med is. They all havecside effects. But sub made me stop, and stayed stopped..3 1/2 years clean.
Guilt and shame couldnt.

I got the wife back, an the house, life turned around. I have purpose.
That more than anything is whatca recoving addict needs, purpose.
And you have that, family, great job, alot to recovery to.
Talk with your dr too, ask him why you have to stop the Lexapro. Stopping the benzos is a good idea. Taper . 4 to 2mgs isca good jump.
I guess what im trying to say here is to give yourself a good chance here. And dont be afraid. I may be reading you wroug but I sence a little dought, an unsureness of this .
I understand. Thing is my 2nd day on subs I felt great. Not everybody does right away. It does take a few days on the same dose to stablize.

Idk, hope tomarrow is better man.

Razor..

Oh, and no, not a Razorback fan

W.V.U..MOUNTAINEERS...
aka..suboxonetown....
Big clinic here.lol


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:17 am 
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Razor,
You are wise. I count myself blessed to have gained your acquaintance on here. I will write more tomorrow. I woke up at 2:00 a.m. and was in actual deep sleep. I read your post and am moved by what you wrote. I wrie more tomorrow. Good night my friend...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:57 pm 
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Sublime just wanted to drop by and say congrats on starting your new life. I remember barely being to look in the rear view mirror of the car, I felt such shame about everything I was doing.

I'm one year on Subs in a couple of weeks, and please just remember the first 2-3 weeks will be a transition for you. Let the Subs take over, let your body adjust to them, and soon you'll feel....well normal. It's hard to imagine I know, but it's coming.


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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